Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[Cape90]

okay @hollowkatt re your tinfoil on rask, look at this sequence and tell me its w/w/w, that rask chooses to bump heads with two wolfmates simultaneously and be pretty aggro like this. just no, rask lock v

I can't believe I'm HK now.

Okay I was missing the context of Rask talking about Monster's willingness to AtE at 2 votes comment thing there

[katze]

i don't know why but cape coming in and being like "yeah i know im not villagery and you tunneling me might just come from a tunneled villager" feels really alignment indicative of cape

my first impression is to check the hydra game i wolfed against him and see how he reacted to iirc similarish pressure there but that game is really long and im p sure even capes iso is probably nearing a thousand posts

i wanna say he was more prone to fight back those reads in that game tho

shrugze

[Cape90]

okay i think i got what i wanted out of that


rask is my top town

i had a few points pro sleep in my reread of day 1 but i think ive been the most lenient towards sleep so if in f3 situation id dive deep into their iso again and stuff, but not until then.

hollowkatt probably just town but will be in f3 (get rekt son)

katze looks decent actually from how theyve approached the day, has a big focus on newcomb and the interactions just seem to be like, digging into stuff in a genuine way. ender interactions really looks like ender tries to pocket kat with focus on persuading kat of stuff in situations that dont make sense for a w/w pairing. but also #thefear


-----gap-----------

i think enders parked vote on cape d2 can legit be a oh no i voted a teammate up for contention and if i change my vote itll be obvious.

i think ender's comment in his readslist on cuth is actually a good look for cuth.


but cuths vote on ladd d1 can definitely be a wolf vote since, it was vote nr 2 and then ladd got 3 votes last minute. but ladd was pr so hm weh.


cuth has some wolfy posts slash some hmthonk opinions early on especially in hindsight with the flips. cuth played it really similarly to the haunted by slep game that i linked, where theres a "doomed teammate" but ladd was less so than mr i feel like, maybe.

cape just, looks by far the worst with the flipped wolf interactions though.

i do agree with some others that cape posting in bursts is a decent look, but honestly something ive done as well to avoid wolffatigue. theres also a readslist that looks alright but i think in hindsight i dont want to give it too much cred since ender was always the deep one among those 3

and the thing where ender wrote a list of 14 names and cape was the one missing is.... weh lol weh lol weh



I am very doubtful i'll vote someone other than cape today. if it's not cape it's cuth


if it's neither have fun in f3


Vote: Cape90

You do have 1 good point here

I do kinda have fatigue :p

Since the mash I 600+ posted in, like that was exhausting. I'm sure sleep over there who endgamed with me is even more burnt LMAO.

BTW never consider Sleep in final 3, my advice is if you or sleep make it to final 3, other 2 people should vote each other.

I have no idea what mafia is doing if both you and sleep make it to there, but if so, then you tinfioil

[katze]

cuth showing up and doing basically nothing is also a thing that i want to pretend didn't happen but kinda does highlight the concern people are having with his activity drops in a neon red "hey fucko they might be onto something" way

although uh

a) this post made me smile the rest of it not this quote specifically

b) wolf claim???

i'm staring at this post and trying to comprehend what you think is wolfclaimy from me there cause im no stranger to claiming mafia and had exactly zero intent of doing so that post lmao

[katze]

nah i basically signed radish's death warrant there

stuff had been shifting in his direction for a while and i knew i needed to bus exactly there to have any chance of wolves winning the game

there were like seven villagers that were pretty much clear just by posting d1

it was not conducive to wolves winning

i wasn't like guaranteed radishes will die but it was clear he wasn't going to last and it was clear mac wasn't going to last at that point either and i felt like given a cop i had to do that there to just make it possible to endgame period given threadstate

i do kinda wonder like

this is a post that... makes cuth look worse objectively, because part of my evaluation of that game was that he didn't think MR would go over and comparing his EoD1 in that game to this one and him admitting he was basically willing to sign the death warrant in cold blood for his own positioning is... hm. at EoD1 i feel like in a w!cuth world it wouldn't be impossible that he assumes he's going to be the last wolf alive so... maaaaybe it was a "read the room" thing, especially since cuth himself was a wagon in contention at that EoD?

gonna reread the slep d1 again and check for something specific

[katze]

oh that post kinda turned into a tangent but i was thinking "does w!cuth shoot himself in the foot and say that and this honesty comes from v!cuth"

to which i say "fuck if i know i've seen wolves be honest to a fault and have been that wolf before" and iirc last time i had this kinda read it was wrong so maybe its just a bad one :p

[Dobby]

First of all:

Sleep is probably town. There is a minor assumption that probably isn't good but the nitpicky right off the bat is kinda rand!town IMO and I've just liked their content overall.

It was a fun wagon at the start and the memes were great, but honestly like I would not vote there any time soon.

On the other hand, I have reasons to believe this might be Cape's towngame. Or at least that he does several of the things he's being poked about as both alignments. I recently sussed them hard for a similar game and they were green that game.

Caveat that I haven't actually read a wolf game of theirs.

Oh also, Katze is town too. Lots of good head noddy posts from em. The snarky response about voting them out to Ladd was a meme about lyrical composition.

i lied im lurking

but yeah this post about kat was the post before that readslist (also i thought this was a 15er so someone else is prolly missing too)


yeah this other post im quoting exists too and i only read sleep there but youre in it too so my b (but its still the same read that ive pointed out a few times)

[Cape90]

i don't know why but cape coming in and being like "yeah i know im not villagery and you tunneling me might just come from a tunneled villager" feels really alignment indicative of cape

my first impression is to check the hydra game i wolfed against him and see how he reacted to iirc similarish pressure there but that game is really long and im p sure even capes iso is probably nearing a thousand posts

i wanna say he was more prone to fight back those reads in that game tho

shrugze

That game did not feel like we had home advantage. Even when wolves died because I was suspecting that last wolf was extremely deep and hard to find.

I was right and also I got the closest to sniffing out the last wolf, but nobody would listen anyways.

Not to mention that I kinda thrive in games with a lot of that... I guess, stimulation and all that going on. It helps with this sort of investment I have. Doesn't help my laptop is dead on battery rn. Also didn't help when I was thinking that I was overthinking things and it was just Monty, so why bother having WIM?

It's different now but I been kinda on the road this entire game day.

There was a lot to fight back against in those games because there was a lot to fight back against. Like that game, I didn't really follow where the suspicion on me was coming from, I think it was a really towny game from me.

This game is different and it's like, I can see where the sus is coming from, I think that town can solve with me gone, it will kinda be a waste but I feel like there are towniest with a better grasp on things then I do right now.
I didn't feel this way with the Hydra game as I was highly opinionated there

[Cape90]

i think monstr might be in the category of people who approach mafia in a similar enough way to me as wolves in particular that i have a hard time actually figuring him out

i don't know who else is in that category off the top of my head but monstr is that's for sure

I don't know if I hold to the belief that this is not w/w

But

I also feel like it is pretty strange to just compare yourself to your own wolf partner like this.

[katze]

ok re-rereading d1 of slep and i feel like cuth knew he was going to be the F3 wolf from really early on just based off of how he's interacting with mac/MR

like it's only post 600 and



kinda wondering why he picked those two names to be wolf with him but thats not relevant :wowee:

benneh

ender
katze
sunbae

monstr

cape
hk but this read is from early d1
newc

roro
sleep
zack

ladd

csargo

monty
winston

rask

and if you're saying to yourself "gee four orgers on the bottom of that list" guess what i've been saying to myself for the last like 24 hours too

alphabetical within tiers as always

this list is kinda sticking with me

gth it doesnt come from a place with TMI but like

exactly the center is still alive and if he's a wolf then the bottom of his list is still all villagers + ladd so meh

probably can't ride the "too wack to be a wolf" when it's still effective at agenda just in a roundabout way

i don't think cuth makes that list if he's expecting to be an endgaming wolf unless he's really banking off of like, refuge in audacity + ladd being ladd + ladd being a "PR", the last of which being an argument that really doesn't hold much merit when you consider what the wolf PRs do in this setup... but people have been throwing around ladd spew as "this is wolf PR" and not "this is one of the best players on the already stacked playerlist as both alignments" like i have so :wowee:

[katze]

okay ive looked at that list like 4 times and just realized rask is at the very very bottom of it

[katze]

I don't know if I hold to the belief that this is not w/w

But

I also feel like it is pretty strange to just compare yourself to your own wolf partner like this.

it's certainly a unique read if w/w

if i preflip cuth w and look at it i'd say it's like

'the top line is probably actually true and an observation cuth has made prior to this game and the bottom line gives him leeway to be wrong there' which doesn't feel impossible

if you/cuth/me/sleep are all town who do you think the last wolf is?

[katze]

idk who im voting rn but im hedging real hard in my head rn so im assuming i'd not agree with whoever it is

vote:unvote

gonna take a short break, i think i have a lean in one direction but it is a lot less confident than id like it to be

[Dobby]

it's certainly a unique read if w/w

if i preflip cuth w and look at it i'd say it's like

'the top line is probably actually true and an observation cuth has made prior to this game and the bottom line gives him leeway to be wrong there' which doesn't feel impossible

if you/cuth/me/sleep are all town who do you think the last wolf is?

can you just explain a little how your opinion slash thoughts on cape has change the last 40 hours

[Cuthillius]

cuth showing up and doing basically nothing is also a thing that i want to pretend didn't happen but kinda does highlight the concern people are having with his activity drops in a neon red "hey fucko they might be onto something" way

although uh



i'm staring at this post and trying to comprehend what you think is wolfclaimy from me there cause im no stranger to claiming mafia and had exactly zero intent of doing so that post lmao

ask gira or dobby about my ability to sustain wim to the degree necessary to get a win and come back to me

also it was a joke you were saying the game in which i was a wolf sounded more like the way you post than i normally do feel free to disregard

[Cuthillius]

i do kinda wonder like

this is a post that... makes cuth look worse objectively, because part of my evaluation of that game was that he didn't think MR would go over and comparing his EoD1 in that game to this one and him admitting he was basically willing to sign the death warrant in cold blood for his own positioning is... hm. at EoD1 i feel like in a w!cuth world it wouldn't be impossible that he assumes he's going to be the last wolf alive so... maaaaybe it was a "read the room" thing, especially since cuth himself was a wagon in contention at that EoD?

gonna reread the slep d1 again and check for something specific

no i hundred percent did expect him to probably die there

and i voted him earlier on in the phase and then quickly unvoted to set it up in a way that would be believable

but again there are a lot of very specific things about that setup that made me do it that way, i don't know if i could have won without doing so but it would have been a lot harder

a) there was a cop, and it was a 15er mountainous (which is already townsided in a good playerlist) but WITH A COP

b) in exchange for this there was wolf teammate picking mechanic, but both of my teammates were already pretty widely suspected by eod1 and again like literally half the game had effectively posted themselves clear (even if we killed them later on because we ran out of people who weren't clear off their posts lol)

as such i felt bussing was kinda necessary to both bolster my status mechanically with respect to the burgeoning towncore and also avoid being peeked by the cop for at least a couple phases

and it was a bit overkill so i had to let the cop get a second peek to make sure i could make it to f3 without it looking weird

but i was the only one who was ever gonna endgame by that point

[Cuthillius]

kinda wondering why he picked those two names to be wolf with him but thats not relevant :wowee:

i remembered them both being champs people and somewhat respected and didn't really wanna outlevel myself by picking other people

so i picked people i thought were competent and had some ties to community but who i wasn't really connected to

feel pretty bad about how it went down in retrospect but what can you do

[Cuthillius]

Also im pretty sure that like 5 different people squinted at me already so I don't think the spicy gif is a valid gif. Gonna have to give you a meme demerit. This is your first, if you receive 3 demerits I'll be forced to give you a meme citation. Five citations, and you're looking at a violation. Four of those, and you'll receive a verbal warning. Keep it up, and you're looking at a written warning. Two of those, that will land you in a world of hurt, in the form of a disciplinary review, written up by me, and placed on the desk of my immediate superior, Bronana from the Syndicate.

sunbae i didn't vocally appreciate this post as much as it deserved at the time

[Raskolnikov]

Sup friendos. Got no time this week end but should be around the last 3 hours of the day. I had some thoughts overnight but want to read first.

[Cuthillius]

hey gira could you do me a favor and order this list from v->w

Cape90
cuthillius
katze
Raskolnikov
roro__b
Sleephollowkatt

[Cuthillius]

i feel like this game has been high turbulence while being stacked sorry i'm being too cuthy again let me pause and think how to phrase this

it feels like

even though things were all over the place d1 the wolves weren't really able to take much advantage of that and even the flipped ones just seem like they're being pretty distancey and not idk feeling like they can take advantage of the town being as divided as they are?

[Cuthillius]

sunbae i was reading this post and reflecting on the fact that your existence is a blessing

[katze]

can you just explain a little how your opinion slash thoughts on cape has change the last 40 hours

uhhh it's been a combination of "cape kinda moving up" and "cuth moving down"

fwiw im still currently leaning on cape being the wolf but when i wrote that post one of his posts gave me a lot of pause

There was a lot to fight back against in those games because there was a lot to fight back against. Like that game, I didn't really follow where the suspicion on me was coming from, I think it was a really towny game from me.

This game is different and it's like, I can see where the sus is coming from, I think that town can solve with me gone, it will kinda be a waste but I feel like there are towniest with a better grasp on things then I do right now.
I didn't feel this way with the Hydra game as I was highly opinionated there

like... i read this post and my impression is "this is exactly the perspective i think v!cape would have, maybe he is just having a really lacking game and i need to evaluate the perspective more than the content"

and then i kinda short circuited and left thread and now im back and im still kinda thinking about it but i'm also not sure what his actual perspective wrt the last wolf is because his last few posts are like. he doesn't seem to think it's cuth. or sleep. or me? so does he think it's you/hk? does he think it's raskol? i guess he's kinda hedging on cuth so my mental model of cape rn is thinking that it's prob cuth but with low confidence?

idk i was hoping he'd answer my question before i answered yours because the ambiguity of his perspective is... not inherently wolfy but it's easy for my brain to see as such

[katze]

ask gira or dobby about my ability to sustain wim to the degree necessary to get a win and come back to me

also it was a joke you were saying the game in which i was a wolf sounded more like the way you post than i normally do feel free to disregard

fwiw im fully aware that you're capable of wimming it up as a wolf (im the same way and i almost joked earlier that dobby outposting me is clearing for me) but it doesn't mean that i'm going to not point it out ykno

also fair enough, i think it's just a 2020 cuth thing because you didn't sound as katzey in the SK game from what i saw unfortunately or i'd just read you like you're me

[katze]

sunbae i was reading this post and reflecting on the fact that your existence is a blessing

agreed, we stan sunbae in this house

i am biased because he called me cool

[katze]

hey gira could you do me a favor and order this list from v->w

Cape90
cuthillius
katze
Raskolnikov
roro__b
Sleephollowkatt

also i just realized what this post is and lmao

i feel like this game has been high turbulence while being stacked sorry i'm being too cuthy again let me pause and think how to phrase this

it feels like

even though things were all over the place d1 the wolves weren't really able to take much advantage of that and even the flipped ones just seem like they're being pretty distancey and not idk feeling like they can take advantage of the town being as divided as they are?

what do you think this means for the players in this mafia game and their alignments

[Cuthillius]

ok so

i just spent the last hour reading from the start

and

hk is just v

he dunks on wolf after wolf

the wolves are all distancing like mad

sleep also

and in particular the sequence when he absolutely dunks on cape

i acknowledge that cape isn't flipped

but in perspective of ender stuff i think it's like

chill sorry my brain is absolutely fried

but cape like v-reads sleep for. not w-reading ender but saying that someone else had a way more believable take on the ender post cape called "weird" (before immediately v-reading him for unclear reasons)

this post is hilarious

basically

dobby and katze just feel super believable

and i have felt this and i think there are probably concrete things i could find if i read the whole game but there have been stretches where they just feel villagery

and

looking back at the cape stuff when i was initially v-reading it looks not so great esp with the perspective on overall wolf strategy

so i feel pretty ok with going there today

and very confident on sleep/hk v

so yee

vote: cape

[Cuthillius]

fwiw im fully aware that you're capable of wimming it up as a wolf (im the same way and i almost joked earlier that dobby outposting me is clearing for me) but it doesn't mean that i'm going to not point it out ykno

also fair enough, i think it's just a 2020 cuth thing because you didn't sound as katzey in the SK game from what i saw unfortunately or i'd just read you like you're me

no i think it's more that my engagement level across this game (including d1 to some extent actually) kinda points to my not being wolf rather than a thing of like i could as wolf

also on that point i've barely played this game i am realizing looking at d1

like i know i was tired and out of touch but i REALLY was both of those things and i'm not reading any more but i know i haven't been better

so i appreciate your patience with me

[katze]

why is it now that im softening up on cape that everyone else is like "oh its obviously cape and katze was a genius all along" help

[Cuthillius]

also i just realized what this post is and lmao



what do you think this means for the players in this mafia game and their alignments

for a specific example of how it's relevant

i was looking back at my interaction with ender and thinking about how his like acting stubborn about bad read wrt sunbae stuff actually kinda makes sense if he's trying to dig in and get sunbae to reasses like a me/monstr dichotomy or explain it because upon explanation it will be clear that it's less polarized than sunbae initially explained it and thus like balance out the me/monstr unalign/reads which is only beneficial for wolves

but i wasn't considering it from that perspective because i didn't think the wolves were likely to be cannibalizing as much as it seems like they really were