17er Saints and Martyrs

[Visor]

i mean i cant even tell if he actually wants to yeet them so like

@Visor wolfy sup who is wolf etc

good question

ask me again in about 7 hours

[Visor]

popped in to say that ladd isn't clear yet and people should be wary of him

unnecessary post but maybe villagery unnecessary

[Visor]

Vote: murska

[Gemma]

Gemma has been ~there. I think the weird unsurety from both sides is kinda sus (especially since I sus Jan) but I don't have a strong thought on the subject. I don't know why they townread me for the joke (even though they've explained it now "a silly thing I might do as a villager" is something I'd make a read on but I wouldn't then make it sound strong in thread. Especially with the way they responded to my post as if to be like "don't worry I read your stuff!")

Dya is... very town. I think. (Got there before Ladd =P) I am not super super confident because my history on reading Dya has not been the best, but that being said I don't think I've ever incorrectly townread 'em when they were wolf. More often it's me sussing when they're town. (Or wolf. I am an egalitarian Dya susser.)

But with Ladd now jumping in saying the same thing I'm ~moderately more convinced no matter Ladd's allignment.

how are you reading through stuff wioth a bunch of people saying dya obv v and a bunch of other people saying dya w and basically no one except me apparently not having any fucking clue

my only meta on dya is that thread health go down whenever they're suspected whereas the people reading them strongly including yourself it seems like have a bunch of meta on them and they're one of several itt where it's just "x alignment because meta" which doesnt give a lot of room for uh, other types of oxygen

in other words what is your picture of the gamestate and how are you reconciling the split opinions / does it affect your read at all

also what does weird unsurety mean

[Gemma]

good question

ask me again in about 7 hours

so when im asleep

ok sure will do

[nebjiamn]

i don't think i have a particularly great view of the game but here's where i'm at.

i'm not really caught up on today as i've mostly been skimming from my phone during work breaks and i decided to write this post today and get thoughts out so i can go to bed rather than spending time reading. hopefully this helps one or some of you so i can say i did my part


high chance of v
zack - idt i need to say much but ill just blurb out that zack feels like an obvious villager in that in the wolf games i've seen him in over the last year, he's done what i would call 'the bare minimum.' which is to say he relies heavily on his wit and pure toan to get by but he hasn't really gone the 'extra mile' to project town/poke/prod in ways he has here. basically he hasn't tryharded to infiltrate towncores (note to zack that i am not dissing your wolf game at all since you won both the games that i'm thinking of, its just how i've portrayed your game in my mind's eye and i think its a very effective way to win). comparatively with what i've seen here i would be shocked (but not aww'd) if zack was a wolf here--not because he's incapable of this as a wolf, but because this just seems to align more with what i remember from his town games. a vast tonal gulf if you will (not really but still)

rask - every post i read from rask just seems loose and comfortable and i feel there'd just be more tiptoeing and tenseness behind his posts if he was a wolf here. think he's a villager very often here. i honestly don't have a ton of depth on this read but i also oddly don't care or feel like i need to to justify my confidence. game just fits fmpov with rask as a v just like it does with zack.


decent chance of v
ladd - gave my read on him earlier. i will not be surprised at all if i'm wrong but shooters shoot and i don't really think living in paranoia of the last time (every time) he's fooled me as a wolf justifies a wolf readon him here when i think he's been reasonable and also how he approached both myself and dya. decent v for me but take it with a grain of salt

hally - probly more town than ladd. i think she's brought up some good points and i've retroactively melded with her on a few occassions, second only to my doing so with zack. idk, she feels totally fine and appears to be thinking about/solving the game without agenda


slight v but no longer confident i'm not misclearing a wolf
arctic - my previous read on arctic still stands. honestly i wanted to come home and do a big reread of the thread and be able to go into detail on everyone, including a revisit specifically with arctic (and dya and gemma) reads, but i'm just way too fkn tired to do that, so instead i will reiterate that although i v read arctic i am very concerned that people on both sides of my reads have or had issues with arctic throughout the day, hence me lowering him into this category

dyachei - gth i think dya is v now, but my previous suspicion still stands. it feels like they may have struggled to get into the flow of the game. its very possible thats just a result of outside game stuff. i know it is possible actually, but i also think they have mostly have been fairly critiqued by (some)(most?) ppl who've talked about them. see: previous paragraph re: rereading and why that didn't happen for dya's slot but their reactions in the second half of the day are enough to make me not want to go there today but i can't say i feel confident they aren't a wolf here either. sort with caution etc.


wishy washy / null / the slighest of leans either way
wisdom - the tiniest of town leans/sliiiiightly north of null for silly meta purposes, like I think they'd just be a bit more obvious as a wolf here and i haven't gotten that feeling skimming their posts, but i also have mostly just skimmed them (sorry wisdom, its not you its me etc)

gemma - i said gemma's posts are ok earlier and they were but i am just officially rescinding that for legacy porpoises because i do not hold an active tr on this slot. in fact i got nothing. this is purely a null slot for me atp. i wish i had the energy to dig in here, because this feels like a potential good place to look (not necessarily as a wolf, just as a basis for solving) but i dont, sorry not sorry.

visor - a bit fishy but nothing strong. looks good if logic flips w. probly looks bad if logic flips v. there are nonbinary worlds for him where he's probably still ok even if he's wrong but i don't think there are ones where he's bussing logic. at least not often enough for me to give a damn on a day 1 reads list.


i don't mind if these die
vanta black / murska - if i was a wagering man, i'd put murska more likely as town and vanta black as more likely wolf but honestly i can't be assed to sort these two. i don't care if they die but also i don't think they're good day 1 yeets so hopefully they're just solved somehow later on, glgl with that

syn - i'm kind of just sheeping others on syn a bit. i don't really have much of a read on them but i'd be more interested in solving / yeeting here than vanta/murska


wolfy but watch this be 0/3
gh - i just don't vibe with my dude's posting. i think the 'dropping the shield post' was very wolfy both in timing and execution and its not really how i expect gh to handle a logic defense. i don't really agree that they are a package deal--there's obviously a good chance they're w/w if one flips wolf but i also think gh could have just done that as a villager (noting ladd's commentary and gh's own self-meta here but i just don't buy there isn't a scenario he can't defend v!logic in while still hoping to see him go over (either d1 or another)

all that to say, i don't wanna preflip gh based off logic sus, but again, just not vibing. i also got icky icky feelings when he turned around and commented (i think it was a hally post) that hally may be correct on a post about dya -- even though i think hally's post was good and made good points (and even i agreed that it might be a valid point!), just the way that came around felt slimey. idk. siw, GH.

ender - i don't really like ender's posts this day phase but i kinda think of my bottom 4 reads he's most likely to flip v of them based off whatever arbitrary metric is going off in my brain right now while i write this stuff. i'd lunch him still but i'd rather go logic first.


logic - i just dont get this dudes posting lol. i don't get how he's wolf reading zack. his scumreads (excluding zack) feel a bit consensus-y and lhf (i acknowledge that i also have ender as a wolf but see above re: my thoughts on me potentially being wrong on him + like, chance of bussing / spew / etc) and while sometimes the wolves are just consensus-y and lhf i don't really feel like there's true belief behind the wolf team he's constructed (im also acknowledging here that we accept that not all wolf reads form a 'wolf team' as we fabricate reads but i dont care for the purpose of this read because _actual team makeup_ isn't really relevant to my point)

the part about him conflating zack/visor and gemma/blade was just weird, particularly how he didn't actually sort out who in those pairs made ths posts he was thinking about but yet he was still wolf/villa reading them prior to deconflating them - i just.. what



_________________________________________________________________________


line break so i can save my last post and not have to vote logic in that one

i'm definitely not waking up to participate in eod but i'll prob set an alarm to see how we did. glgl all

Vote: logic

[Wisdom]

After some sleep I realized that the first one who said they found me hard to understand were likely to be town. Mostly due to it being a kind of rude thing to do and a wolf wouldn't know if it's the TMI spooking or if it's a personality thing.

Turned out that the first person was Zack, so I guess he's pretty much lock town by now, but it's not very helpful (I thought it was GH who were first, which would have been way more helpful).

Joining in on that (GH, Visor) says nothing about their aligments, although I find Visor acknowledging that he can't read me kinda wolfy, usually he just goes for the "Yeet Wisdom" repeat. I mean, if character growth -> Yay, but if wolf -> Yeet

Vote: Visor

[Gemma]

jesus benneh ok

[Wisdom]

I might be a fool for shrugging off Logic as town, I haven't really tried harder to read him than anyone else in the game, but I'm gonna stick by that I think he's town even if my main argument right now is Vibes.

Zack being town is pretty much my only actually confident read.

[Jan]

Ender started to push this weird warped expectation that I don't see likely coming from a wolf.

His focus and Gemma/myself and the lack of reading each other and that clashing with what he wants/expects to happen.

That is such a specific odd nitpick based on a single game that I don't really see a wolf mimicking here.
(plus it feels genuine)

To make this clear for ender after which I will move on:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Gemma and I have a very limited history that can be rather exhausting to even think about. We are friendly these days which is great, but that was not always the case.
We have shared a single game within the last 5 years and you were in that game.

I have no interest pushing for a read on any single person d1 in a game unless I am asked to read that person.
D1 for me is about letting reads come to me while playing the game unless people ask me to do specific work or I want to force reads on EoD wagons for obvious reasons.

In addition to that gemma has stated pregame that she is trying to play a very limited amount of time to not overly engage.
That makes reading a slot I don't feel comfortable reading even harder.
There is simply no reason for me to force any read from my side at this point.

As a small bonus I give you my very unreliable thoughts on Gemma:
I know Gemma was secretly hoping to roll wolf in the anon game I hosted earlier this year.
Assuming the secret hope is the same here she is likely a villager for not being more engaged.
If you add the fact that she wants to commit less time as either alignment all of this gets muddled down to light villa with no confidence.

It is a lazy read because it does not factor in anything she has done in thread, but I don't think any of her words have done anything to me.

[Jan]

Benneh read all but two people. I expect those people are both on the same tier and he just forgot.

It is me and nebjiamn. Lock it in boys.

[nebjiamn]

uhh, i guess i missed jan somehow when i copied the playerlist and sorted it and wrote that post, but he would be in the same category as ladd and hally i think

[ladd]

Ill copy benneh but with 99% less effort

Vvv
Ladd
Zack
Rask
Benneh

Vv
Jan
Dya

V
Murska
Wisdom

Probably v but kinda spooked me at some points (i cannot stress enuf that i get this read will be frustrating for you cause its based on nothing and your posting is perfecy fine but you cant command your heart)
Hally

Blind spots/no well fleshed out thoughts
Ender
Gemma

Lazy package deal
Gh
Logic

I never really talked about logic but i thought he started bad, improved around the time gh dropped the shield and then posted bad again with the vanta push (but last couple of posts a bit better)

I think zack makes good points especially with the difference from the other game but i also cannot not take into consideration that gh villa and logic wolf seems like super unlikely to me? So to me lunching logic before gh today doesnt make much sense and idr wanna lunch gh so uh ya i am kinda stuck with leaving this alone for today


Null line
Vanta-true null
Visor-if syn is a wolf there is a ppst from him that kinda pinged me, otherwise have no real thoughts on him

Good effort but cant shake feeling they are posting wolfy
Artic

W
Syn

[Gemma]

Ender started to push this weird warped expectation that I don't see likely coming from a wolf.

[Gemma]

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

[Raskolnikov]

After some sleep I realized that the first one who said they found me hard to understand were likely to be town. Mostly due to it being a kind of rude thing to do and a wolf wouldn't know if it's the TMI spooking or if it's a personality thing.

Turned out that the first person was Zack, so I guess he's pretty much lock town by now, but it's not very helpful (I thought it was GH who were first, which would have been way more helpful).

Joining in on that (GH, Visor) says nothing about their aligments, although I find Visor acknowledging that he can't read me kinda wolfy, usually he just goes for the "Yeet Wisdom" repeat. I mean, if character growth -> Yay, but if wolf -> Yeet

Vote: Visor

Wisdom, what? This is such a lame excuse to vote Visor. Wolfy fame. (And yes Ive been trying hard to let you go but this is too much to shut up lol)

Ladd is still villa. (I had some doubts yesterday because some of his takes were so similar to mine it felt pockety, but then why bother to pocket me lol, and today I think the takes are more articulated and with more depth)

Benneh is formatting posts (wolfy ) (disclaimer for woofs: this isnt real, cant use it)

Dya villa imo.

Gemma sinking tbh. Just dont see where they are solving.

[Raskolnikov]

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

Ok this is new. Let me digest it gemma.

[Raskolnikov]

Gemma gth eod is in one minute, who do you vote?

[Gemma]

Gemma gth eod is in one minute, who do you vote?

probably murska or wherever the majority of my v reads are voting

[Gemma]

Gemma sinking tbh. Just dont see where they are solving.

[Gemma]

anyway im way over my quota for today so bye

Vote: Murska

[Visor]

i have finally beaten elden ring

fun game

would rec

if you have a spare billion hours

[Visor]

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

[Visor]

syn posts don't do anything for me

i'm not gonna shed a tear if he dies but i don't care about killing him

i'd rather kill murska

[Visor]

@Zack
@GeneralHankerchief

kill murska

[Visor]

i refuse to reread the thread to check

but the fact i can't recall jan making a mildly humourous jab in my direction is wolfy

[Jan]

i refuse to reread the thread to check

but the fact i can't recall jan making a mildly humourous jab in my direction is wolfy

You are not wrong.
No defense.
I have failed humankind.

[EnderWiggin]

I should stop making meta judgement over how people treat other people is what I'm getting from this game. I almost always feel like I irk people with it slash just get it wrong.

So in this dedication I have decided to still somewhat scumread Jan because I dunno what I'd do with this tunnel if I had to deconstruct it. (Though I'll now more focus on how they treated their read on me/etc rather than anything else.)

I hate people saying wallposts are towny tbh. Benneh's was just a readslist with colours.

And yes I do townread Benneh but that wallpost has nothing to do with it. Legitimately wall posts with lists are fakeable by any half decent wolf and this playerlist is full of half decent wolves. At least.

Do I have anything more coherent to add to this? EPIC the Musical is pretty great and I'm spending too much time listening to it tbh.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, what? This is such a lame excuse to vote Visor. Wolfy fame. (And yes Ive been trying hard to let you go but this is too much to shut up lol)

Ladd is still villa. (I had some doubts yesterday because some of his takes were so similar to mine it felt pockety, but then why bother to pocket me lol, and today I think the takes are more articulated and with more depth)

Benneh is formatting posts (wolfy ) (disclaimer for woofs: this isnt real, cant use it)

Dya villa imo.

Gemma sinking tbh. Just dont see where they are solving.

I mean, you're not wrong. I was about to unvote right after posting but then I realized I won't be here for EoD (this day, should work upcoming days) and I don't really have anyone else to vote.

I remember Visor fooling me hard one time and in that game he played way townier than he's done so far, which probably should imply that he's town. But, meh.

I don't have a full read list but anyone who's not [Zack, Rask, Ladd, Logic, Ender, Dya, GH?, Ben?] I would be okay voting today. That means my PoE is 8 people atm.

[Wisdom]

i have finally beaten elden ring

fun game

would rec

if you have a spare billion hours

Some day I will continue playing ng+ and ng++ for platinum
But yes, 10+/10 game!