17er Saints and Martyrs

[Vanta Black]

ok coming back to this because I don't want to be jerkish. But like you ok process/results. Now explain to me why Benneh being killed last night points specifically to Ender. With posts/reads/etc. I am just trying to understand if that's real or just the fact you saw it'd be your only path to victory so yoloed it.

Ah okay. It's actually one process (pretend I'm scum, who am I not killing and why), and then also me deciding who is most likely to be NK tonight, kind of another process entirely. For the one I get Ender, for the other I get Benneh. Benneh is NK, so I was right with one, so maybe I'm right with the other.

Now I'm thinking not.

There was only a slight correlation and I didn't explain well, possibly not here either.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't see what's so complicated about his pov unless I'm just assuming it's for the same think I was thinking which was that benneh didn't have ender as town but me and you did

it's not complicated lmao.

What has been complicated is getting her to actually type it.
Also it's BS because whoever is the wolf needed Benneh dead. Both him and I were basically unyeetable but he is a better player (this post will self-erase in 30 seconds). so like y.

I wanted to understand if she believed in what she was saying or as I said, if she saw it was her only path to victory.

[Raskolnikov]

Ah okay. It's actually one process (pretend I'm scum, who am I not killing and why), and then also me deciding who is most likely to be NK tonight, kind of another process entirely. For the one I get Ender, for the other I get Benneh. Benneh is NK, so I was right with one, so maybe I'm right with the other.

Now I'm thinking not.

There was only a slight correlation and I didn't explain well, possibly not here either.

See Arctic, I am still not getting the "if then ;else;" of the first process which is what is interesting me. I think I have asked it pretty clearly, repeatdly and nicely lol. But still no words. Guess it's a lie heh.

fwiw I do not care about the second process giving Benneh. As explained, that was always the case. So not so usefull to get the solve.

[Hally]

oh this reminds me

yesterday i took a look at syn’s posts when he was a villager in the two motion detect games he and dya played on here together to see if it was plausible that v!dya could think syn was completely rand this game based on meta

and my conclusion was that he did seem different enough from his town games that dya probably should not have thought he was rand but probably not different enough that them thinking he was rand is like outing

extremely helpful post yw

[Hally]

it's not complicated lmao.

What has been complicated is getting her to actually type it.
Also it's BS because whoever is the wolf needed Benneh dead. Both him and I were basically unyeetable but he is a better player (this post will self-erase in 30 seconds). so like y.

I wanted to understand if she believed in what she was saying or as I said, if she saw it was her only path to victory.

tbf i’m not sure vanta knows who benneh is so they couldn’t know what a mistake it was to kill such a bum

(though maybe they could pick it up from wolfchat when they discussed who to kill)

[Raskolnikov]

oh this reminds me

yesterday i took a look at syn’s posts when he was a villager in the two motion detect games he and dya played on here together to see if it was plausible that v!dya could think syn was completely rand this game based on meta

and my conclusion was that he did seem different enough from his town games that dya probably should not have thought he was rand but probably not different enough that them thinking he was rand is like outing

extremely helpful post yw

node, very usefull

@Vanta: sorry to sound agro. I am just gueninely frustrated by your replies toDay. I am not shrug voting you because it's likely our last available ML if we fail so I wanna take the time lol

[dyachei]

Vote: vanta

I have no energy for today. I expended it all looking at Gemma iso

[Arctic]

This and some other GH posts are pinging me today. I have been in some games where the wolves just loved coming into the thread and "speculating" about the reasons for the NK.

From my POV Logic was the least likely NK. Or maybe third from last.

ironic

[Hally]

rask ngl i don’t really get why you have such an issue with vanta’s posts today

i mean i wish they would talk about literally anything else besides the kill but i don’t think NK speculation is wolfy in a vacuum

[Hally]

i still feel like nobody has actually offered any reason why vanta is wolfy and i’m not really down to shrug lunch someone that nobody can articulate a case for the day before mylo when i’m probably gonna be the unlucky bozo with the hammer in F3 if we miss

[Raskolnikov]

I am just trying to solve her more reliably than "she is pure", "no wolf posts this because lol glgl", etc etc.

[Raskolnikov]

i still feel like nobody has actually offered any reason why vanta is wolfy and i’m not really down to shrug lunch someone that nobody can articulate a case for the day before mylo when i’m probably gonna be the unlucky bozo with the hammer in F3 if we miss

rn I'd say I am more likely to vote Dya anyway, but I wish to take all avenues before EOD.

(also, lettuce imagine we flip Dya and they are villa, I am so going for you in F4 after these last two posts )

[Arctic]

i've read all of vanta's posts and like... nothing is really pinging me in either direction honestly

i still have the thought that they don't really feel like a wolf because they'd have to be playing a god tier game for me to post across 7 days without leaking anything really implicating themselves

the only thing that doesn't quite add up is the thing hally brought up about the logic push based on logic voting them when they asked to be pushed but i.. don't really think i care much about a random contradiction on day 2, there should probably be something more if this is a wolf?

i guess what i keep coming back to is the thought on murska/rask being the deepwolves (1725 originally) - does a wolf come up with smth like this?? also does a wolf bother asking in the thread if the factional kill is mandatory instead of in wolf chat? i wanna say probably not

one other thing to note is that at the eod of the day we were killing logic, vanta dropped a post saying they'd also be willing to vote gemma or wisdom and i kinda don't think the wolf would quite want gemma to die there just yet. maybe it doesn't mean much because we were still clearly killing logic regardless of anything (at least when they made this post) but it's something to think about

i dunno if i should take issue with how they handled yesterday, it kinda felt like they already decided they were gonna push wisdom and i don't think they had much at all to say about dya other than thinking hally's case was good but still not really being willing to entertain a vote there. but their posts just before theyh thought they were gonna get hammered seem pretty convincing to me (page 80)

[Arctic]

i still feel like nobody has actually offered any reason why vanta is wolfy and i’m not really down to shrug lunch someone that nobody can articulate a case for the day before mylo when i’m probably gonna be the unlucky bozo with the hammer in F3 if we miss

we all know you just want to keep the shrug lynch around for the free win in f3

[Arctic]

rn I'd say I am more likely to vote Dya anyway, but I wish to take all avenues before EOD.

(also, lettuce imagine we flip Dya and they are villa, I am so going for you in F4 after these last two posts )

lmaooo mindmeld

[Vanta Black]

rask ngl i don’t really get why you have such an issue with vanta’s posts today

i mean i wish they would talk about literally anything else besides the kill but i don’t think NK speculation is wolfy in a vacuum

I will talk about literally anything else. I had a post where it sure looks to me like dya is nudging votes on Logic and GH but not visor, beig pressed a little on it, but in retrospect it doesn't look towny.

It is true that I don't know who Benneh is but is that important right now?

Also not important rn, probably, is to clarify that when Gemma put out that silly claim I knew it was fake, and silly, and I wanted to vote Gemma right then. But I didn't because I wasn't sure of the VC at that point and I didn't want to accidentally hammer. Keep in mind that I am coming from a board where plurality is the default and there is always a way to see the actual VC at the moment. Anyway I wanted to say something. So I kinda said the stupidest possible thing and that seems to have pinged Rask a bit. When he said I looked dodgy because of the claim I did not pick up what he was getting at, because I'm slow!

Right now I am leaning toward voting dya for a lot of what I think are good reasons.

[Hally]

rn I'd say I am more likely to vote Dya anyway, but I wish to take all avenues before EOD.

(also, lettuce imagine we flip Dya and they are villa, I am so going for you in F4 after these last two posts )

if they flip v i probably deserve that! good thing i can NK you first

[Hally]

I will talk about literally anything else. I had a post where it sure looks to me like dya is nudging votes on Logic and GH but not visor, beig pressed a little on it, but in retrospect it doesn't look towny.

It is true that I don't know who Benneh is but is that important right now?

Also not important rn, probably, is to clarify that when Gemma put out that silly claim I knew it was fake, and silly, and I wanted to vote Gemma right then. But I didn't because I wasn't sure of the VC at that point and I didn't want to accidentally hammer. Keep in mind that I am coming from a board where plurality is the default and there is always a way to see the actual VC at the moment. Anyway I wanted to say something. So I kinda said the stupidest possible thing and that seems to have pinged Rask a bit. When he said I looked dodgy because of the claim I did not pick up what he was getting at, because I'm slow!

Right now I am leaning toward voting dya for a lot of what I think are good reasons.

what reasons?

[dyachei]

Time for people to give solves for when I flip v

[Vanta Black]

Reasons for dya: D2, right after Zack flip with Zack having called out several players, dya comes right in and says clearly that means GH and Logic gotta be wolves, picking out two who turned out to be town out of all Zack had sussed; calls Arctic's vote at EoD1 "agendaed" when it was a vote on a wolf so what was the agenda? Agreed with a lot of Hally's case. Today: The bit about "I don't let my scumbuds call me happiness kryptonite" today, why say that now and not when it happened? It sounds like double distancing, first when Gemma said it and then again when Dya called it out.

(Also FML I keep typing "jan" when I mean to type "Gemma" I don't know what's my problem. Believe I have corrected all of them but possibly not.)

Oh yean and OMGUS, dya is now voting for a villager.

[Vanta Black]

Time for people to give solves for when I flip v

1. ender
2. Ender
3. Rask, who has been towning up the thread for days, which I know he can do. what I don't see is Rask cominng out of the gate bussing all three partners. I guess at first it was just the one, but it went on. At least I know he's not w/w with Murska!
4. Dya apparently thinks it's me, so same question to Dya, when I flip v then who?

[dyachei]

1. ender
2. Ender
3. Rask, who has been towning up the thread for days, which I know he can do. what I don't see is Rask cominng out of the gate bussing all three partners. I guess at first it was just the one, but it went on. At least I know he's not w/w with Murska!
4. Dya apparently thinks it's me, so same question to Dya, when I flip v then who?

I'm at you or ender I think. If I'm still alive tomorrow I'll give enders iso a read but I'm hoping it won't be my problem.

I think hally has potential with this push but I think the majority of her stuff has been towny outside this case

[dyachei]

Rask is always town here. Never entertain tinfoil there. He's never partnered with visor

[Hally]

dya why do you think it’s vanta over ender?

[dyachei]

dya why do you think it’s vanta over ender?

The way the other wolves have treated vanta have me concerned and ender has some things that make them seem unpaired like pushes on him.

[Arctic]

Why are you discounting wisdom as a wolf, hally? What reasons do you have that you're clearing her from your POE

what do you think about what I posted regarding the visor spew from before EOD2 when it was clear he was going over (I mostly pulled from d1)

on another note

this is the current player list
Ender
Wisdom
Raskolnikov
Dyachei
Murska
Logic
Arctic
Ladd
Vanta Black
Hally
Benneh
Gemma

And this is how I would order it rn
Benneh
murska
rask
arctic
hally
vanta
ladd
ender
wisdom
logic
gemma

this is ignoring gemma's claim but I'm willing to give another day there

dya also had gemma at the bottom of their list before we even killed logic

[Arctic]

i've now read all of dya's posts and uh

this sounds horrendous but it is legitimately the AtE that is the strongest reason i have to call them town and this is pretty dubious going off what hally said that they do this sort of thing as mafia (even if that were true i'm not sure it would be at this level - i kind of feel they were telling the truth with the boundaries they've set but this is kind of getting into questionable territory so uhhh idk). i also just think a lot of their reads like me/gh playing too badly to be town are genuine, wolves rarely say this kind of thing

588 might be the towniest post in this iso lol, i dunno what wolf has the thought of "oh i should pop back into the thread to make sure ladd isn't being cleared for no reason right after i said i was leaving"

the way they opened day 2 with the logic push on the basis that wolves never tried pushing over logic kind of tells me they would have the mindset as mafia to do what they're saying here if they were mafia, but they didn't - in fact i don't really know what wolf!dya is trying to accomplish at eod1 with v/w wagons, first by trying to get people to cfd me (wasn't gonna happen) or by then going on gemma (small chance of happening) so i kind of think the way they handled it makes them more likely to be town

don't have many thoughts on their posting on later days except that the read on vanta possibly TMI'ing them since they aren't familiar reads pretty good

so uhm
now i don't really think either of dya/vanta are the wolf so ok now what
i guess this means i have to read ender/hally
and probably check how "spewed" ender actually is cuz i lowkey kinda think it's him rn. every nightkill has thought he was a wolf or at least had him in their poe

[Arctic]

Reasons for dya: D2, right after Zack flip with Zack having called out several players, dya comes right in and says clearly that means GH and Logic gotta be wolves, picking out two who turned out to be town out of all Zack had sussed; calls Arctic's vote at EoD1 "agendaed" when it was a vote on a wolf so what was the agenda? Agreed with a lot of Hally's case. Today: The bit about "I don't let my scumbuds call me happiness kryptonite" today, why say that now and not when it happened? It sounds like double distancing, first when Gemma said it and then again when Dya called it out.

(Also FML I keep typing "jan" when I mean to type "Gemma" I don't know what's my problem. Believe I have corrected all of them but possibly not.)

Oh yean and OMGUS, dya is now voting for a villager.

these ar eall good points ngl so i feel like we're just at the point of the game where you can easily towncase and wolfcase anyone in the poe agh

[Vanta Black]

Went back over Syn, who did not mention any partners known so far, did mention Ender and said killing him would be fun.

[Hally]

The way the other wolves have treated vanta have me concerned and ender has some things that make them seem unpaired like pushes on him.

alright, well to answer you, if you flip v idfk

i agree associatives point more to vanta because i still think ender doesn’t look w/w with gemma

but maybe i’m crazy but just based on posting i actually feel vanta has been more pure? whereas ender particularly lately has played it more like how i would expect from a wolf if you’re v