17er Saints and Martyrs

[Jan]

did I forget anyone?

V
murska
rask
Hally

light v
ben
jan
wisdom
ladd maybe

null
gh - depends on what happens with logic
ender
gemma
vanta

wolfy
arctic
logic
visor

Can you give me 2 words on hally and ben.

I have them both as villager reads, but I would love to reconfirm that. :X

[nebjiamn]

did I forget anyone?

V
murska
rask
Hally

light v
ben
jan
wisdom
ladd maybe

null
gh - depends on what happens with logic
ender
gemma
vanta

wolfy
arctic
logic
visor

close to where i'm at

i have ladd higher and arctic not so low and you are slotted where you put me but aside from that pretty much how i feel about the game rn

[dyachei]

Can you give me 2 words on hally and ben.

I have them both as villager reads, but I would love to reconfirm that. :X

I think ben's entrance into the game today is really villagery. I was more on the fence about him yesterday. Although I've been a bit frustrated at times this game with Hally (mostly because I think my communication sucks), I think her solving today is mindmeldy to mine. I think the way she's looking at the game makes sense and she's re-evaluating based on flips - even if I sometimes disagree with the outcome. Like I think arctic's vote looks like the rest of his game did - agenda'd

[dyachei]

close to where i'm at

i have ladd higher and arctic not so low and you are slotted where you put me but aside from that pretty much how i feel about the game rn

ladd was really not villagery to me yesterday and I can't in good conscience put him higher.

[ladd]

did I forget anyone?


light v
ladd maybe

Really.jpg


Jan can you explain a bit more in detail what read ender made thats unfakeable iyo? Idk if i missed it

[Hally]

i don’t really want to keep talking about logic because i feel like this horse got beaten to death last day and resulted in some unfun vibes but i can’t really get over how he posted at zack last day esp with zack dead now

it just seems like he is a wolf who wanted to buy time limply wolf reading his main pusher until he can NK them lol. like, he had zack as wolf for wolf reading him when zack was, imo, clearly the most obvious villager in the game? and i don’t really think it was close at all. and like i get that villagers omgus, but how he went about it just seems wolfy. zero attempt to make any read on zack outside of the push on him, zero consideration for why w!zack would go balls to the wall trying to get him D1’d and make himself look bad being incredibly wrong about someone he’s expected to read well, zero attempt to engage with zack about anything, zero attempt to engage with others about zack, etc

like, think of it this way - if he is a villager and thinks zack is wolf, from his pov we are living in a world where everyone is hard clearing the blatant power wolf trying to run the thread and ram home an easy mislunch, but logic has none of the urgency i would expect from a villager who actually believes this to be the case. like straight up, when i read his posts about zack, i just don’t believe he actually thinks zack is a wolf lol. he just keeps limply repeating the same line “zack is wrong so he’s sus” but his read never develops at all beyond that boilerplate reasoning, it just feels like something he’s saying out of obligation almost because he thinks it would be weird not to. there’s no actual conviction or feeling behind it, which you can tell because instead of actually pushing zack and trying to convince everyone the guy we are all clearing is owning us, logic goes with a weaksauce vote on vanta (the lowest poster in the game) citing what seem like nothingburger posts but are apparently wolfy enough to him to push more than his zack read ???

outside that stuff, the rest of his posts are also just… not good imo? i dunno, i don’t really see real consideration and thought about people’s alignments in his posts. like, i don’t want to be rude but i feel like logic can do better and i just… don’t really get what he was doing last day if he’s a villager lol

[Hally]

the good news is if we're wrong its all hally's fault and we can blame them

[Jan]

Just realised I'm actually running low-ish on posts and I need to think about ending shitpost hour. Which was fun.

I think Jan needs to be talked about more. Feels like they're sliding under the radar vs the other two games I've had with them. (One I was wolf, the other town.)

More importantly their posting has continued to ping me. (I swear this isn't a "hyperfocus because they sus me" thing.)

#394 especially recently feels like a "Look at these options that are obvious but I'm definitely exploring options."

It also feels non-commital in the way it defers to a townread there.

#81 was the original post that got me sus on them.

Partially because the "Yeah definitely agree with your sus there!" thing on me. Yes. Yes. Self-centric reads shush.

But a lot of the takes in that post were like "Yeah I see what you're saying" rather than really saying much about them.

The other note is that I remember Gemma/Jan having a fairly good measure on each other and Gemma's being weird about me too which makes me wonder. (Gemma I don't have a good take on so I'm a bit ~iffy~ but nothing concrete)

Zack/Raskol are the centre of my towncore tbh. But I don't have entire agreements with some of their worldviews. I am being swayed a little towards Logic (Despite being generally anti-logic trains because the dude gets wiped D1/D2 way too much recently) but I'm refusing to vote there because of the just said opinion.

Arctic I have vacillated on a lot, but I think I've come to "Probably towny" again? I am missing something there because I don't normally feel like a metronome looking at their posts.

GH I'm just... eh about. I do like Zack's points. Consider this a sheeping tell.

I had other things I wanted to talk about...

I might be back in long-post format for now. Condensing a bunch of thoughts because I have like... 10 posts left and I should be going to sleep when post-cap lifts.

I don't think the bold purple line comes from a wolf. The rest is fakable by a capable player. But specific reads like that where expectation clashes reality is very much a villager thing.

[Hally]

Thinking I had a somewhat unique take on visor wolf, only to see it's been mentioned a bunch already in the gap I hadn't read.

Let me elaborate on dya while I'm here before someone beats me to it: specifically regarding her read on me and GH makes me think I'm seeing perspective slips, not a reevaluation.

Vote: Dya

I will vote visor as well. People that have scammed with me know that I don't bus except by accident or permission.

wdym re: bolded? perspective slip how?

[Logic]

i don’t really want to keep talking about logic because i feel like this horse got beaten to death last day and resulted in some unfun vibes but i can’t really get over how he posted at zack last day esp with zack dead now

it just seems like he is a wolf who wanted to buy time limply wolf reading his main pusher until he can NK them lol. like, he had zack as wolf for wolf reading him when zack was, imo, clearly the most obvious villager in the game? and i don’t really think it was close at all. and like i get that villagers omgus, but how he went about it just seems wolfy. zero attempt to make any read on zack outside of the push on him, zero consideration for why w!zack would go balls to the wall trying to get him D1’d and make himself look bad being incredibly wrong about someone he’s expected to read well, zero attempt to engage with zack about anything, zero attempt to engage with others about zack, etc

like, think of it this way - if he is a villager and thinks zack is wolf, from his pov we are living in a world where everyone is hard clearing the blatant power wolf trying to run the thread and ram home an easy mislunch, but logic has none of the urgency i would expect from a villager who actually believes this to be the case. like straight up, when i read his posts about zack, i just don’t believe he actually thinks zack is a wolf lol. he just keeps limply repeating the same line “zack is wrong so he’s sus” but his read never develops at all beyond that boilerplate reasoning, it just feels like something he’s saying out of obligation almost because he thinks it would be weird not to. there’s no actual conviction or feeling behind it, which you can tell because instead of actually pushing zack and trying to convince everyone the guy we are all clearing is owning us, logic goes with a weaksauce vote on vanta (the lowest poster in the game) citing what seem like nothingburger posts but are apparently wolfy enough to him to push more than his zack read ???

outside that stuff, the rest of his posts are also just… not good imo? i dunno, i don’t really see real consideration and thought about people’s alignments in his posts. like, i don’t want to be rude but i feel like logic can do better and i just… don’t really get what he was doing last day if he’s a villager lol

If you don't want to keep talking about me, you could always vote me and forget about me.

For the record, I don't think this dissertation on me is wolfy of you. But I do think you could vote me and talk about anyone else, if that is where your heart really is.

[Logic]

wdym re: bolded? perspective slip how?

Read dya's posts between #779 and p#807. Tell me what you think. Because I don't see reevaluation. It looks like backing off because there is still a townread and dya doesn't want to push against it.

[Logic]

I watch that probably once every 3 months. The soundtrack is perpetually in my wife's default playlist (showtunes+Beatles+Billy Joel+Queen+David Bowie+Elton John)

ETA and tag @Jan

[dyachei]

Really.jpg


Jan can you explain a bit more in detail what read ender made thats unfakeable iyo? Idk if i missed it

your EOD looked better than earlier to me.

[Hally]

Read dya's posts between #779 and p#807. Tell me what you think. Because I don't see reevaluation. It looks like backing off because there is still a townread and dya doesn't want to push against it.

idgi, they were just asking me to explain? they still have you as a wolf in the readslist they just posted though

[dyachei]

i promise I have not backed off you logic, at all.

Im actively asking people why visor instead of you lol

[Jan]

ETA and tag @Jan

Sounds like a good playlist tbh. Not my every day playlist but perfect for cooking/cleaning (highest chance of me singing and dancing while nobody else is watching).

I watch it once or twice a year but when I do I normally watch it 2-3 times within a couple of days. Just so much fun and so many silly easter eggs.

[nebjiamn]

i don’t really want to keep talking about logic because i feel like this horse got beaten to death last day and resulted in some unfun vibes but i can’t really get over how he posted at zack last day esp with zack dead now

it just seems like he is a wolf who wanted to buy time limply wolf reading his main pusher until he can NK them lol. like, he had zack as wolf for wolf reading him when zack was, imo, clearly the most obvious villager in the game? and i don’t really think it was close at all. and like i get that villagers omgus, but how he went about it just seems wolfy. zero attempt to make any read on zack outside of the push on him, zero consideration for why w!zack would go balls to the wall trying to get him D1’d and make himself look bad being incredibly wrong about someone he’s expected to read well, zero attempt to engage with zack about anything, zero attempt to engage with others about zack, etc

like, think of it this way - if he is a villager and thinks zack is wolf, from his pov we are living in a world where everyone is hard clearing the blatant power wolf trying to run the thread and ram home an easy mislunch, but logic has none of the urgency i would expect from a villager who actually believes this to be the case. like straight up, when i read his posts about zack, i just don’t believe he actually thinks zack is a wolf lol. he just keeps limply repeating the same line “zack is wrong so he’s sus” but his read never develops at all beyond that boilerplate reasoning, it just feels like something he’s saying out of obligation almost because he thinks it would be weird not to. there’s no actual conviction or feeling behind it, which you can tell because instead of actually pushing zack and trying to convince everyone the guy we are all clearing is owning us, logic goes with a weaksauce vote on vanta (the lowest poster in the game) citing what seem like nothingburger posts but are apparently wolfy enough to him to push more than his zack read ???

outside that stuff, the rest of his posts are also just… not good imo? i dunno, i don’t really see real consideration and thought about people’s alignments in his posts. like, i don’t want to be rude but i feel like logic can do better and i just… don’t really get what he was doing last day if he’s a villager lol

i agree

my struggle is i think logic and visor are unlikely (not impossible) to be paired and i think visor is a pretty good shot to be a wolf here

[Hally]

vote: EnderWiggin

hello i continue to dislike ender, can we go back to killing him. it would be really fun and i think you would like it

but no really

most of his ISO revolves around waffling on arctic and an unexplained vote on jan as his bookends (with a promise that there's a secret reason), before hard turning into a vote on me and saying he sussed me all along

how are we feeling about this re: ender?

[Jan]

your EOD looked better than earlier to me.

I had a conversation with Ladd about syn before rask ever pushed the slot and ladd already mentioned that the behavior is different (to the cereal game) and had syn as a wolfread.

[Logic]

i promise I have not backed off you logic, at all.

Im actively asking people why visor instead of you lol

Fair enough (wolfy tone)

Do you have any opinion of visor?

Do you have any opinion of my Dr Horrible readslist?

Do you have an opinion of Dr Horrible at all?

[Wisdom]

Tbh I think Logic talking about perspective slips without evaluating or pursuing until getting prodded about it is a good look for him. I get the vibe that he's just today's easy push!

[Logic]

Sounds like a good playlist tbh. Not my every day playlist but perfect for cooking/cleaning (highest chance of me singing and dancing while nobody else is watching).

I watch it once or twice a year but when I do I normally watch it 2-3 times within a couple of days. Just so much fun and so many silly easter eggs.

My normal playlist is one of Showtunes/John Williams+Jeremy Soule(Elder Scrolls Soundtracks)/Videogame &Movie Scores/Muse and ilk/80s synth rock like Cory Hart &Eurthymics/synth wave (Magic Sword is my current fave)/Indie singers famous for YouTube covers (Danillea Andrade being my current fave)

I watch Dr Horrible about as often as I watch Strange New Worlds: Subspace Rhapsody. (You should also watch that if you haven't; it's absolutely great)

But yeah, singing showtunes in the kitchen while I do dishes or cook is loads of fun.

BTW, I didn't see if you responded to my Doctor Horrible readslist specifically. Did you get what you were looking for out of it?

[Hally]

vote: EnderWiggin

hello i continue to dislike ender, can we go back to killing him. it would be really fun and i think you would like it

but no really

most of his ISO revolves around waffling on arctic and an unexplained vote on jan as his bookends (with a promise that there's a secret reason), before hard turning into a vote on me and saying he sussed me all along

i agree

my struggle is i think logic and visor are unlikely (not impossible) to be paired and i think visor is a pretty good shot to be a wolf here

i don’t really get why them being w/w is unlikely?

visor barely pushed logic last day then close to EoD when logic was the counter to syn visor tried to make murska a thing instead of just trying to kill logic. doesn’t that kinda spew logic as wolf?

also logic is still basically ignoring visor despite visor not being villagery at all when he basically treated visor like an outed wolf for misreading him in the town game zack quoted

like, am i missing something or should v!logic not basically always think visor is a wolf here? idgi lol

[Wisdom]

how are we feeling about this re: ender?

Considering Syn didn't have his heart in the game I doubt that he wanted to go deep by distancing, and at this point it wasn't obvious he was going to die either so wouldn't say he was in antispew (outside of well, not mentioning half the playerlist). So my conclusion is that Syn spewed him v, and I also tr him individually.

[dyachei]

Serendipity: My wife already calls me Moist because my hands are always damp.

Bait and Switch are mentioned in dialogue only. So I'd say they are Vanta and Murska due to lack of actual presence.

I know Captain Hammer is an antagonist of the story, but I hesitate to equate him to one of my scumspects. Maybe he's best described as a town-siding wolf? I don't have a perfect name to correlate. But let's say GH for now. I'll elaborate later.

Bad Horse: most obvious villain. right now this is dya. Maybe dya is remembering incorrectly, but GH has, without fail, read my alignment wrong as a wolf. In the past, it is so consistent that a Logic flip before GH where he was wrong meant he was scum (and no one but me ever called him out on it.) So because of this, and dya saying that "GH gets Logic's alignment right regardless of his own" I am pointing the finger at dya. Regardless if I'm right here, I think this paints a strong "not w/w" between GH and Dya.

Penny kinda suffers from being a "prize to be won" prop-characters with little agency of her own. The typical tropes of such a character is somewhat mitigated in Dr Horrible, but having the protagonist share a bunch of traits with incels, if not being an incel himself, colors the perception of the Penny character. Which is a shame, because she's got some good songs. Penny is definitely town, obviously so, but somewhat naive. I don't think that describes anyone here.

And leaving the best for last, we have Doctor Horrible. Being the protagonist (but definitely a bad guy) is probably a wolf-siding villager. Based on absolutely nothing, let's call this Visor. (The mirror of GH? Wait, what?)

Fair enough (wolfy tone)

Do you have any opinion of visor?

Do you have any opinion of my Dr Horrible readslist?

Do you have an opinion of Dr Horrible at all?

i watched dr horrible a long time ago and remember enjoying it but not any details.

I think visor could easily be a wolf. But I also think he could still be a villager. He's kind of fitting that "could go either way" zone for me rn, but I'm trying to consider other people's reads there

as for your readslist I have quoted it for ease here

your read on me kind of sucks and it takes into account what you think I should know about you and gh that I clearly dont. Idk if you're making assumptions about the games I've been in with the two of you but I am stating things that are real to me and it makes no sense I would lie about them as a wolf. That plus "agenda" seems to be the crux of your issue with me and I know i have no agenda

I'd like to hear more about GH

and i'd like to now why you think visor is a villager considering everyone else this morning is ready to elim him

@nebjiamn - gh turn around is because I think logic has major wolf equity this morning and i'd expect gh to pick up on that. I still think how he's playe are villagery for him in a vacuum but GH doesn't suck at this game

[nebjiamn]

i don’t really get why them being w/w is unlikely?

visor barely pushed logic last day then close to EoD when logic was the counter to syn visor tried to make murska a thing instead of just trying to kill logic. doesn’t that kinda spew logic as wolf?

also logic is still basically ignoring visor despite visor not being villagery at all when he basically treated visor like an outed wolf for misreading him in the town game zack quoted

like, am i missing something or should v!logic not basically always think visor is a wolf here? idgi lol

good point

[GeneralHankerchief]

but GH doesn't suck at this game

that's where you're wrong kiddo .gif *pew pew*

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

to prevent this post from being a complete waste of my 50 allotted, I will say that Logic's posting today has not exactly inspired me in terms of how I typically read them and now I'm headed into the reeval with a chilling sense of fear that I got all hot and bothered about Zack getting up in my business about it for nothing

do not take this post as an endorsement in terms of me leaning in one direction or another

[nebjiamn]

that's where you're wrong kiddo .gif *pew pew*

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

to prevent this post from being a complete waste of my 50 allotted, I will say that Logic's posting today has not exactly inspired me in terms of how I typically read them and now I'm headed into the reeval with a chilling sense of fear that I got all hot and bothered about Zack getting up in my business about it for nothing

do not take this post as an endorsement in terms of me leaning in one direction or another

well now that gh has finally signed off on logic wolf we can just yeet him into the sun

[Hally]

And leaving the best for last, we have Doctor Horrible. Being the protagonist (but definitely a bad guy) is probably a wolf-siding villager. Based on absolutely nothing, let's call this Visor.

like he is calling visor a wolf siding villager but zack who was a billion times more villagery than visor was a wolf? again, here is how he treated visor for misreading him in his town game:

I just spent the last 14 hours playing a 24-year-old Video game, AMA

Anyway, to more relevant thoughts, Visor voting for me is the only one I would call an indictment.

There are a handful of people that can soulread me correctly every time, and visor is on that list.

Ladd I think should be able to read me correctly by now, but I can forgive him at this point.

Pizza having sus but not committing to it is about right for him, so I'm giving him a day pass (as if I could be the pebble that brings down a mountain on him)

Dya being comfortable? on day 1 I think is their wolfy meta.

TLDR
After I flip villager, nuke visor.

Vote: Visor

??????????????

[nebjiamn]

i don’t really get why them being w/w is unlikely?

visor barely pushed logic last day then close to EoD when logic was the counter to syn visor tried to make murska a thing instead of just trying to kill logic. doesn’t that kinda spew logic as wolf?

also logic is still basically ignoring visor despite visor not being villagery at all when he basically treated visor like an outed wolf for misreading him in the town game zack quoted

like, am i missing something or should v!logic not basically always think visor is a wolf here? idgi lol

this is a good point but visor also already talked about pulling back on the logic read prior to that i think

i don't think it spews logic wolf because we cant preflip visor (as much as id love to)

another reason im unpairing them a bit is cause then i have the team as logic/syn/gh/visor and like what was that team doing (this is me saying i think gh is still linked to logic more than visor is but it'd be weird if its all 3 of them)

idk i don't really disagree with you i guess but it just feels too easy (maybe easy is good ig)