Tarot Mafia

[Maple]

I've decided I'm ride or die with bop. If he ends up being a wolf, I'm going to pretend this was a joke in post

[Jan]

I think there are two worlds and I doubtpeople will follow me.

We may be somewhat right and this is an easy game but my gut yells at me that we are not.

Or Sunbae is a wolf. (possibly with ladd, but maybe ladd is willing to tell the class about his sunbae read).

[grr]

yeeeeah i'd take this one back to the drawing board my friend

especially that second bolded should get a laugh from anyone who actually has seen my wolf game

I feel like you're using some offbrand meta and leaning on it awful hard for someone who at least to my recollection I've never played with

I actually find the angle kinda villagery in an offbeat way - like this really really doesn't feel like someone who has a team and my name has come up in wolfchat

I aim to please. (I called it a forced read for a reason because no one is explaining their vreads on you very well so I was trying to find reasons they might actually think you are a villager, because the reasons being presented to me looked like nothing to me lol. It's not actually my read.)

[Jan]

enderwiggin: have very little experience with him but I think he got sussed for bad reasons. kinda for being overexplanatory or something but to me it felt like his comments were just, genuinely trying to provide some context. which doesnt make it town but also not wolf. they are also doing it so consistently i think its probs just the way they talk. ISO feels okay. yeah I mean I dont really know how else to put this ig i just don't see why they'd be wolfread so probably a villager based on seeming =rand. also seems unfazed in general.

so like.

knights = struggling villager >> enderwiggin seems fine many words > gemma (seems fine but less words so a bit less confidence than ender (lol))

gut feeling is all villas wagoned and wouldnt be surprised if the wolves are in the people no one is gonna yeet d1 anyway (maybe sunbae idk) so nya.

I had similar thoughts while going for a walk/shopping.

My heart is not into ender or knights wagons at all.
And gemma is shrug coinflip material right now.

None of it feels good.

I would hate to be wrong on sunbae, but it is where my head went several times in the last hour.

[Newcomb]

I think Dya is a pretty obvious villager for reasons of "I read their posts and idk, seems like an obvious villager???" and like, yeah I understand people disagree or w/e and I don't blame them because it's the type of read I can't ever articulate and whenever I try to people just act like I'm making no sense but it seems obvious to me. You asked me for specific posts and I don't have them but just like, go read their posts and ask if they are solving the game or not. And if the things they choose to talk about are based on positioning/looking good/faking reads or based on whatever comes to their mind in the moment.

I can definitely empathize with trying to explain something that seems so self-evident that it needs no explanation. I guess my retort would be... the things you're pointing out seem like fairly generic village things that could apply to basically everyone in the game. Like I'm sure I could pull up a post or two from everyone and say "this is them trying to solve the game" and not be totally laughed out of the room. So I guess why do you believe dya's posts like that vs, say, arctic's or wisdom's?

I'll also say that 'obvious' is a pretty weighted word for me. Despite the conviction with which I sometimes push things, very, very rarely would I call someone's alignment obvious. I think the last time I actually considered someone's alignment self-evident without mechanical proof was like 5 years ago in Mountainous Arson where Cem flipped red and hardcore spewed lissa red because Cem doing literally nothing at EoD instead of showing up and messing around would have literally won them the game if lissa'd been a villager.

[Maple]

the more interesting world is sheep/knights v/v and ladd is giga pocketing me btw

just putting it out there that that's a thought that's been rolling around back there.

ladd's said a truly remarkable number of things i've agreed with this game, including stuff that can't possibly have anything to do with alignment like the d1 vote stickiness thing, which I almost made a post about because i've noticed literally the exact same thing in my game as a kind of unconscious evolution of how people started reacting to me.

I don't say this to have any meaningful moving the needle on anything in the game right now or potentially ever, just to like, give myself a little potential postgame face-saving

My hottest take is that ladd thanking this post is wolfy

[Jan]

I aim to please. (I called it a forced read for a reason because no one is explaining their vreads on you very well so I was trying to find reasons they might actually think you are a villager, because the reasons being presented to me looked like nothing to me lol. It's not actually my read.)

I have enjoyed Newcomb starting with his 2nd coming (the first one was kind of mid tbh).

The important part is that I have no respect for his wolfgame and I expect him to struggle as wolf.
Just not really an avenue Newcomb is interested in.
He loves solving, the puzzle and reading other people. Deception is not his game.
At least not back when we played games on dlp.

He won't just roll over and die as wolf, but I am somewhat confident that I can sniff him out and so far he has not pinged me.
That is all.

[Maple]

I aim to please. (I called it a forced read for a reason because no one is explaining their vreads on you very well so I was trying to find reasons they might actually think you are a villager, because the reasons being presented to me looked like nothing to me lol. It's not actually my read.)

My current read on newcomb is almost entirely based on his handling of my slot and so probably isn't worth discussing today.

[Newcomb]

I had similar thoughts while going for a walk/shopping.

My heart is not into ender or knights wagons at all.
And gemma is shrug coinflip material right now.

None of it feels good.

I would hate to be wrong on sunbae, but it is where my head went several times in the last hour.

i'll admit I vibe with that.

I mean if it is ladd/sunbae like REALLY??? come the fuck on that's some bad rng lol

I will say my heart is not really in the knights thing either; it was mostly that he racked up enough generic wolf tell type things that it was like, well, smoke, fire? But it's not a very personal bespoke push that I can get excited about

[ColonelLubriderm]

I've decided I'm ride or die with bop. If he ends up being a wolf, I'm going to pretend this was a joke in post

together we'll usher in a new era and drain the wolves and make werewolf great again

[Jan]

Dya to me is a villager on the same level that ender is. (not that anybody asked)

Both of them have not said anything I dislike and judging them on content alone they are both just fine, but not outside of possible wolf range.

It is a weak read, but sometimes you want to make food and all you have is leftovers.

[Maple]

Draining wolves? Didn't realize this was that kind of website

[Jan]

together we'll usher in a new era and drain the wolves and make werewolf great again

J.D Maple at your service.
Get a sofa and you are set for life.

[Maple]

Reaaaaaally hope you're village, Jan.

[ColonelLubriderm]

@Sunbae

why do you think rasko and jan are wolves? assuming you still feel that way

[Jan]

Reaaaaaally hope you're village, Jan.

[ColonelLubriderm]

@Newcomb why you think ladd is a villa again?

[insomnia]

i think ladd can easily be wolf

dunno about sunbae. i guess?

[grr]

so as i changed to vote sunbae i figured i should also ISO him seperately

ok so honestly main reason i just voted him is cuz he was like, sussing 2 of the wagons that are popular now and that i do not read as wolfy. other than that his iso is vibing and base level of reaching out to people/cooperating.

didnt like that he was processing the discussion between maple and me but only made a read on maple. flimsy but fine keeping my vote there to at the very least generate a discussion (my wolfreads are all flimsy because they arent actually wolfreads but just like vague feelings of being potentially a hit).

[Jan]

i think ladd can easily be wolf

dunno about sunbae. i guess?

why ladd more so than sunbae?

[grr]

I have enjoyed Newcomb starting with his 2nd coming (the first one was kind of mid tbh).

The important part is that I have no respect for his wolfgame and I expect him to struggle as wolf.
Just not really an avenue Newcomb is interested in.
He loves solving, the puzzle and reading other people. Deception is not his game.
At least not back when we played games on dlp.

He won't just roll over and die as wolf, but I am somewhat confident that I can sniff him out and so far he has not pinged me.
That is all.

fair enuff (ig one of my issues was that the "love solving, puzzles and reading other people" is something that didn't click with me yet from reading his posts which is why i voted him first in the first place, i mean i assume it's gonna at some point if he's a villa so no biggies...)

[Sunbae]

I won't be around at all after these next few posts and vote. If you think I'm the best vote uh, good luck? Think that's hard to be the case on multiple fronts but I cannot stop you!

Still feel pretty ok with where I've been at. Think I've got a prettttty good swath of the game with reads. Doubt they are all accurate but I'm comfy with the reads and how I got there.

Keep circling back to Rask as my best wolf. Something about calling my reads too consensus while they are getting poo poo'd elsewhere for being too out there just makes me think it was shading and finding a reason to do so that sounds reasonable but hadn't actually been reading my posts or thinking about my reads. I don't think anyone else would call the reads consensus!

Still don't find Jan villagery. Don't see why others do and the only thing I get told when asked is "vibes" which, fair it's day 1, but I counter with "I get vibes that say opposite".

[Sunbae]

Yeah newcomb, I don't call people obvious villagers that often but sometimes I just see it and I'm gonna say it (lan in anni was that way too)

[Newcomb]

@Newcomb why you think ladd is a villa again?

Mostly just like, the timing of his statements about me? And the general mindmeld-ness we've had this game; he's said a ton of things that I've thought myself around those same posts.

Specifically he called me a villager just after I started getting into the game and pinged Cobalt for something idk what it was but it was the first time I actually posted something where I felt like I was caring about the game and people's alignments, and then I dipped and gave a general impression of the thread as being mostly villagers based off threadflow and vibes. I liked that ladd went with that as a latching on point. Just felt like idk we were experiencing the same game.

Obviously i've considered several times that i'm just wanting / pocketed.

Don't think I can seriously entertain that D1 just based on how gutted I'd feel seeing that v flip. Like I'd need a true smoking gun.

[Sunbae]

I can definitely empathize with trying to explain something that seems so self-evident that it needs no explanation. I guess my retort would be... the things you're pointing out seem like fairly generic village things that could apply to basically everyone in the game. Like I'm sure I could pull up a post or two from everyone and say "this is them trying to solve the game" and not be totally laughed out of the room. So I guess why do you believe dya's posts like that vs, say, arctic's or wisdom's?

I'll also say that 'obvious' is a pretty weighted word for me. Despite the conviction with which I sometimes push things, very, very rarely would I call someone's alignment obvious. I think the last time I actually considered someone's alignment self-evident without mechanical proof was like 5 years ago in Mountainous Arson where Cem flipped red and hardcore spewed lissa red because Cem doing literally nothing at EoD instead of showing up and messing around would have literally won them the game if lissa'd been a villager.

So like, ok. Let me try to articulate something here:

During this little back and forth I keep getting this ... feeling ... that you're not entirely giving the benefit of the doubt here and trying to see things from my POV and use that to help shape your reads too. I was hoping for a bit of a meld here where I give some thoughts, you not necessarily agree entirely with them but see little things in there that make you think of some other things, and springboard off of that to get some good observational reads back at me. Instead what I've got the feeling of is that you're just kind of responding to me. Like I'm saying "here is my perspective on this player and I'm trying to explain it so you can see it too and give me your input" but you're mostly just saying "meh, idk I mean I see it but I also don't". I want to break them down a bit further:

In this one, at no point did you actually say "hmm, that's interesting. Let me go back and read Dya and see if I see what you're saying". It's just semantics about the word obvious and a bit of a dismissal about the concept as a whole because everyone can seem solvey. Which, FAIR! Everyone can seem solvey but I refuse to let that make me go "wellll good woofs can seem solvey so im not gonna give villa points for people doing that". I'm just gonna call solvey people villagers and if a wolf wants to try to keep up with it all game and fool me then good luck its a long game. And if one fools me for a bit thats fine if its because of that!

It's the same with the Benneh/Neb one! I mean I don't think I'm a goat tier Benneh reader but I do have a lot of experience with Benneh and I think my view on that is worth at least exploring a bit too but it was once again a bit of a macro conceptual retort of "those kinds of forward-thinking wolf moves are extremely difficult to correctly sus out on D1 with no information. They're usually a little more obvious in retrospect with some flips." but you didn't go back and even consider looking at Bennehs posts through those lenses and see if it made anything stand out to you.

And like, even with the Manti one which I think was very helpful for me to start chewing on, it was again a Macro general manti thing and not anything specific about the posts themselves you know?

And like, don't get me wrong I don't think it was anything like "omg i need to reevaluate my whole world view with this new info" but it WAS a very direct attempt to meld with you that I think could have brought at least something new to the table (which would chain react into me finding something new and pew pew pew kinda having us go off) and I don't really feel you had much interest in doing so past just responding to direct posts with macro conceptual responses that sure, make sense, but wasn't reallllly what I was hoping for you know?

And I'm not trying to pout or anything but I find it concerning because this is the type of thing I was expecting to really click with both of us and I feel like it's at least slightly more likely that your respond like this as a wolf than a villager?

[Sunbae]

Now I also recognize that maybe hey, WASHED and not worth going and looking back etc

Totally possible!

[Sunbae]

@Sunbae

why do you think rasko and jan are wolves? assuming you still feel that way

I normally read Rask's posts and just vibe with them and here I don't. Then for actual content purposes I've mentioned the shading me for consensus reads doesn't really make much sense to me.

[Sunbae]

I'm chewing on Jan voting me and wondering if it's more likely to come from villa jan so I'll get back to you on that (on day 2 probs)

[ladd]

I won't be around at all after these next few posts and vote. If you think I'm the best vote uh, good luck? Think that's hard to be the case on multiple fronts but I cannot stop you!

Still feel pretty ok with where I've been at. Think I've got a prettttty good swath of the game with reads. Doubt they are all accurate but I'm comfy with the reads and how I got there.

Keep circling back to Rask as my best wolf. Something about calling my reads too consensus while they are getting poo poo'd elsewhere for being too out there just makes me think it was shading and finding a reason to do so that sounds reasonable but hadn't actually been reading my posts or thinking about my reads. I don't think anyone else would call the reads consensus!

Still don't find Jan villagery. Don't see why others do and the only thing I get told when asked is "vibes" which, fair it's day 1, but I counter with "I get vibes that say opposite".

Can you elaborate on why u think jan is a wolf?

Idk if you already said so, sorry i could have missed it

[grr]

Ok so on a skim that Raskol sus is the one I could actually see being true, Sunbar. I had a very dumb feeling about them that I chose not to disclose at the time becuz its such a shitty take but

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

it was they were treating me in the maple discussion with good faith so they are probably a wolf

I think in general their ISO is lacking more care tonally compared to... well all of knights/wiggins/gemma really. I found his comment "gl u reading me" somewhat towny in the moment but probably not enough for an entire d1.