Casual december game

[Renata]

Migraine-y still but here to see for EOD.

Waiting to see if Taffy brings anything before death.

(Raskol pls give me updated vote-count when you can.)

@Raskolnikov

[Renata]

I am too tired to think anymore. I wish I could do more, read more things, but it's not possible. Good luck everybody.

[Totally not Taffy]

Vote: Taffy

Sorry friend, but you have been wolfsiding.

Talk to me about your viewpoint please.

I believe Renata is a wolf. There's a chance Boquise is also a wolf, especially if I'm right about Renata - except that their posts today give me pause

renata, why is it that you are focusing on my low-hanging fruit posts and not the posts where i have answered your questions and critique tbh?

...as well as p2525, but otoh their exchanges could be some very good distancing, they sort of go from bouncing ideas off of each other to scumreading eachother back and forth.

I have residual tinfoil about you, because you've been paying me compliments this game and it's not what you usually do as either alignment - in fact, fmpov it always looks like you have a rather low opinion of me as a player, so it all reads like



Other than that it no longer matters - either I'm right and hopefully Renata flips wolf today or I endorse getting rid of me before LyLo.

Kage I need a read on.

Can people gimme thoughts on Kage?

Wolves at this point of the game shouldn't have such low investment. It's not solid evidence obviously but he doesn't fit with what a wolf should look like atm, and he very much fits as a delectable misyeet.

[Totally not Taffy]

Taffy, read my explanation. I messed up. If you're a wolf it's not because of day one. I haven't been able to look at day two yet. Consider voting Boquise with me.

I actually have no idea what the current votecount is, and I have 1,5 page to go.

[EnderWiggin]

in fact, fmpov it always looks like you have a rather low opinion of me as a player, so it all reads like

Okay, I will say this:

This is just wrong.

I consider you to be one of the more thoughtful players I play with, and I've been trying harder to read you better because I've misyeeted you way too many times as town.

I do think you're overly paranoid of me but also like, I kinda understand that after what you've seen me do =P

[EnderWiggin]

(Feel free to ask me after the game and I'll say the same thing. I definitely like seeing you sign up to games I'm in ^^)

[Totally not Taffy]

Okay, I will say this:

This is just wrong.

I consider you to be one of the more thoughtful players I play with, and I've been trying harder to read you better because I've misyeeted you way too many times as town.

I do think you're overly paranoid of me but also like, I kinda understand that after what you've seen me do =P

It's an unbelievably awful read to make on my part. If you're town then I'm an ungrateful asshole, or you're a wolf and it's correct which is just sad. Either way I lose.

[hollowkatt]

The contradiction Monty pointed out in Dyachei's reads on Ladd was a very convincing argument for them being a wolf, and not something someone else was likely to point out yesterday. That's some heavy commitment to the bus there, when he could have put that energy into pushing me (or anybody else).

hai taffy thanks that makes sense

got a solve?

[EnderWiggin]

I'm probably changing off Taffy.

I've been forcing some rereading through the pain and I am reminded why I had them town in the first place.

Thinking.

[EnderWiggin]

It's an unbelievably awful read to make on my part. If you're town then I'm an ungrateful asshole, or you're a wolf and it's correct which is just sad. Either way I lose.

It's not that bad of a read friend.

I have explicitly been trying to bolster you because I see you not believe in yourself a lot, so you're not wrong that I've been talking you up more.

Talk about your solve though, I wanna be sure I'm right if I swap off you and want your thoughts on my page.

[EnderWiggin]

Vote: Renata

Not 100% my vote, just still ruminating

[EnderWiggin]

Tell me about Dyachei because until you said this I thinking she fit into many possible scumteams.

This post specifically on D2 feels like not something a scum-mate would point out when someone very POE at the time said Dya was town.

[EnderWiggin]

What is Dyachei like as a wolf that you're not seeing here?

And this, though this was at Cape.

[Totally not Taffy]

It's not that bad of a read friend.

I have explicitly been trying to bolster you because I see you not believe in yourself a lot, so you're not wrong that I've been talking you up more.

Talk about your solve though, I wanna be sure I'm right if I swap off you and want your thoughts on my page.

Currently working my way through Monty's wall. I first started suspecting Renata yesterday for this:

@Askthepizzaguy I think Boquise is town. Logic is either town or being hard bussed right now. Why has Renata not posted yet?

Those are my only other relevant thoughts rn.

I find this post important.

I'm not sure what alignment it points taffy towards, but I strongly think this will be clearing or damning in the future

This amuses me. In the linked post was shade on me (drawing attention to the fact I hadn't posted yet) and a bare town read on Boquise.

Do with that what you will.

I've nested my original post that Logic is replying to. To look at that, and leave out the parts that specifically are about him and that he's probably responding to, seems like it was done deliberately to shade me.

There's some more stuff later that EoD that convinced me she hadn't actually read my D1 iso and was just looking for ways to make me look bad. Like, I only made 24 posts, and 8 of those were talking either to or about Logic. I went back and forth on my read on him, it's very untrue to say

Vote: Logic

three-way tie

Wait, WHAT?

Taffy's one and only post having to do with Logic's actual alignment is that he looks like a towny. What is this and why. Please answer.

Also never at least to this point answered a very very good question from Logic about who, if he's being bussed (as Taffy suggested was one of the options, with the other being that he is just town), are his partners. Can't exactly go back and demand a response on that one at this point, just noted.[/QUOTE]

[Totally not Taffy]

Ah I broke the quote.

Wait, WHAT?

Taffy's one and only post having to do with Logic's actual alignment is that he looks like a towny. What is this and why. Please answer.

[hollowkatt]

what happens when your poe is posting townie asking for a friend

[EnderWiggin]

Oh shit no wait Taffy is probably 100% town and I've been an idiot. I straight up call out how Dya's read on Taffy is different to their townread on Ladd and that's part of how I built the case on Dya after Ladd's flip.

That should never be w/w/w unless I'm an idiot.

[hollowkatt]

Oh shit no wait Taffy is probably 100% town and I've been an idiot. I straight up call out how Dya's read on Taffy is different to their townread on Ladd and that's part of how I built the case on Dya after Ladd's flip.

That should never be w/w/w unless I'm an idiot.

I'm inclined to agree, especially in light of 2654 which kinda shoots a large hole in Renatas case on Taffy.

If true I'm here:
HK
Ender
Taffy
Boq
Csargo

which leaves
Monty
Renata
Kage
Amy

but I town read Renata tonally and outside of the Taffy interaction they've been pretty townie but what they're accusing Taffy of doesn't jibe with what appears to be reality. And if I move Monty to town off of the work he's doing and generally speaking agree with the way he's clearing people (and I do think he's making his life harder as wolf than needs be and while he could have shifted into power wolf after losing ladd and dya I don't associate that with his overall body of work) then I'm left with Kage/Amy and tbh a wolf team of Ladd/Dya/Kage/Amy is a team that literally never wins this game and mafia is never this easy... halp

[hollowkatt]

unvote

[Montmorency]

You may be thinking - if Taffy is scum, who is the partner? Isn't Boq so active, would he really bus? Maybe it's those turbo-slanking, Csargo-voting wackadoos, Kage and Amp. But remember, if Taffy is scum there's only one partner left.

i am not sure why you completely remove amy and kage as a relationship, so you could elaborate there tbh!

Because it's the least elegant and silliest possible pairing in concept.

Because from thread behavior we have to believe that Kage-Amp, POEed players, showed up for 2 posts of D4 in order to place barely-reasoned votes onto Csargo.

I've made no secret of my theory that your D1-2 shows you, dya, and ladd working together in a coordinated fashion in a way that isn't evident for other groupings of players, for example. I can't, at this point, fit Kage-Amp into that pattern.

Maybe it's bias, but someone should try to make a case off available data for Kage-Amp as a pairing. I'd like to see it.

i answered and wrote "Exactly"
because what you are saying is my point why i am clearing csargo tbh

And once again, I made this point first!

[EnderWiggin]

Why do you clear Boq HK?

[Montmorency]

Vote: Renata

Not 100% my vote, just still ruminating

Renata has a lot of actions unpairing with or antagonistic with both dya and ladd, whereas taffy has the opposite. Renata is not a good alternative.

Have you checked through the taffy subsections in my ladd and dyachei ISOs, or the posts last page with videos embedded?

[EnderWiggin]

Csargo (2): Amy, Kage
Taffy (4): Monty, Csargo, Boq, Renata
Renata (2): Taffy, Ender
Unvoted: HK

I made a votecount for today because I don't know what the votes are and we got 30m

[Montmorency]

Whether as ultimate potato townies or ultimate slanker Mafia, kage-Amp will probably doom us at the rate we're going.

[EnderWiggin]

Renata has a lot of actions unpairing with or antagonistic with both dya and ladd, whereas taffy has the opposite. Renata is not a good alternative.

Have you checked through the taffy subsections in my ladd and dyachei ISOs, or the posts last page with videos embedded?

I haven't properly read the ISOs I thought I had less time than I do.

Also do you really think a wolf like Ladd has NONE of the wolves in his susses?

I can tell you when I last played with him he had them spread around and in the 4man team we had he had one in his suss pile. (That was me iirc)

You were even in that game when Katze carried us.

[EnderWiggin]

Whether as ultimate potato townies or ultimate slanker Mafia, kage-Amp will probably doom us at the rate we're going.

I think 1/2 is wolf but tbh I'm not sure which lmao.

[Csargo]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

@Askthepizzaguy I think Boquise is town. Logic is either town or being hard bussed right now. Why has Renata not posted yet?

Those are my only other relevant thoughts rn.

I have a dislike of going with consensus especially D1 because it often lands on town and it provides easy cover for wolves. If we're all throwing a lot of reads/observations around, then they are forced to do so as well and the D5 conversation can be better than "you voted Logic - well so did you - yes but my reasons were more genuine than your reasons".

At the start of the game I felt like Logic was trying too hard to fit in with the "whoo let's do all the wolf tells" game that was going. Post #133 specifically gave me that impression, and I think others thought the same because the flow of the thread suddenly came to a halt at that time until Cape obliviously broke the silence. Logic's early reads list contained nothing surprising so I don't know why he felt the need to make it at that time. However, he has since posted very much like I'd expect a town in his position to post. I have never played with Logic before, nor read any of his games, so I don't know how good a wolf he is.

Are there other players in this game who you think should know about Visor being good at reading you?

Ender saying Logic in full wolf meta

This is what I was referring to when I said Logic is either town or being bussed. And it would make sense in a game with a lot of strong town that if one of your team gets caught in an unfortunate start that you'd rather let them go and try to get some towncred than that you'd risk losing two members.

All Logic related quotes I saw

[hollowkatt]

Why do you clear Boq HK?

I'm finding it easy to follow along with the way he's approaching the game. That's a big part of it. Like he's not saying things that are wildly unpossible or making pushes that are weird. I like the work he's doing to unpair people, specifically in post 2539.

boq doesn't appear to be advancing a solve per se he's more interested in providing an anti-solve as in people who can't be paired with the flipped wolves. I favorably read that kind of play and it's not something that people widely associate me with so I'm unconcerned about it being a pocket.

I like how he's feisty today and feel like that's born of genuine irritation not faked. I came away from our real time interaction with a town read and it's basically held course since then.

I really like this:

in hindsight dya was a wolf being caught for the wrong reasons tbh

.

and really really like this

This whole conversation feels like the two of you got together in wolf chat and decided to stage a push on somebody to save Visor's butt from getting crisped.

lol

i dont think you really believe that

also who the fuck would actually do that

mmh yeah this seems unpairy with renata tbh

[EnderWiggin]

Vote: Csargo

Buttons.

[Totally not Taffy]

DYACHEI ASSOCIATIONS (D1-D2.5)

#720: Dya immediately reacts to the above with "how did the thread react and what do you think about it?" [I don't understand what this means.] Boq says thread didn't react and discusses impressions of Kage, Logic, and Visor, concluding with light FoS on Kage. Logic finds this exchange scummy for dya in #736.

Dyachei was repeating a phrase Boquise used, he had explained that he had made a particular read or statement to see how the thread would react and they were following up on that. I need to think about if he works as a partner.

Amy - it is a lot of posting to spend on Amy compared to others, maybe Boquise does have a point. Otoh if they play with each other regularly it can be explained as "this is the town I need to get on my side early".

Csargo - I don't think he is partnered with Dyachei

HK - I disagree with Asks, I think it's more likely Dyachei meant to push HK than that they're partnered imo

Kagemusha - A strategy where all three partners push Ender seems unnecessarily risky unless it's distancing and I find this an unlikely team

Renata - yeah I hate this section because it makes me think I'm wrong about RenataA

Taffy - what is piggybacking and why is it wrong to ask Vulgard about an unexplained townread on a player I'm interested in?



Someone remind me to ask Asks what "hurdling" is.

Of living players, Boq has potentially-performative exchanges with Amp and Boq. If either are AI, I think it's with Boq to a small-to-moderate extent.

That first Boq needs to be Dyachei, right?

Your part 2 post I agree that it's more likely that Amy was being set up. The interactions with Dyachei are much more intense than I remember Amy's interactions with others being and that just seems risky in case Amy flips first.