Tarot Mafia

[didistetter]

@dyachei hiya dya :3

iirc you tr jan, and said somethin like he's being his typical towny self

ik a few other people have echoed this, but im curious:

what about his approach so far feels like: notably towny in a way you wouldn't expect from scum jan?

i think this has been one of the more thread consensusy reads im struggling to see so im curious to hear thoughts

he feels comfortable yeah—but comfortable and memeing is... extremely within jan's scum playbook?

is it more, you wouldnt wanna vote him d1?

or is there something there you think is actually town indicative?

[nebjiamn]

fun fact thats gonna piss u off:

one of the reasons im still FoSing you is i specifically wrote my intro with the intent of guaging ur reaction, assuming w!benneh would brush it off and v!benneh would reply "lol polarized noob" or something like that.

you didnt mention it till #214 where you called it whatever. its def not a top 10 opener by any means, but i suspect youd typically see it, roll your eyes, and think "noob town nerd"

instead you kinda talked around me in thread, and about me in a way that indicated you townread me but didnt want to offer a read on me.

that's kinda sure, fine, w/e. this is a game full of your old friends, i don't particularly expect interaction from anyone

buuuuuuuut the way you responded to reads on me while kinda noticeably avoiding reading me just *really* feels like your typical approach when you rand wolf lol.

don't wanna have to nk me, so avoid me and hope others do the dirty work

anyways you kinda guessed it right earlier not not fully

:popcorn2:

i legit read you like a book, lol

i didn't want to offer a direct/definitive read on you because it was straight up not conducive to game thread health (See: suki/hally in FTR, GH/logic in previous org games) and then ppl got going on your opener anyway so there was truly no need for me to belabor it fmpov

your last point about 'others doing the dirty work' is nonsense btw. if i'm a wolf what have i accomplished with this game plan when the game thread is largely towning you rn anyway?

on a side note, i made a conscious decision pre-game to try really hard to not make comments calling you a polarized noob/nerd (and other general abrasive/sarcastic comments @ others) cause im trying to be better and wanted to foster a cool chill environment as i invited u, and I didn't see value in mocking you earlier for sussing me while i had a tr on you

but i couldn't help it after you made a manual vote count

[nebjiamn]

as an aside, stop acting like you aren't a) good at the game and b) my friend

i'm not ignoring you in favor of posting with/at others, there's just been nothing i've been interested in vollying at you besides the few things i have but if you wana interact with me just ping me. i don't think i've been avoidant so idt the idea that i'm 'not interacting' with you is fair

[Gemma]

no but I want you to warm my cold, cold heart part 5 with some novel takes or something besides a suuuper cop out vanta vote

its not cop out at all i want them to do stuff

Can you elaborate on that last line?

if wolf shape of play matches what id expect from competent wolf with multiple incompetent or absent buds

[Maple]

Who do you think falls into that category?

[Gemma]

i legit read you like a book, lol

i didn't want to offer a direct/definitive read on you because it was straight up not conducive to game thread health (See: suki/hally in FTR, GH/logic in previous org games) and then ppl got going on your opener anyway so there was truly no need for me to belabor it fmpov

your last point about 'others doing the dirty work' is nonsense btw. if i'm a wolf what have i accomplished with this game plan when the game thread is largely towning you rn anyway?

on a side note, i made a conscious decision pre-game to try really hard to not make comments calling you a polarized noob/nerd (and other general abrasive/sarcastic comments @ others) cause im trying to be better and wanted to foster a cool chill environment as i invited u, and I didn't see value in mocking you earlier for sussing me while i had a tr on you

but i couldn't help it after you made a manual vote count

damn so that time u called me a nerd it wasnt a friendly banter

im cut :'(

[Gemma]

Who do you think falls into that category?

ur mom

[nebjiamn]

vote: enderwiggin

[sheepsaysmeep]

22. sheepsaysmeep

3. Didistetter
11. grr - I really buy the LAMIST (stuff from the thread as well) about how they are meta obviously town. especially if they are purportedly 'stilted' as wolf they seem comfortable here so ok lol
14. Wisdom
17. Newcomb I think - has been constantly trending up like throughout the day lol

12. EnderWiggin
13. insomnia

2. Arctic

1. dyachei - I actually would townread the no-nonsense vibe, but since they said beforehand they would be like this in an NAI way it is probably actually NAI
9. Jan
8. ladd - gut pings but he did dislike basically the exact same things about TKON that I did
16. ColonelLubriderm - had some towny moments but probably the most easily fakeable out of all the towny moments so far. actually now that I think about him I'd put him a tier lower maybe. seems like maybe he's trying too hard to have towny moments
20. Theknightsofneeee - unironically I think him making a mini deal out of "I have a decent chance to be elimmed today" and saying "im just struggling with this format" multiple times are kinda towny when I dont even think his situation was that bad and not really a self-defense approach that comes to mind for a wolf maybe
21. C0balt

-- I would maybe draw a line here ? --

5. nebjiamn
6. Sunbae

10. Gemma
18. Maple

(none of these are like actual outright scumreads TBH )

Separate category:

4. Vanta Black
19. Montmorency
7. Raskolnikov (just have no idea)
15. Syn

meh, I felt like maybe im townleaning people too generously so I tried a bit to compensate and I feel like I still am lol

if people want to ask for explanations or stuff there's a chance I do not want to blah blah

[Vanta Black]

Okay yeah fake GH being bop makes sense.

I'm less mad about it not being GH I guess; bop is a vibe in and of himself.

Although i'm not entirely sure if we've actually played together or not?

I feel like half the names on this playerlist I kinda know but don't really know if that makes sense

Might need like an interpreter or sherpa type person D1

maybe @Sunbae?

Speaking of an interpreter, there is much that I don't understand in these first pages but "fake GH being bop makes sense" in fact does not make sense. Maybe later.

[didistetter]

hiya vanta o/

as someone who's only seen you play as wolf before:

what's your typical approach to maf and interactions as town?

[Vanta Black]

Everybody just pretend I replaced in on D2 or late in d1. Had to spent the day catching up on stuff I had let slide. Will never be caught up. (IRL. In this game, maybe.)

[didistetter]

Vote: c0balt

my reads feel stragnant and i dont love that lol.

be more scummy scum pls n ty

[Gemma]

Everybody just pretend I replaced in on D2 or late in d1. Had to spent the day catching up on stuff I had let slide. Will never be caught up. (IRL. In this game, maybe.)

tbh just read some isos and do a proper catchup during nightphase

[sheepsaysmeep]

people keep referencing post #'s from like 300 posts before as if im going to like go back and and look at it for reference

[Vanta Black]

hiya vanta o/

as someone who's only seen you play as wolf before:

what's your typical approach to maf and interactions as town?

Hi stett!

Where did you see me play?

I am not a great scumhunter, and I don't think I have a typical approach. Kinda vibey, and I have had some good streaks where I identified scum but I'm not very persuasive at getting them voted. A lot of it is "gut feeling thisi player is town, will follow their vote," but I'm pretty strict about not voting my townreads no matter what.

Do not expect any walls from me. If I'm still here by D4 I will probably come up with a very outlandish theory to explain the game.

[Vanta Black]

people keep referencing post #'s from like 300 posts before as if im going to like go back and and look at it for reference

I hope you do't mean me, I quoted for this very reason

[Gemma]

I'm pretty strict about not voting my townreads no matter what.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I hope you do't mean me, I quoted for this very reason

nah

[sheepsaysmeep]

he hasnt really been forcing reads imo and has been more on topic than he is as a wolf. Like most of his posts are game related!

tbh this could be a TMI read because I don't feel like Jan has been thattt game related lol. but I dont have any points of reference for Jan

[ladd]

12. EnderWiggin

can you explain why you have ender so high?

8. ladd - gut pings but he did dislike basically the exact same things about TKON that I did

could you elaborate on what gut pings?

also my post on knights came after your push so i could have had nefarious intentions if you now think knights is a villager

20. Theknightsofneeee - unironically I think him making a mini deal out of "I have a decent chance to be elimmed today" and saying "im just struggling with this format" multiple times are kinda towny when I dont even think his situation was that bad and not really a self-defense approach that comes to mind for a wolf maybe

i think the struggling with format stuff is pretty squarely NAI, he coudl struggle with the format and still be a wolf

idk this turn around for these reasons given how much you hated his early posts seems a bit weird to me

if people want to ask for explanations or stuff there's a chance I do not want to blah blah

i'll try anyway

[ladd]

and if you had to guess if that even remotley stands a chance of hitting fur, what would you wager? @ladd

prolly not bad by sheer PoE; i also think if 1 is a wolf the other is super likely to be one too

[Newcomb]

Gonna ask everyone to indulge me here and put a vote down on your top wolfread and give some insight into why that's your preferred kill.

Game is starting to get interesting, whoever said we need to kind of raise the bar of what's considered villagery is deffo right - a lot of my light v reads should really not be cutting it at this point.

But yeah this isn't super feeling like a clearly defined game on D1 where I can already see how it's gonna play out - i'm hoping we can get some good info out of this day and some concrete votes / reasons here around the midway point will go a long way.

if you're skeptical or don't want to, let me just say forcing wolves to take stances is the best thing we can do right now

I'll start.

[Maple]

Watching a movie with the gals

The Lobster

Good times

[ladd]

Vote: Vanta

its not cop out at all i want them to do stuff

ngl i have a lot trouble believing this friendo


idk feels like a vote a villager doesnt make (in fact i am p sure visor as a wolf pushed vanta d1 in this exact same way lmao)

[ladd]

sure

vote:sheepsaysmeep


i am still most interested on knights/sheep alignment of all the players itg

I am busy until like -2/3 hours from eod so i'll see u then barring some pop ins

[Newcomb]

Knights is my preferred D1 right now. I don't have super high confidence it's a hit, as there hasn't been a smoking gun for me, plus their talk about their own elim did strike a decent chord with me.

However, they've done three classically wolf things IMO, and it's kinda that whole "once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action" type thing.

First, the awkward entrance. Pretty much every game has some version of this; a lot of wolves struggle to hit the ground with that kind of effortless casual v energy and many of them have that "rough approximation of it, but feels a little off" note.

nothing better than a villa rand on a new site.

<3 's to everyone i know, nice to meet you to everyone i don't.

lettuce werewolf

basically feels like someone struggling to think of a good memey / casual V opener and just going for three of them that are unrelated.

Second, this post:

Well formatting just lost all my multi quotes for my Jan iso RIP.

Just imagine a bunch of amazing supporting quotes thanks.




Just reread Jan’s iso

First 10 posts or so are just shitposting with the flavor of the game (for most would be NAI, but Jan is >rand village when he is shitposting IME)

But important caveat is there are a ton of people Jan knows pretty well in the game, which makes him faking shitposting easier.

Almost completely devoid of content until 15 posts or so in, says cobalt is unlikely to be a wolf but we should tickle them later for a post I think is pretty villagery for cobalt.

Questions a villa read on Gemma by stett

And then just drops a massive read list on the thread with almost no explanation for reads.

Classic wolf formula, and his tone being decent is the only thing that really gives me doubt on my wolf read here.

(On second thought, I think there is a decent chance if he was a wolf he would have pushed me earlier instead of just leaving me in null)



Not much to villa read, can people who are villa reading Jan please explain?

This is what I'd call pretty classic IIoA - information instead of analysis. It's more a recap of Jan's thread actions / moves than it is a thought process or investigation into why Jan's doing what he's doing or what motivation might be there, or the way their posts hang together as a cohesive thread, or any of that stuff we generically call a solving mentality. It looks like work, but it's basically busywork.

okay lets go point by point

1) just talked about that

2) I disagree bop was more villagery, i think bop's game related stuff was pretty whatever, and my villa reads on both of them were purely tone/interaction based, and because the interactions were with each other, i put them in the same tier.

(i think benneh is more villagery now but thats besides the point.)

3) the timing of the read syn gave felt right in the thread, I remember agreeing with it as I read it and felt it was a villagery thought, but obviously if i have a villa read on bop by the time i'm putting pen to paper about the read, that will color how strong my read on syn is because I now think its a wolf read on a villager. Plus syn's read was literally just a one sentence read on page 2 or whatever, it would have never gotten more than light villa read anyways.

4) /shrug emoji/ oh well. I did actually end up reading them on my phone while in bed but they weren't worth another post and tbh i was falling asleep in my comp chair while writing the reads post so my brain was just too fried to process those.


I don't think any of these should be real sticking points in your mind tbh.

maybe the sheep one i guess, but me not giving a read on sheep is probably more villa indicative of me than anything else i've done, because i would absolutely have made something up there if I was a wolf because i knew people would expect me to have a read on sheep

Lastly we have this post to ladd defending himself from ladd's shade. This one is a pretty specific wolf archetype, a real Voxx special, called "yes I'm a wolf but your reasons are bad, now watch me defend myself and nothing else."

Defending oneself in a mafia game very often comes with a flavor of frustration, but it's a very, very unique flavor when it's a wolf and it has that subtle spice of knowing someone is right, but for the wrong reasons. I'm getting a small hint of that here but YMMV.

I'd call this about a 65% wolfread; better than a coinflip but not *much* better. Good enough to be my vote right now but I could certainly be convinced to go elsewhere by a good case.

Hint, hint.

[Maple]

sure

vote:sheepsaysmeep


i am still most interested on knights/sheep alignment of all the players itg

I am busy until like -2/3 hours from eod so i'll see u then barring some pop ins

Yeah, I've been thinking about newcomb's question or prompt or whatever. And saying sheep is the simplest and most straight answer.

Which makes it annoying that you said so first, frankly.

I was considering spinning it around and instead talking about who I think might be villager, too.

[Wisdom]

Why am I awake

I dreamt that my IRL friends started playing a forum mafia game without me and I was so proud and hype

Waking up too early was doubly disappointing

[sheepsaysmeep]

can you explain why you have ender so high?




could you elaborate on what gut pings?

also my post on knights came after your push so i could have had nefarious intentions if you now think knights is a villager

i think the struggling with format stuff is pretty squarely NAI, he coudl struggle with the format and still be a wolf

idk this turn around for these reasons given how much you hated his early posts seems a bit weird to me


i'll try anyway

lol

I will address the bolded section quickly:

"also my post on knights came after your push so i could have had nefarious intentions if you now think knights is a villager" - I think it's more notable that you listed 4 things that pinged u from neee and I was like wow, this list actually really closely resembles things that were pinging me from neee. that is more notable than "you're pushing him at this certain time and he might be a villa."

that is the entire sole thing singlehandedly putting u above null prob. also that u prob read my really long post in response to Newcomb and then the next morning the entire game immediately handwaved it and moved on might actually be like +1 town point lol.

"i think the struggling with format stuff is pretty squarely NAI, he coudl struggle with the format and still be a wolf" - I guess like, this might be a read less suited for competent players, but my take is just that groaning about it out loud seems villagery (risking seeming overly self-defensive) compared to wolf instinct to like put your head down and prove yourself town other ways

"idk this turn around for these reasons given how much you hated his early posts seems a bit weird to me" - honestly like 18 people have described my dislike of neee as quite strong and I dont know what to make of it. it's weird. I would consider my feelings on neee like gut pings at best, barely even a scumread at its peak.

I might try to address the other things but honestly probably not