17er Saints and Martyrs

[nebjiamn]

its probably syn/visor/gh/X and that team knew they had to kill zack overnight given he had the following reads/posts:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Good, you clicked through this spoiler. This isn't actually zack's reads spoilered. He's too busy tending to what's left of taffy's DVC

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Hally]

ender ladd is not a wolf


also i don’t think anyone acknowledged my read on arctic so bumping:

nah i don’t think he plays it like that as wolf unless logic is one too

caveat that i haven’t actually seen him wolf in a normal game but from how he wolfs in turbos + how i’ve heard him/people who know him talk about his wolf game, he’s a firm believer in bussing being dumb and goes hard powerwolfing so i think w!him would find some reason to either vote logic or at least not vote syn. obv syn was super bussable but i don’t think arctic would really give a shit about that lol. once it became clear it was gonna be syn vs. logic as the wagons i think w!arctic would have made up some reason to push logic not just shrug off the suspicion on him

again ofc doesn’t apply if he is exactly w/w with logic which uh could definitely be the world we’re in lol but i wouldn’t lunch him outside that

also imo arctic has been pretty pure today regardless of logic’s alignment. feels like he genuinely working through stuff and considering different angles in a way that feels like genuine exploration

i’m kinda getting the sense that he’s a villager wolves are prob gonna have to mislunch to win if the game gets hard cuz nobody here really knows him so it’s easier to default to “maybe it’s him” but i would think twice about it and def don’t kill him before logic imo

[ladd]

(To be clear you are free to think i am a wolf who bussed, i was joking about the "jokingly maybe" post, what i dont understand is how my name wad the 1st one that came to you for shrug bussing when you clearly read eod and i was the one pushing for syn to go over and defending murska)

This feels like a waste of a post but i dont wanna make people feel bad for pushing me lmao


Wolfy push tho

[ladd]

ender ladd is not a wolf


also i don’t think anyone acknowledged my read on arctic so bumping:
also imo arctic has been pretty pure today regardless of logic’s alignment. feels like he genuinely working through stuff and considering different angles in a way that feels like genuine exploration

i’m kinda getting the sense that he’s a villager wolves are prob gonna have to mislunch to win if the game gets hard cuz nobody here really knows him so it’s easier to default to “maybe it’s him” but i would think twice about it and def don’t kill him before logic imo

Ya artic has been posting very good today

[EnderWiggin]

ender ladd is not a wolf


also i don’t think anyone acknowledged my read on arctic so bumping:
also imo arctic has been pretty pure today regardless of logic’s alignment. feels like he genuinely working through stuff and considering different angles in a way that feels like genuine exploration

i’m kinda getting the sense that he’s a villager wolves are prob gonna have to mislunch to win if the game gets hard cuz nobody here really knows him so it’s easier to default to “maybe it’s him” but i would think twice about it and def don’t kill him before logic imo

I suppose this is where I mention that I hate "Never busses" metas because they get a free win out of bussing and I just don't like that.

Also on that note "Genuinely working through the game" maybe but his takes have existed in that weird liminal space where it's off the wall but not like the Wisdom townread "At odds with thread". They seem aware of thread but fighting against the flow. (See my comment about their "but maybe it's not because wolves bussed? :plead:" post.)

[ladd]

I suppose this is where I mention that I hate "Never busses" metas because they get a free win out of bussing and I just don't like that.

Also on that note "Genuinely working through the game" maybe but his takes have existed in that weird liminal space where it's off the wall but not like the Wisdom townread "At odds with thread". They seem aware of thread but fighting against the flow. (See my comment about their "but maybe it's not because wolves bussed? :plead:" post.)

Whats your thoughts on mr visor?

[EnderWiggin]

I'm shrug about giving up my Ladd sus because it was like a side-note I hadn't really verified.

But I am back to feeling stronger about Arctic. I'll fightchu for this.

(Though any casing can come later.)

[EnderWiggin]

Whats your thoughts on mr visor?

I'm holding onto my Visor thoughts until he posts.

[Logic]

I've got a pocket read of Hally

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Raskolnikov]

Having read thread Wisdom is town.

agreed.

I'd reserve judgement on your mum though. (tbh I fail to see a world where Ladd is a wolf with respect to his treatment of Syn)

Think Arctic's reaction to some of my posts at EOD was villagery

[Raskolnikov]

Logic you can't be serious when you say you don't see why I am obvious villa. I'd rather die than hellbus a fun partner D1 and get us 3 irl more days to end the game lol

[Raskolnikov]

Benneh effectively out of his poor wolf range? I want to believe so. (thinking out loud, drunk tbh)

[Logic]

Logic you can't be serious when you say you don't see why I am obvious villa. I'd rather die than hellbus a fun partner D1 and get us 3 irl more days to end the game lol

I am 100% serious. I keep forgetting your posts. I don't forget you exist, I am just having trouble having your opinions stick in my head, since we never seem to interact with each other

Since we are both here now, let's chat a bit.

For a moment, ignore only my read on you. Where am I wrong, right, etc. I've dropped an opinion about everyone in game by now, so you've got many things to use as a launching off point.

Dissect it.

[nebjiamn]

Benneh effectively out of his poor wolf range?

[Raskolnikov]

Well not now sorry. I am too boozed for that lol

Think you are fake friendo though. your read on Vanta, your read on me, your awkward opening, your trouble to get into the game for 2 third of D1. Tbh I'll get more time tmr and I will give your ISO a shot to try to pinpoint my problems with your slot or reeval if that's how I feel then. But rn it mostly down to it. (oh also yeah, wagonomics. Might be dumb but if you are villa, I guess you'd have been under much more contention at EOD1)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ok, I suppose you're all owed some actual effort from me. I wanted to just vibe in this game and phaff around while other people actually did the solving, but events have taken their course and vibing ain't gonna cut it. So let's just do this, get it out of the way, and hope it's good enough for me to coast for the rest of the game until hopefully I get cleared through associatives or something so I don't have to do this again.

In this post I will discuss every player aside from Murska and Logic. This will be in no particular order.




Rask/ladd

Don't think I need to belabor the point here. Town. Rask higher than ladd but it shouldn't matter.


Jan

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not the best Jan reader. He's a tricksy wolf who's fooled me at least once in the past (caveat: it was a mash, so transcribe it to this type of game at your peril) and I find myself naturally gravitating towards townreading his typical tone.

That said, we had two clear points of agreement on D1 that go beyond the typical "gud t0an" stuff that make me feel more confident about my Jan read at this point. The first was early in the game, re: Arctic's initial posting:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You are correct on me and I had the same very slight feeling about ender.

I personally read Arctic as over-the-top wolfy. It felt more like bait than an actual wolf. Which is why I was not too fond of Murskas vote.
Not only that it is the combo of entering the thread, voting the person who is "howling", and dipping out.
While others are more ... playful?

If you don't remember, Arctic had a corker of an entry D1 that kept oscillating between "plain old bad" and "self-aware about how bad it was but still persisting and still being bad". Back when I was still in my shitposting phase, I did spend some amount of thought on those posts and eventually decided it was a straight-up case of TWTBAW, and Jan came to the same conclusion as me without any sort of prompting from me (since, again, I was still in my shitposting phase).

The second was his mid-d1 post about Gemma:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Gemma is a really weird spot because she clearly joined the thread with a plan but never really did anything with it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

She enters thread by copying the same format someone else used earlier.
This is to some extend a call back to a joke, but also makes it clear she has read some of the thread and that this might not be an rvs vote.


After which there is talk about missing the rvs phase but wanting to shitpost. Which she didn't really do that much outside of 1 prepared post.

She then quotes me while I am talking about not wanting to play ww at this moment and asks this:


GH at this point has no real content and only shitposts. Really odd person to ask to be read. All of it felt like she had an agenda either towards me or gh or both but I was not sure what her alignment is.
She went into her initial posts with a plan and the plan was not shitposting. The shitposting was some dress up on the side.

Dunno just a thought that has been in my head ever since but never felt like there is a reason to push on it.

I'm not going to pretend I had the same thought as Jan here independently, but I *did* read Gemma's initial entry into the thread and had just a minor tingle of "huh" about it, and Jan putting it into this context was both a) a coherent thought and b) showed good thoughts about the thread and game as a whole. Gemma, to my knowledge has still not really addressed the crux of this point but I'll talk more about that later. I'll finish the Jan section by saying that he was also reasonably early on Syn (made several comments mid d1 about Syn "conceding" after sustaining the first major push from Rask that I don't think a wolf would say about a wolfbro right off the bat) and while his posts so far on D2 haven't been anything a good wolf couldn't fake, he's also given me no reason to doubt my good feelings about him from D1. Town.


Wisdom

Partly relying on old meta here, and this might out one of my old alts on MU but hell with it lol.

I played two games with Wisdom in 2021 (the year I stopped playing). The first was a team mafia game where we were both wolfbros and both in on the same day, d1. In that game, there were a lot of meandering observations, nothing questions, and a truly horrendous bus vote on me that even I, deep into my powerwolf meta, had a hard time with spinning even though I specifically made a post designed to clear all of my teammates currently bussing me (I deeply despise that game, in case you couldn't tell ).

The second was a game a couple months later when I was on an alt, and Wisdom was more to the point, happy to lucky, and while they were a bit off-kilter in their solving in terms of how she worked with the consensus, there was still, you know, solving. I eventually helped mislunch her (I was town) later on in the game when she was ensconced in my POE, but even though her demise was telegraphed pretty early on in that day she was still cheerfully solving the entire time and I did have those niggling little vibes that I was going down the wrong path here, which I naturally ignored.

After a false start, Wisdom appears firmly in her town meta to me here.


benneh (nebjiamn)

Was quick to point out on multiple occasions on D1 that he was still well within both his ranges, which I agreed with at the time. I still agree with it now, 8-9 hours into D2 tbh. Out of the people generally not coming under fire, I feel like benneh's been the most skate-y. He's been content to just be chill, not super rock the boat much, and vibe with whoever happens to be in the thread at the time. (in other words he's seized by force the niche I wanted to occupy, and I will forever hate him for it ) His biggest, most notable push on D2, has been Visor, which sure, Visor's a popular guy today, but I don't actually think he's pushing the game forward much.

There's been some testing the waters on Arctic here, Gemma here but there's no followup with them and a bit later on he says his main disagreement with dya is that they put Arctic third from the bottom on a readslist. For the most part, he's been cool with just focusing in on the bottom group of the POE today.

Now, that's fine, considering I haven't done a damn thing today lol, and it could be benneh's just doing the standard villa thing of voicing some of his more outlier thoughts as he tries to focus on what's most likely going to be relevant at EOD, BUT! I also see a very possible explanation where he's seeding the thread and setting up for the future.

So I'll conclude this segment by saying that benneh's not out of either range by a longshot. Tinfoil town.


Arctic

Horrendous gamestart, discussed in Jan's section. Felt like TWTBAW to me. Arctic is in a weird position because, unless the MU social dynamics have changed since I mostly left the scene, Arctic is probably one of the more isolated folks in this specific playerlist (going off joindate this is Arctic's first Org game, for example). That's always gonna bring some awkwardness when you're a guest at the established club, so to speak, and that does have to be taken into account when reading into things. So let's set tone to the side for this and talk about his actual content.

We'll start with the negatives. These posts on Syn isn't great:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don't really know what syn is doing and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about half the game saying they sound normal and half the game saying they sound off cuz this means nothing to me

tbh ladd is probably mafia but idk if i care to prove it right now

syn is a fine shrug wagon if they aren't gonna play the game but the wagon comp on them doesn't really inspire confidence

dya's recent posts did nothing for me personally so i'm curious what the people who were insistent on letting them cook have to say about that

(previous two were midd1, the one below is eod1:)

if it's between logic/syn i'd just kill syn because it seems to me like they aren't going to give us anything more than what they have been this game judging from what they said pre-game and i'm never gonna find them villa if they are with this level of posting

but i still might vote gemma

There's been some talk about the "Syn skeptics", I'll call it, and I'll talk more about that later on in this post, but I think Arctic's stance on Syn has gone under the radar a bit and it's not great. We have a couple posts of the classic "wolf in a tough spot when dealing with a bro getting heat" where Arctic acknowledges the wagon because they have to, but then just kind of waves it off and goes about their business. They may have gotten taken by surprise by the Syn wagon in general because they expressed skepticism about both Rask and more notably ladd on d1, but otoh a wolf might be more in tune with threadflow stuff and try to work around it?

I have liked a number of Arctic's contributions. I feel like there's a real effort to get complete or near-complete stances on everyone in the game, and Arctic has also been one of the people beating the drum on Gemma, who I feel like has gotten lost in the shuffle and could very well be a wolf here. But the associatives toward Syn aren't great and bear monitoring for the future. Mixed, GTH town.


Hally

First, the overarching impression I get in this game is that hally is quite comfortable ITT. Hally's "peak" so to speak on MU coincided with the terminal stages of my decline so I never quite got the full decoder on their playstyle, but from what I can remember they were considerably more awkward in the thread when wolfing and I'm not really seeing much evidence of that here.

In terms of content, hally gets a minor point for being in agreement with myself and Jan over Arctic's entry posts (and was even more on the nose with me in terms of it than Jan, fwiw), but later this translates to getting into it with Arctic a bit over Rask of all people, that's aged somewhat well.

There's actually not a lot in hally's reads beyond their chats with Arctic (they have since switched up to Arctic looking better from EOD1) and then their big push on Logic, which I won't be discussing here for raisins. There's not a lot of moving the game forward really, just chilling in the thread similar to benneh. No reason to dislike their posts but hally is definitely going with the flow for the most part. Tinfoil town, would probably rank a tick higher than benneh for nebulous + tonal reasons.


EnderWiggin

Ok, let's talk about the Syn vote. Rask was first on, in post #365, after making a series of posts where he really honed in on his target. Syn's response, a single word, "mean", was post 366. Ender's vote came in at 367, nakedly a pile-on, and remained there for the rest of d1. Syn picked up another vote from Murska an hour or two later and was tied for the lead (with Ender himself) as of Taffy's 24hr vote count.

This was ender's rationale for doing so, as a tack-on to post 380:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Re: Syn. I know Rask has a ~good read on him, but I also was just sussing him so I wanted to see what happened when I joined Rask. I don't think Rask is as set as he says but the pressure/wagon will be a good way to find out.

He had some suspicion about Jan later on in d1, which I suppose could be read as testing the waters to see if he could get off, but Jan was pretty consensus town at that point. If he wanted off Syn, why not go to, like, [literally anyone in the me/Logic/dya/Gemma/etc general POE who was town]? This isn't a hypothetical w!benneh situation where he's setting stuff up for down the road, this would be a world where he just wants to get off a wagon that got too hot and not look terrible in the process, and this isn't what it looks like imo.

A little iconoclastic with a townread on dya with very little actual explanation here, and that's about it for d1. He notably was around for EOD1 and could switch off Syn, but chose not too. Not sure how much I should read into this.

Has, in general, given off the impression that he's having a good time ITT, which I should probably be placing less emphasis on than I am. I am aware that he's come back in the thread D2 since I started writing this up, but I'm not gonna go over it with a fine toothed comb. Yet. Bottom line, I don't think the Syn vote was a bus, seems fine for now.


Gemma

Really need some new posts from them, feels like the fourth time I've gone over their exact same posts in the past few days with very little additional context.

Gemma is part of that group in general who have actually not said very much about the game as a whole. Others in it are Visor, Syn, and, I suppose, myself to some extent. They started off hot with a vote against me and giving off the impression it was serious with the following sequence:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vote: GH

(real)

por que no los dos

whats your gh read tea leaves welcome

wdym for a normal player

like gh palying normally or

also why for hiso wn sake does he not loike woofing

but as Jan mentioned, I had not actually started playing the game at that point so that sequence was very much out of place as a whole. What was there to shade me about?

There's a number of reads sprinkled through Gemma's iso but they're all sporadic, mostly one-liners, and pretty disconnected from each other. Very doable for a wolf to fake, basically. There's some questioning, asking to elaborate on reads and the like, but there's not much if any actual follow-up. I'm trying to get a picture of Gemma's overall view of the gamestate from their iso and out of everybody I've looked at so far I'm just not seeing it really. It's all disjointed. Like I want to write more here because this is a slot of particular interest to me, but I just can't. POE, in danger of slipping beneath notice.


Vanta Black:

This one's an annoying one to pin down for me, because it's felt like Vanta's on the cusp of actually putting together a sustained sequence of thoughts that will help me get to where they're at with stuff... and then they dip. So let's work with what I can.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Okay, with absolutely very little meta to go on, in fact let's say none, I'm kinda townreading Raskol and Jan, kinda FOS on Arctic, Ladd, and Dyachie, and sorta null on everybody else. Also I guess Benneh is really Nebjiamn (my list came from the signup list).

I kinda go with vibes, at least early game, if you're wondering where this very lame reads list came from.

I do not agree with the dog name list. I would never name a dog something more than 2 syllables.

Sorry I haven't provided a lot of content, I got here late and was reading from the beginning.

Push me, I'll post more then.

Post 342, about 18 hours into the game. Not the worst look imo.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Between keeping the players straight in my head and trying to figure out how to get a votecount (ack, math? really?) I'm pretty much at sea here. To mix a metaphor.

Based on the last votecount I think I like the composition on Syn the best and would probably sheep that vote if I voted right now.

Post 516, something like 30 hours in. This is also pretty decent, correctly honing in on Syn but not looking especially bussy while doing so. Just a straight up "yeah Syn's voters seem cool, let's roll with this for now".

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now for some opinions.

Arctic’s entry pinged me, because it was just a “here I am, will play later” but then he continued to post. It just looked like trying too hard. He was immediately voted by Rask and Murska for these posts. They have both gone on to vote somebody else, oddly enough again it’s the same person (Syn). (as of right now) (I think)

Oddly enough I also would kinda like to vote Murska for opportunistic voting. This makes no sense because I think Rask is a villager and a sharp player and kinda wanta sheep Rask myself.

Hally, sorry I said I couldn’t remember any of your posts, because in fact I did remember that one elaborate pee pee poo poo thing. If that is some copypasta I haven’t seen it. NAI, but appreciated. Ya got me. Not voting Hally today.

I also kinda want to OMGUS Logic because it’s really hard for me to believe he honestly thinks I'm a wolf here. I could see his vote as a push, but when it came to who he really really thinks is a wolf? And he ends up on me? I'm not buying it. Logic had the same bad entry dynamic as Arctic, but at least didn’t keep apologizing for it.

While I don’t know that dyachei is wrong I wasn’t wild about the way he kept shading Arctic without putting a vote down, but then he finally did.

So let’s see here, who will it be?

vote: Logic

EOD/SOD falls at a time when I would literally have to stay up all night to be here for it. Which I very nearly have, but there are limits. If I'm still alive tomorrow I promise to do better. I've just been on the back foot the whole of D1 here. If I'm not here, well sorry for my undistinguished D1.

Post 662, a bit under 3 hours before EOD. This is... less good, mainly because it deviates from the flipped wolf (Syn), doesn't mention Syn at all when Vanta had previously been open to voting Syn, and there was also a promise to read Syn and ladd that was never followed up on. Now, obviously Logic is unflipped so we don't know if Vanta was going from a wolf to a different wolf, but Syn was very much in contention and Vanta did go elsewhere, specifically the counter.

Verdict here is mixed. I did like their earlier posts on Syn that I quoted, but at a certain point, vibes can only take you so far. Priority slot if Logic is town. Probably ok if Logic is mafia.


dyachei/Visor

I feel like, holistically, there has to be exactly one in these two. Along with Arctic (and myself, but I'm town), they were probably the two most notable "Syn skeptics" who basically said some variant of "meh Syn is rand, I don't care". I'm gonna make an assumption here that the D1 elimination was not a major inflection point of the game. Regardless of whether Syn actively gave the green light to bus or not, the wolves had to know that Syn was not long for the world, even if they survived D1. Could be D2, could be D3, could be a vig shot, but Syn was always going down at some point. This was not a slot you stick your neck out for, basically.

Since this was not a slot you stick your neck out for, I'm going to make a second assumption: that the wolves did their traditional strategy when dealing with a drawing-dead partner: spread out and hide in the numbers rather than put all your eggs in once basket. Take differing, if not opposing, viewpoints about major stuff. Considering Syn's standing in the thread, I think Visor's and dya's stances on Syn are too similar for them to both be on the same team. They both exerted roughly equivalent efforts to save Syn: dya by shopping around for a counterwagon at EOD, Visor by trying to create one a few hours prior. I don't see 75% of this mafia team (counting Syn) to be this invested in keeping Syn alive, and I don't think they're both town either just from vague gamestate feels, so we're left with one in two.

Each has problems. Visor has been generally underwhelming, lacking that joie de vivre as a number of people have mentioned. I wish he had some D2 posts to his name so I can better get a handle on him, because I think that will help me, but what's down so far can charitably described as "incomplete", I think. His most recent outright stance on Logic was here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Logics posts on the last page are still bad lmao

I'll be back around EOD but won't be there for it obv

But later he pooh pooh'd a Gemma readslist that effectively had Logic as null (frustrating for me looking back) and then pivoted to going after Murska in his final sequence of posts on D1, without much elaboration, ending in directly appealing to Zack and myself for wagon support.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

@Zack
@GeneralHankerchief

kill murska

All of this is in his wheelhouse as either alignment, as I've already discussed. The main issue is that there's just more fire, more followable a-to-b-to-c progression when he's done it as town. Could this be because he's got other stuff going on? Certainly. But it could also be because he's got other stuff going on while having randed wolf. I don't want to get this read wrong because I've already pissed off Zack itg and don't want to do it to the other person I chat the most with, but realistically speaking I can't point to anything concrete Visor has done in the game and say with a straight face, "this is villagery".

As for dya, it's very simple: dya took an approach to me that was extremely similar to one they took to me as w/v (they were the w) in an Org game from a few years back. ladd pointed this out already on d1 I believe, but I'll go and grab the posts for comparison:

Previous game (from 2019):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

kind of a weird read but I kind of like that GH stepped away from the game after the hydra game ended. feels like if he were wolfing he'd be more likely to try hard after a loss there

you really think so?

he seemed pretty tired to wolf by the end

also see ya, zack. Hopefully we are still both around tmr but our free times this game don't seem to coincide much

He was but like...I feel like he makes himself tryhard as a wolf

he powerwolfs to a fault. just ask him about mion and shion...

This game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

don't tell GH but I am stoked he's playing again

also I think he's v so far but we're still in shitposting

based on what?

gut feeling is part of it

also he's not tryharding and like...he tends to when he wolfs because he doesn't want to let his team down

that's why i gave a caveat

GH tries harder as a wolf though and he likely would have tried to do something by now if he were a wolf. The very fact he's doing nothing is kind of a good look

Don’t really like dyas read on GH for reasons Zack kinda outlined and again I’m kinda frustrated he made the point before me but also just kinda accepting he’s a villager for pre-melding on my thoughts before I catch up with the thread

I just kinda think at best the read is wanting but I also feel like dya would temper the wanting a bit this early. Also feels like a struggly way to get into the thread groove

i I don’t wanna harp on it cause I’ll feel bad if wrong but ya

time to feel bad then

It's a real read I have and yeah there's some want there because the best time I've ever had in a game was when Jan and GH were both village in 2017's anni

But it's also based on what I know about GH and just because it's wanting doesn't make it less valid

This on its own isn't the full picture, largely because the read is correct and for the right reasons, but I will specifically note that by the time I stopped playing in 2021, dya was typically gaining early accurate reads on me NOT from my investment/seriousness level or lack thereof, but from my early tone. They were really good at pummeling me for awkward openings as a wolf and did not hesitate to tell me as such to the point where I was seriously strategizing about entering the thread late as all alignments just to dodge that read (until I stopped playing, of course). So dya reading me for this reason, here, and not mentioning the other aspect, does stick out to me.

As for the aspects of their posting beyond me, it's mixed. I already talked about the Syn stuff, it's no better or worse than Visor's imo, so that's a wash. In terms of the Arctic thing, dya is capable of pulling that off (both the read and the argument) as either alignment and I'm not able to get a lean on that either way in isolation. The turnaround on Logic on D2 to me is a bit awkward. I can sort of see the argument dya makes but it's causing me to make one too many jumps in progression to get there and that's not great. Like it went from "I think GH is town > GH says Logic is town > Zack I know you say Logic's a wolf but I'm aware of GH's history with Logic and not yours so I'm placing higher emphasis on that" to "if Logic was villaging, the wolves would have been able to push him over Syn at EOD > so GH is a wolf with him huh" and I feel like there are a number of perfectly plausible explanations for why Syn went over D1 that went unaddressed and I have a hard time with dya not really paying lip service to those, it feels like they ran the numbers overnight and realized that I had to be a miselim if they wanted to win the game and acted accordingly (Logic's alignment still pending ofc).

Final verdict, one in dya/Visor, leaning dya right now.

---

Overall readslist, excepting Logic and myself, look something like this:

Claimed PR:
Murska

Town:
Rask
ladd

Wisdom
Jan

Tinfoil town:
Hally

benneh

On the right side of the POE:
Arctic
Ender

Dependent on Logic's flip:
Vanta Black

POE:
Gemma

POE, exactly 1 of the two:
Visor
dyachei



I'm going to eat dinner and play video games now.

[Hally]

i don’t wanna jump the gun but ender’s posts so far today are super rough ngl

I absolutely hated the self-meta post from Arctic tbh. It felt like a standard "I could do better and knew it and now people are undervaluing that."

Also someone posted something about "Maybe there WASN'T bussers and people are reading too much into the kill!" which... feels very wolfy to me.

I'm trying to find it currently but I read it when I was on my phone at 7am and blearily getting ready for work.

Okay found it.

It's Arctic as well.

Is Hally gonna kill me if I vote Arctic?

Find out in... whenever Hally checks again.

Vote: Arctic

I suppose this is where I mention that I hate "Never busses" metas because they get a free win out of bussing and I just don't like that.

Also on that note "Genuinely working through the game" maybe but his takes have existed in that weird liminal space where it's off the wall but not like the Wisdom townread "At odds with thread". They seem aware of thread but fighting against the flow. (See my comment about their "but maybe it's not because wolves bussed? :plead:" post.)

this push is genuinely terrible lol

his main wolf read on D2 after a wolf flip boils down to self metaing and NK speculation

the last part in particular just seems like nonsense? arctic’s main wolf reads afaict are visor, gh and gemma which is perfectly in line with the rest of thread so i don’t get what he’s talking about or how it would be wolfy even if it was true


also him trying to push ladd but backing off immediately when he gets pushback does not spark joy

[Wisdom]

GH- That terrible hydra bus still keeps me awake at night. It's the main reason I started learning how to powerwolf and I think that I since learned the difference between a strategic and a stupid bus.

That said, here's a 3 year late apology for how I treated slot that game.

[Logic]

Ok, I suppose you're all owed some actual effort from me. I wanted to just vibe in this game and phaff around while other people actually did the solving, but events have taken their course and vibing ain't gonna cut it. So let's just do this, get it out of the way, and hope it's good enough for me to coast for the rest of the game until hopefully I get cleared through associatives or something so I don't have to do this again.

In this post I will discuss every player aside from Murska and Logic. This will be in no particular order.




Rask/ladd

Don't think I need to belabor the point here. Town. Rask higher than ladd but it shouldn't matter.


Jan

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not the best Jan reader. He's a tricksy wolf who's fooled me at least once in the past (caveat: it was a mash, so transcribe it to this type of game at your peril) and I find myself naturally gravitating towards townreading his typical tone.

That said, we had two clear points of agreement on D1 that go beyond the typical "gud t0an" stuff that make me feel more confident about my Jan read at this point. The first was early in the game, re: Arctic's initial posting:



If you don't remember, Arctic had a corker of an entry D1 that kept oscillating between "plain old bad" and "self-aware about how bad it was but still persisting and still being bad". Back when I was still in my shitposting phase, I did spend some amount of thought on those posts and eventually decided it was a straight-up case of TWTBAW, and Jan came to the same conclusion as me without any sort of prompting from me (since, again, I was still in my shitposting phase).

The second was his mid-d1 post about Gemma:



I'm not going to pretend I had the same thought as Jan here independently, but I *did* read Gemma's initial entry into the thread and had just a minor tingle of "huh" about it, and Jan putting it into this context was both a) a coherent thought and b) showed good thoughts about the thread and game as a whole. Gemma, to my knowledge has still not really addressed the crux of this point but I'll talk more about that later. I'll finish the Jan section by saying that he was also reasonably early on Syn (made several comments mid d1 about Syn "conceding" after sustaining the first major push from Rask that I don't think a wolf would say about a wolfbro right off the bat) and while his posts so far on D2 haven't been anything a good wolf couldn't fake, he's also given me no reason to doubt my good feelings about him from D1. Town.


Wisdom

Partly relying on old meta here, and this might out one of my old alts on MU but hell with it lol.

I played two games with Wisdom in 2021 (the year I stopped playing). The first was a team mafia game where we were both wolfbros and both in on the same day, d1. In that game, there were a lot of meandering observations, nothing questions, and a truly horrendous bus vote on me that even I, deep into my powerwolf meta, had a hard time with spinning even though I specifically made a post designed to clear all of my teammates currently bussing me (I deeply despise that game, in case you couldn't tell ).

The second was a game a couple months later when I was on an alt, and Wisdom was more to the point, happy to lucky, and while they were a bit off-kilter in their solving in terms of how she worked with the consensus, there was still, you know, solving. I eventually helped mislunch her (I was town) later on in the game when she was ensconced in my POE, but even though her demise was telegraphed pretty early on in that day she was still cheerfully solving the entire time and I did have those niggling little vibes that I was going down the wrong path here, which I naturally ignored.

After a false start, Wisdom appears firmly in her town meta to me here.


benneh (nebjiamn)

Was quick to point out on multiple occasions on D1 that he was still well within both his ranges, which I agreed with at the time. I still agree with it now, 8-9 hours into D2 tbh. Out of the people generally not coming under fire, I feel like benneh's been the most skate-y. He's been content to just be chill, not super rock the boat much, and vibe with whoever happens to be in the thread at the time. (in other words he's seized by force the niche I wanted to occupy, and I will forever hate him for it ) His biggest, most notable push on D2, has been Visor, which sure, Visor's a popular guy today, but I don't actually think he's pushing the game forward much.

There's been some testing the waters on Arctic here, Gemma here but there's no followup with them and a bit later on he says his main disagreement with dya is that they put Arctic third from the bottom on a readslist. For the most part, he's been cool with just focusing in on the bottom group of the POE today.

Now, that's fine, considering I haven't done a damn thing today lol, and it could be benneh's just doing the standard villa thing of voicing some of his more outlier thoughts as he tries to focus on what's most likely going to be relevant at EOD, BUT! I also see a very possible explanation where he's seeding the thread and setting up for the future.

So I'll conclude this segment by saying that benneh's not out of either range by a longshot. Tinfoil town.


Arctic

Horrendous gamestart, discussed in Jan's section. Felt like TWTBAW to me. Arctic is in a weird position because, unless the MU social dynamics have changed since I mostly left the scene, Arctic is probably one of the more isolated folks in this specific playerlist (going off joindate this is Arctic's first Org game, for example). That's always gonna bring some awkwardness when you're a guest at the established club, so to speak, and that does have to be taken into account when reading into things. So let's set tone to the side for this and talk about his actual content.

We'll start with the negatives. These posts on Syn isn't great:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(previous two were midd1, the one below is eod1:)

There's been some talk about the "Syn skeptics", I'll call it, and I'll talk more about that later on in this post, but I think Arctic's stance on Syn has gone under the radar a bit and it's not great. We have a couple posts of the classic "wolf in a tough spot when dealing with a bro getting heat" where Arctic acknowledges the wagon because they have to, but then just kind of waves it off and goes about their business. They may have gotten taken by surprise by the Syn wagon in general because they expressed skepticism about both Rask and more notably ladd on d1, but otoh a wolf might be more in tune with threadflow stuff and try to work around it?

I have liked a number of Arctic's contributions. I feel like there's a real effort to get complete or near-complete stances on everyone in the game, and Arctic has also been one of the people beating the drum on Gemma, who I feel like has gotten lost in the shuffle and could very well be a wolf here. But the associatives toward Syn aren't great and bear monitoring for the future. Mixed, GTH town.


Hally

First, the overarching impression I get in this game is that hally is quite comfortable ITT. Hally's "peak" so to speak on MU coincided with the terminal stages of my decline so I never quite got the full decoder on their playstyle, but from what I can remember they were considerably more awkward in the thread when wolfing and I'm not really seeing much evidence of that here.

In terms of content, hally gets a minor point for being in agreement with myself and Jan over Arctic's entry posts (and was even more on the nose with me in terms of it than Jan, fwiw), but later this translates to getting into it with Arctic a bit over Rask of all people, that's aged somewhat well.

There's actually not a lot in hally's reads beyond their chats with Arctic (they have since switched up to Arctic looking better from EOD1) and then their big push on Logic, which I won't be discussing here for raisins. There's not a lot of moving the game forward really, just chilling in the thread similar to benneh. No reason to dislike their posts but hally is definitely going with the flow for the most part. Tinfoil town, would probably rank a tick higher than benneh for nebulous + tonal reasons.


EnderWiggin

Ok, let's talk about the Syn vote. Rask was first on, in post #365, after making a series of posts where he really honed in on his target. Syn's response, a single word, "mean", was post 366. Ender's vote came in at 367, nakedly a pile-on, and remained there for the rest of d1. Syn picked up another vote from Murska an hour or two later and was tied for the lead (with Ender himself) as of Taffy's 24hr vote count.

This was ender's rationale for doing so, as a tack-on to post 380:



He had some suspicion about Jan later on in d1, which I suppose could be read as testing the waters to see if he could get off, but Jan was pretty consensus town at that point. If he wanted off Syn, why not go to, like, [literally anyone in the me/Logic/dya/Gemma/etc general POE who was town]? This isn't a hypothetical w!benneh situation where he's setting stuff up for down the road, this would be a world where he just wants to get off a wagon that got too hot and not look terrible in the process, and this isn't what it looks like imo.

A little iconoclastic with a townread on dya with very little actual explanation here, and that's about it for d1. He notably was around for EOD1 and could switch off Syn, but chose not too. Not sure how much I should read into this.

Has, in general, given off the impression that he's having a good time ITT, which I should probably be placing less emphasis on than I am. I am aware that he's come back in the thread D2 since I started writing this up, but I'm not gonna go over it with a fine toothed comb. Yet. Bottom line, I don't think the Syn vote was a bus, seems fine for now.


Gemma

Really need some new posts from them, feels like the fourth time I've gone over their exact same posts in the past few days with very little additional context.

Gemma is part of that group in general who have actually not said very much about the game as a whole. Others in it are Visor, Syn, and, I suppose, myself to some extent. They started off hot with a vote against me and giving off the impression it was serious with the following sequence:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

but as Jan mentioned, I had not actually started playing the game at that point so that sequence was very much out of place as a whole. What was there to shade me about?

There's a number of reads sprinkled through Gemma's iso but they're all sporadic, mostly one-liners, and pretty disconnected from each other. Very doable for a wolf to fake, basically. There's some questioning, asking to elaborate on reads and the like, but there's not much if any actual follow-up. I'm trying to get a picture of Gemma's overall view of the gamestate from their iso and out of everybody I've looked at so far I'm just not seeing it really. It's all disjointed. Like I want to write more here because this is a slot of particular interest to me, but I just can't. POE, in danger of slipping beneath notice.


Vanta Black:

This one's an annoying one to pin down for me, because it's felt like Vanta's on the cusp of actually putting together a sustained sequence of thoughts that will help me get to where they're at with stuff... and then they dip. So let's work with what I can.



Post 342, about 18 hours into the game. Not the worst look imo.



Post 516, something like 30 hours in. This is also pretty decent, correctly honing in on Syn but not looking especially bussy while doing so. Just a straight up "yeah Syn's voters seem cool, let's roll with this for now".



Post 662, a bit under 3 hours before EOD. This is... less good, mainly because it deviates from the flipped wolf (Syn), doesn't mention Syn at all when Vanta had previously been open to voting Syn, and there was also a promise to read Syn and ladd that was never followed up on. Now, obviously Logic is unflipped so we don't know if Vanta was going from a wolf to a different wolf, but Syn was very much in contention and Vanta did go elsewhere, specifically the counter.

Verdict here is mixed. I did like their earlier posts on Syn that I quoted, but at a certain point, vibes can only take you so far. Priority slot if Logic is town. Probably ok if Logic is mafia.


dyachei/Visor

I feel like, holistically, there has to be exactly one in these two. Along with Arctic (and myself, but I'm town), they were probably the two most notable "Syn skeptics" who basically said some variant of "meh Syn is rand, I don't care". I'm gonna make an assumption here that the D1 elimination was not a major inflection point of the game. Regardless of whether Syn actively gave the green light to bus or not, the wolves had to know that Syn was not long for the world, even if they survived D1. Could be D2, could be D3, could be a vig shot, but Syn was always going down at some point. This was not a slot you stick your neck out for, basically.

Since this was not a slot you stick your neck out for, I'm going to make a second assumption: that the wolves did their traditional strategy when dealing with a drawing-dead partner: spread out and hide in the numbers rather than put all your eggs in once basket. Take differing, if not opposing, viewpoints about major stuff. Considering Syn's standing in the thread, I think Visor's and dya's stances on Syn are too similar for them to both be on the same team. They both exerted roughly equivalent efforts to save Syn: dya by shopping around for a counterwagon at EOD, Visor by trying to create one a few hours prior. I don't see 75% of this mafia team (counting Syn) to be this invested in keeping Syn alive, and I don't think they're both town either just from vague gamestate feels, so we're left with one in two.

Each has problems. Visor has been generally underwhelming, lacking that joie de vivre as a number of people have mentioned. I wish he had some D2 posts to his name so I can better get a handle on him, because I think that will help me, but what's down so far can charitably described as "incomplete", I think. His most recent outright stance on Logic was here:



But later he pooh pooh'd a Gemma readslist that effectively had Logic as null (frustrating for me looking back) and then pivoted to going after Murska in his final sequence of posts on D1, without much elaboration, ending in directly appealing to Zack and myself for wagon support.



All of this is in his wheelhouse as either alignment, as I've already discussed. The main issue is that there's just more fire, more followable a-to-b-to-c progression when he's done it as town. Could this be because he's got other stuff going on? Certainly. But it could also be because he's got other stuff going on while having randed wolf. I don't want to get this read wrong because I've already pissed off Zack itg and don't want to do it to the other person I chat the most with, but realistically speaking I can't point to anything concrete Visor has done in the game and say with a straight face, "this is villagery".

As for dya, it's very simple: dya took an approach to me that was extremely similar to one they took to me as w/v (they were the w) in an Org game from a few years back. ladd pointed this out already on d1 I believe, but I'll go and grab the posts for comparison:

Previous game (from 2019):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This on its own isn't the full picture, largely because the read is correct and for the right reasons, but I will specifically note that by the time I stopped playing in 2021, dya was typically gaining early accurate reads on me NOT from my investment/seriousness level or lack thereof, but from my early tone. They were really good at pummeling me for awkward openings as a wolf and did not hesitate to tell me as such to the point where I was seriously strategizing about entering the thread late as all alignments just to dodge that read (until I stopped playing, of course). So dya reading me for this reason, here, and not mentioning the other aspect, does stick out to me.

As for the aspects of their posting beyond me, it's mixed. I already talked about the Syn stuff, it's no better or worse than Visor's imo, so that's a wash. In terms of the Arctic thing, dya is capable of pulling that off (both the read and the argument) as either alignment and I'm not able to get a lean on that either way in isolation. The turnaround on Logic on D2 to me is a bit awkward. I can sort of see the argument dya makes but it's causing me to make one too many jumps in progression to get there and that's not great. Like it went from "I think GH is town > GH says Logic is town > Zack I know you say Logic's a wolf but I'm aware of GH's history with Logic and not yours so I'm placing higher emphasis on that" to "if Logic was villaging, the wolves would have been able to push him over Syn at EOD > so GH is a wolf with him huh" and I feel like there are a number of perfectly plausible explanations for why Syn went over D1 that went unaddressed and I have a hard time with dya not really paying lip service to those, it feels like they ran the numbers overnight and realized that I had to be a miselim if they wanted to win the game and acted accordingly (Logic's alignment still pending ofc).

Final verdict, one in dya/Visor, leaning dya right now.

---

Overall readslist, excepting Logic and myself, look something like this:

Claimed PR:
Murska

Town:
Rask
ladd

Wisdom
Jan

Tinfoil town:
Hally

benneh

On the right side of the POE:
Arctic
Ender

Dependent on Logic's flip:
Vanta Black

POE:
Gemma

POE, exactly 1 of the two:
Visor
dyachei



I'm going to eat dinner and play video games now.

I read the GH wall, and I think with a single exception, looks holistically consistent.

The words used to describe Arctic don't quite seem to line up with his final call there.

[dyachei]

Does your read on me really boil down to you expected me to.make a tone read on you after 3 years of not playing games with you or even seeing you around much at all?

I think that's a pretty unreasonable expectation.

21/50

[Murska]

In this post I will discuss every player aside from Murska and Logic. This will be in no particular order.

This makes me sad.

Seriously though, nice effortpost. good to see where your head's at.

[nebjiamn]

He's been content to just be chill, not super rock the boat much

idt much needs to be rocked today. by my estimation, the lunch is ~always between visor and logic and i am a big fan of those wagons (moreso visor atm). but i also don't think this is accurate? dare i say i was the person who first started clearing and building what is now the accepted towncore for the game in rask/jan/ladd(and previously zack) and even hally a bit

i also pushed on you and i think you'd probly agree regardless of ur alignment that's not a 'don't rock the boat' push for anyone in this list


as for the rest of your list i don't really get why you're leaning dya over visor here even though i read your whys. i feel like ur stuck on something with them that probably doesn't matter but ur giving visor the benefit of the doubt* when i think he deserves it far less than dya rn?

*i know you're not actually giving visor 'the benefit of the doubt' since you called that dichotomy to have a wolf but i hope my point is clear

[nebjiamn]

id probly townclear logic right now just off the fact that he's leading in posts lol

he's well past the give up stage isn't he

ok this is dumb

[Logic]

id probly townclear logic right now just off the fact that he's leading in posts lol

he's well past the give up stage isn't he

ok this is dumb

I wouldn't start there, if I were you.

I'm well past my old "low volume equals scumtell."

[Totally not Taffy]

How tf is there another character called "Moist"?!

Vote Count

Visor (4) : Raskolnikov, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Dyachei (1) : Logic
Logic (1) : Dyachei
Arctic (1) : Ender

Haven't voted: Visor, Murska, Arctic, Ladd, Vanta, Jan, GH, Gemma

Haven't posted today: Gemma, Visor

Vote History
If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vote: Visor

Vote: Visor

Vote: Dya

Vote: Visor

vote: visor

vote: logic

Vote: Arctic

Post Counts

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EoD1 post counts for easy math:

This is 3am. You're all spoiled, and you owe me flowers.

[EnderWiggin]

agreed.

I'd reserve judgement on your mum though. (tbh I fail to see a world where Ladd is a wolf with respect to his treatment of Syn)

Think Arctic's reaction to some of my posts at EOD was villagery

Yeah I've been poked about my inability to remember Ladd's early push before the vote by a few people already.

I'll do a reread of EOD but I still don't want Arctic to dip under the radar.

the last part in particular just seems like nonsense? arctic’s main wolf reads afaict are visor, gh and gemma which is perfectly in line with the rest of thread so i don’t get what he’s talking about or how it would be wolfy even if it was true


also him trying to push ladd but backing off immediately when he gets pushback does not spark joy

To answer the top: I'm not explicitly talking about his wolfreads. I'm talking about the flow/understanding of the game esp around the read on the night kills. (If he's wolf he'd know wolves have bussed and a bunch of townies saying wolves probably bussed isn't good for them so a soft wristed attempt to push back on that is in wolves interest.)

Had nothing to do with pushback. I'm pretty sure only Ladd had really responded when I started backing off. It was Ladd pointing out that I'd completely misremembered something (although not to the extent he remembered either =P) that made me realise the basis for my thought was bunk.

And yes this does make twice now I've misremembered stuff about Ladd so maybe I need to stop posting there before re-reading.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Following up, I've read/reread Ender's d2 posts from a few hours ago and they seem decent enough to me, not gonna move him up a tier in my reads but don't really have any interest in moving him down either.

Onto responses to my big post:

Does your read on me really boil down to you expected me to.make a tone read on you after 3 years of not playing games with you or even seeing you around much at all?

I think that's a pretty unreasonable expectation.

21/50

No. It is an aspect of it. It is not the full picture, but it is part of the picture. If you genuinely came away from that post with that thought that that aspect was the main crux of my case against you, I apologize, that was not my intent. It was a combination of that + me not fully believing your turnaround on Logic using the stated reasoning + my belief that there's one in you/Visor and, yes, perhaps me giving Visor somewhat of the benefit of the doubt as benneh mentioned + general POE stuff (which also plays a part in me thinking there's exactly one in you/Visor and not just the both of you being v/v, because then who are the wolves lol).

idt much needs to be rocked today. by my estimation, the lunch is ~always between visor and logic and i am a big fan of those wagons (moreso visor atm). but i also don't think this is accurate? dare i say i was the person who first started clearing and building what is now the accepted towncore for the game in rask/jan/ladd(and previously zack) and even hally a bit

i also pushed on you and i think you'd probly agree regardless of ur alignment that's not a 'don't rock the boat' push for anyone in this list


as for the rest of your list i don't really get why you're leaning dya over visor here even though i read your whys. i feel like ur stuck on something with them that probably doesn't matter but ur giving visor the benefit of the doubt* when i think he deserves it far less than dya rn?

*i know you're not actually giving visor 'the benefit of the doubt' since you called that dichotomy to have a wolf but i hope my point is clear

I'll admit that I did not concentrate on the "big part in building the towncore" aspect of your posts when going back over your stuff (and I don't want to do it now because I've already spent too much time as it is going back over stuff), so I'll straight up give you THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT on that one. However, in terms of the "pushing GH not being a 'don't rock the boat' example", I'm gonna push back on that - I started catching heat to various degrees shortly after I actually started playing this game for real and I was quite pushable for a good period of time back in 2020/21 even before I stopped playing. You may not be aware of this, but others itg (ladd, hally, probably dya?) can attest to as much.

As for giving Visor the benefit of the doubt, probably fair. Zack/me getting as heated as it did on d1 did shake me up a bit and it's probably spilling over. I'll see how he posts once he comes back and go from there.

[EnderWiggin]

Wild change of mind time.

We veering at 360 speeds on this road.

Vote: Gemma

So I was rereading D1 to get a feel of Arctic (And hopefully a case) when I started reading Gemma posts and have now decided that her townreading me when I was feeling attacked has meant I've ignored her slot probably more than I should've?

[dyachei]

so why are you giving visor benefit of the doubt while you assume I should be able to tone read you this far out

My turn around on logic was because zack died repping a very strong wolf read there and my reason for v reading you was not the strongest reason to begin with, though I did believe it day 1.

I've done a lot more than visor has that should make me readable

22/50

[Logic]

I'm now going to give opinions on some of my current blind spots after looking in their ISOs, starting with the lowest posters.

This order shall be
Murska (claimed doc)
Gemma (I townread early and haven't revisited)
Wisdom (I think I was last on a "slightly sus" read)

First up, Murska:

Murska's opening in p#84 is getting into the game immediately (and he says as much.) I like that he's got opinions right out of the gate.
The slightly hedgey wolfread of arctic in p#89 that early feels a bit odd. Putting a pin in this to recheck arctic's early posts in my next entry for this format, as I've got him in my "blindspots" as well.
I like murska's counter to Jan in p#94. I think this looks like he's invested in solving the game, albeit a tad on the shallow side.
P#155 looks to be spewing Rask and benneh town if murska wolf (though everyone else seems to be dead set on that Rask read regardless.)
P#371 is the vote for syn, (I didn't see an earlier vote, but this post claims that murska was voting elsewhere prior) and I have no idea where in the wagon he ended up. I don't think the words of suspicion towards ender quite line up with the vote cast against syn, as murska calls it out explicitly as "see what happens." It's a bit laissez faire, so if the syn wagon was already taking off, I don't know if I give this vote any credit
Edit in so as to not retype everything above Murska's actual opening post is a vote for arctic, the one I call opening post above was the first because the post count cutoff is set to 25, and Murska has 26 posts at the time of my writing this post. End line item edit
P#377 I like the "WTF bro" directed at Jan. It makes me think not w/w, but I think it's softball enough that this could be thrown at a partner. (At this point, this is not commentary on me thinking Jan and murska are actually a team, this is me sharing my thoughts as I have them)
P#379 I don't like this slight backtrack. (It's barely a backtrack) but it's fairly defensive. Considering he just got on jans case about being defensive, I'm chalking this up more to indignant villager than anything else. Towny hypocriticism, I guess.
P#546 p#549 p#567 meh. Not really seeing anything AI about these three
P#697 is the claim, (and I feel like a bad friend, because I either forgot or didn't know that murska was Euro)
P#721 is where murska's reads are 30 minutes to EOD
P#725, p#729, p#760 don't look good to me, but I'm biased as I'm the subject of this switch. I kinda don't think he believes the final vote ending in syn, based on what he said in the prior two posts.
P#780 SOD protective claim on Rask

And at this point I've lost motivation to finish this ISO, let alone two more. So here's my post up to this point.