Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[nebjiamn]

also sunbae wanted yall dead and then he died n1 and i think you tmi'd that he actually was the wolf kill and not a redirect/bg/whatevs

gg sunbae goat

[annika]

my brain is too smol for this game
@Arctic I still don’t think it’s Ben because his reaction to thinking he found a slip was like ridiculously villagery excitement imo. also you really misread your own role? im gonna cry agshrhfhhf

[pzelda]

I can't help myself I like Arctic based on their recent posts. If they really are mafia, this is a bold offensive (tbh @Arctic I used phrases such as "if they flip wolf" in my post claim comments). Before the claim my feeling was that
Also, why would Arctic claim there as a wolf? It would be risky as there could be a cc. The only option would be they were a wolf redirector and I can't see why would anyone put that role in.
Ofc that leads to me thinking about Benneh. Mostly, because I think he should be one of these players pointing out that slips don't exist. At least I believe so.
I'm not jumping to conclusions just ruminating my options for the rest of D2.

[Visor]

I don't care about the claim stuff

Your reason is perfectly plausible

Taffy will probably want to kill you tonight anyway to prove she is real

I just don't see a point in wasting words on it

[Visor]

also sunbae wanted yall dead and then he died n1 and i think you tmi'd that he actually was the wolf kill and not a redirect/bg/whatevs

gg sunbae goat

Sunbaes wanted dya dead

[pzelda]

my brain is too smol for this game
@Arctic I still don’t think it’s Ben because his reaction to thinking he found a slip was like ridiculously villagery excitement imo. also you really misread your own role? im gonna cry agshrhfhhf

I feel the same way. Just trying on different tin foil hats rn

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 996

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
5	Arctic	EnderWiggin (21), Lissa (26), nebjiamn (46), pzelda (24), waza (33)
1	dyachei	Visor (17)
1	nebjiamn	Arctic (35)
6	Not Voting	Maple (23), Totally not Taffy (9), annika (17), didistetter (36), dyachei (8), ladd (22)

[nebjiamn]

Sunbaes wanted dya dead

dya was part of the 'yall' there

[annika]

I LITERALLY HAD TO STOP EATING DINNER CAUSE I REMEMBERED THIS????

IS THIS NOT OUTING? HE HAD NO IDEA OF THE IMPLCATIONS OF SUNBAE'S ROLE AND HOW IT WORKS BUT NOW HES CLAIMING THE EVEN NIGHT COUNTERPATR????????

if this is a wolf im snowed af

he literally stopped eating dinner bc he had an epiphany like omg it’s sooo townie

[Visor]

if this is a wolf im snowed af

he literally stopped eating dinner bc he had an epiphany like omg it’s sooo townie

Ew david

[annika]

Oh just remembered if Arctic does flip red then visors track actually becomes useful lol

Assuming there’s no ninja in the setup, in which case I’d like the track to be used on me if Arctic is red, my eod d1 really is policy worthy snd even if I can manage to outlive dya or ladd who are probs the only two other people that may get voted before me I don’t really think dya is a wolf and on top of the stuff I already said about ladd I don’t think the way him and Arctic spoke to each other today felt w/w. I’m not ride or die with any of these reads because tbh it’s hard to think who else could be a wolf aside for maple but yeah I really would appreciate if the tracker was used on me tonight (as long as ur not paranoid im a ninja or something )

yeah, this is a good argument for why we should vote Arctic today (if we think he's w, which. I think I do atp because idk if I've ever seen Arctic hold a claim for that long at EoD)

the track can actually get a clear so long as there's no roleblocker...although I'm kind of scared there's a roleblocker lmao because even if Arctic is fake, an inventor/bodyguard/bomber makes me think wolves have some kind of counterplay besides just the bomb defuser

but if they roleblock Visor then Manti can get another invention out OR Taffy can get another bomb off, so I think it works out?

[Arctic]

I was thinking about this and having two half lightning rods and a bomber makes more sense than one half redirector, one bomber and an inventor with a possibility to clear more players. Or does it not?

I mean yeah

Like redirecting to self is a pretty weak role by itself, if you're limiting the parity to every other night then it makes sense that there is a counterpart with the other parity

Obviously I am saynig this while knowing full well it's true but only 3 PRs (2 if taffy is fake) seems unrealistic when one of them is as weak as an odd night redirectors

[waza]

waza, i thikn i'm starting to see a pattern with you and I think you value people calling townreads a way of townsiding. i won't say you value it too highly, its more just me realizing what you value

but IMHO, those kinds of takes are silly for a wolf because ladd has to have townreads on people?

lets go through who you mentioned:

1) he townread me. he gets 0 credit for this, he would even tell you, he has never pushed me incorrectly or failed to clear me correctly. i have fooled him a few times, but the only times he's ever really been sus of me were when I was wolfing. i legitimately entered this game knowing near 100% certainty ladd would townread me regardless of his own alignment. in fact, i know he knows this meta so well, I was actually pre-emptively wondering if this would be the game he cashes in on the meta to try to sus me a bit (if he's wolf) and that's the only reason i wouldnt say is was absolutely 100% certain instead of near 100%

also i was never vulnerable day 1 lol.

tl;dr ladd sorta has to TR me until the one day he cashes in on the meta and we'll have to see if i'm keen on that or not, i was never in danger, he shouldn't really get towncred for 'townsiding' by tring me

re: sunbae -- i think you have a valid point, sunbae def was vulnerable

re: you (waza) -- i don't really know how vulnerable you were? you had lots of defenders besides ladd, similar to the way i did. neither you or i was ever a serious wagon during the day.

if i add these 3 reads up i don't think he was 'townsiding to his own detriment' in the worlds he is a wolf? he was pushing taffy all game while this happened?

i just sorta disagree with your assessment that because ladd is on a 'timer' that he wouldn't then push for taffy to die because then it puts the spotlight on him. that is literally his MO quite often BECAUSE he's on a timer.

i don't really think you can say he's played against his wincon if he's wolf. i think killing taffy d1 and getting 2 PR claims out of day 1 would have been excellent for w!ladd but we got lucky a wolf died d1 instead.

i still feel like a lot of his reads were non-collaborative in ways that feel mor elike his wolf self than not. i'm not deadset on him being wolf--i do think if he's town he's played a pretty good game for identifying lots of towns correctly, but i don't think its absurd to have him in the middle of the POE given the current game state and where his wolf reads landed

yeah i get that, thats why in the fourth paragraph i said his trs on me and u are nai and he woulda done it regardless of alignment

it was mostly his sunbae tr, ladd tends to go for the path of least resistance as wolf and yeah he doesnt really townside because it doesnt really prolong his stay much. thinking back to a mash for example where he accidentally bussed and then got pushed d2 for being alive anyways, it sucks but yeah people are just gonna hound him if hes alive for too long, or not as correct as they want him to be etc. etc. so yeah i dont really see him stick himself out on a limb to defend villas that are poe'd when he can just let the push on sunbae happen. again i need to fact check if this played out how i remembered but yeah

its funny cos the first part of ur post reminded me of what i was speaking to about arctic here

I use what’s given to me lol

Funnily enough someone made this exact post you did not long ago except replace how people are reading me with meta instead, and then another game replace that but with w/w and pairing interactions. D1s are scarce for info so I work with what I got, most people didn’t post much so what I’m left to use is how people are handling me and vibe reads mixed with meta

The longer the game goes the more diverse my reads get usually

but yeah ben i can see why u think that lol, ig townreads matter to me in the specific context of ladd and this game but yeah lol this post was pretty useless all in all and i hope nobody read this hoping for some insight on someones alignment lol or mine for that matter. i forgot to reply to this earlier but it reminded me of arctics post lol so i went back to it

just so this isnt a completely useless post errr

vote:maple

havent read arctics walls ill read it when i come back, just voting maple cos i forgot about him and wouldnt mind some disscussion there again

[waza]

i suppose if im thinking about something i tend to hyperfocus on it or bring it up alot

idk lol i always wondered/was confused why people would try to find patterns in my solving but then the claimed pattern would be something different every time someone noticed a pattern lol. but its starting to make sense to me now i think

[Arctic]

sorry arctic, i can believe you could mess up the claim but the combination of you firmly playing like not-a-PR yesterday and trying to push-out-a-PR instead and also your solve just kind of sucking (fmpov) makes me want to just unabashedly kill you. i'm obviously town -- and even though i'm pushing you, i legitimately think you would be able to find me here and not just brush things off as 'acting.' its as if you have condensed all of my posting, all of which is supremely villagery (as evidenced by the abundance of players correctly townclearing me), and distilled it into the most uncharitable takes so you can justify pushing me.

i also think lissa's posting last night, while drunk, reads incredibly pure and uninformed, so beyond just having a bad read on me, i think your suggestion that lissa is the yin to my yang is also likely wrong and I just think you'd be able to find at least one of us, but you've instead sunk your teeth into ladd as your sure town from all of this. c'est la vie. imo, ladd seems like one of hte people from your position you should be most sus of tbh

your responses to my suggesting we discuss the optimality of using town-KP on a non-claimed PR in yourself, because you were sorta in my townreads at SOD, just reads like you thought you had a gotcha moment on me when the reality is i had you in the tier of townleans that i did not feel super comfortable about and this was especially true as my starting POE for the day whittled down (sunbae died, my waza epiphany, and taffy re-asserting their claim). i think it is more likely you were amazed you had been targetted with a douse and the realities of you just shrug dying when you were in a pretty monstrous spot otherwise left you spiraling and needing to come up with something you hadn't thought through.

if you're town PR, you saw me write that and got all big in your britches because you're PR who firmly asserted they were always VT and would never play eod1 the way you did as VT and then comically misunderstood your role on day 2 when the realities came crashing down. i just don't believe this is likely even if i think it is possible, especially when i pair it with how you've solved the game from your distinct point of view. i wouldn't and won't flame you if you are town but i would probably ask you in future games to not get so caught up in thinking incorrect reads against you are a bigger sin BECAUSE you're a PR. that's how you read to me right now fwiw, so I kinda just hope you're wolf who's flailing and omgussing instead.

i will give you this: in the world you are town, i think your next most likely hit from your current solve is maple, who you've placed me in a difference check with. this is where possible redemption is for you if town, but i am not killing maple here today anymore because atp we are just testing a 50/50 and we at least have decent confirmation of their role being real in comparison to yours, even if its existence doesn't necessarily confirm its alignment.

if others feel strongly about your reaction my suggestion would be to kill dya instead because I think they have the most equity as a partner for you in addition to just sort of similarly slipping into a poe in the worlds you are town along with the other PR claims are town and then do the spiel ladd is talking about re: mech

How is Lissa's posting last night uninformed unless you think I'm town, which you clearly don't? You will spin this as another "fake gotcha" probably but I legitimately don't think you can feel Lissa's posts are uninformed unless you know that I'm town which isn't a view that you appear to be repping

I read all of her posts today when I made the post in which I voted you. Before you made your post about my claim being fake, Lissa had done basically no wolfhunting and very little that can be construed as solving in general today. I think this is a very strong lobby in which people who have randed wolf are capable of making decent sounding posts, so I am more interested in who is pushing the game where. I am considering Lissa's mindset and direction and I do not see someone who is interested in advancing the town wincondition. In isolation I wouldn't necessarily call the lack of wolf hunting condemning in the context of this day since everyone is playing sluggish and solving around the PRs instead of any real substance based solving. But most people are happy with the Maple elim (pre-claim) so this is somewhat more understandable for those who are. The issue is that Maple is the default elimination today (pre-claim) and Lissa was townreading her but hasn't really done anything to meaningfully push any alternative - I don't really count her push on Ladd given it felt more like shrug/shade, and even if I do, outside of that it was not really obvious who she thinks can be a wolf, which gives me the impression she is not looking to find them.

I do not think it is a coincidence that her most significant solving efforts in this game were precipitated by your push on me. It seems intentional, either to poison the thread or to appear as though she does not have TMI

I do not think wolves are playing today (or well, this cycle) to lose another wolf. Ladd argued that I should not be ignited when I was still unclaimed. This is narrowing the POE on himself for no reason. It is very easy to do as you and some others did which is to just argue that oh well it's town kp, we should use it. And Ladd does not think that my mistake is actually outting and is willing to consider another vote today, even if it gets himself killed. On top of that he has just been generally villagery on posting today which I have already outlined. Why should I be the most suspicious of him?

I should clarify that I do not think me being a PR makes the wolfreads against me worse. I would be as suspicious of you either way for advocating to ignite me even if I was vanilla - it still takes the ML way and such. It is true that the second point of now advocating to not ignite me wouldn't really matter. But that is not clouded by my own judgement, it is an objective fact that if my role is real wolves will not want me to be able to use it tonight. That doesn't mean you have to be a wolf, but that your current stance is aligning with the wolf agenda at this moment in time.

I am not interested in going dya for the reasons I have already outlined. I would invite you to reconsider your townread on Lissa if you are town

[pzelda]

So, let's get back to it.
First, let's talk about claims a little bit further. Taffy's almost always real. I think they got rather towny before eod too and their claim just makes sense. Now, would it make sense for them to soft if they were mafia? Mayhaps. Would a setting with two redirectors and an inventor be balanced with a mafia bomber? It sounds quite balanced to me, but mafia wouldn't need a defuser. So, they're town 9 times out of ten with a slight possibility of being a lost wolf or a 3p.
Now let's talk about the inventor. I think I would like to know details on what can the role invent outside of 1x track. Town inventor is possibly swingy tbh. Mafia inventor possibly too. It can be quite powerful if used well as it has a chance to clear others. So far it works as an investigative role. The setup with two half redirectors and a bomber against a diffuser and a inventor sounds pro-towm tbh.
Now, I think the worst thing about Arctic's claim isn't a balancing issue. But the way they hinted at being vanilla and that they actually claimed it. And if the claim is real an even night redirector would make some sense as a mafia role. For example redirecting the track or the inventor's gift. So, it's the weakest claim even without that slip.
Like Arctic is the only claim I'm willing to vote.
When I'm back I will check their actual posts.

[Arctic]

yeah, this is a good argument for why we should vote Arctic today (if we think he's w, which. I think I do atp because idk if I've ever seen Arctic hold a claim for that long at EoD)

the track can actually get a clear so long as there's no roleblocker...although I'm kind of scared there's a roleblocker lmao because even if Arctic is fake, an inventor/bodyguard/bomber makes me think wolves have some kind of counterplay besides just the bomb defuser

but if they roleblock Visor then Manti can get another invention out OR Taffy can get another bomb off, so I think it works out?

This is a pretty bad post.

"It's a good argument to kill Arctic today, but only if Arctic is a wolf"

Well, yes. Generally that is how mafia works. There are not many situations in which you would have a wolf and not want to kill them. You aren't really saying anything useful here

"idk if I've ever seen Arctic hold a claim for that long at EoD"

...what? I have never played a game with you in which I've been a town power role or ever actually wagoned during the day. How do you know what I would do as a PR lol? If you are going off of turbos, I have held my claim as a PR on the counterwagon countless times. Which is why I would do it here if I have a strong sense that I won't actually die. And even if I did, my role isn't really that strong and couldn't act for another phase so it was whatever. I didn't want to claim and lose out on the opportunity to get utility before night 2. I did claim after I was doused because me being ignited despite being confirmable (and us losing a ML for it) is not optimal. What makes this post even worse is that the information you are using for this read was available as soon as I had claimed PR, and you didn't suspect me for holding the claim at EOD then. You are only bringing it now that there is a case against me based on how I handled my claim, but you are pretending that you have some other reason for voting me when all of this reads as nonsensical

If you are town I implore you to not sleepwalk into the likely outcome of today and engage with some other suspicions. But I am genuinely considering worlds where you aren't because of this post lmao

[annika]

If you are going off of turbos, I have held my claim as a PR on the counterwagon countless times. Which is why I would do it here if I have a strong sense that I won't actually die.

no? not that i rememver, at least not when youre literally top wagon 1 minute before the day ends

this post is bad because youre assuming I should have you town here when you claimed vt and misread your own role and made posts like “if I die I want to be voting Taffy” insteas of Claiming your Role

which is either bad because youre a wolf or bad because youre town and just ridiculously unaware of how bad you look

not to mention you explicitly didvnt vote rask when I asked to consolidate on him or maple

your only saving grace is that you ended on 49 instead of 50, so maybe the last post was reserved to claim, but that’s only a saving grace bc im being VERY generous with you lmao

but yeah I still think youre mafia

[Maple]

I was writing out how I thought annika could still be a wolf with arctic because she was pushing me during eod then I realized that didn't make sense gg

[Maple]

Meow meow people on this page acting like alien shapeshifters

[Maple]

So, let's get back to it.
First, let's talk about claims a little bit further. Taffy's almost always real. I think they got rather towny before eod too and their claim just makes sense. Now, would it make sense for them to soft if they were mafia? Mayhaps. Would a setting with two redirectors and an inventor be balanced with a mafia bomber? It sounds quite balanced to me, but mafia wouldn't need a defuser. So, they're town 9 times out of ten with a slight possibility of being a lost wolf or a 3p.
Now let's talk about the inventor. I think I would like to know details on what can the role invent outside of 1x track. Town inventor is possibly swingy tbh. Mafia inventor possibly too. It can be quite powerful if used well as it has a chance to clear others. So far it works as an investigative role. The setup with two half redirectors and a bomber against a diffuser and a inventor sounds pro-towm tbh.
Now, I think the worst thing about Arctic's claim isn't a balancing issue. But the way they hinted at being vanilla and that they actually claimed it. And if the claim is real an even night redirector would make some sense as a mafia role. For example redirecting the track or the inventor's gift. So, it's the weakest claim even without that slip.
Like Arctic is the only claim I'm willing to vote.
When I'm back I will check their actual posts.

ALIEN SHAPESHIFTER

[Maple]

my reason for thinking taffy was lying is because i heard nothing about anticlaim both when i got my role and afterwards

i'd appreciate if the entire lobby didn't spend the rest of the phase preflipping me as mafia even if we have unanimously decided i am going to die for this

which is.. honestly a pretty big waste. you are killing one of the few PR claims which is actually confirmable lol. i'd even accept being ignited at this point because then i can at least use my action on visor so that he can track someone without dying

i don't understand the arguments for why my role wouldn't exist either. but a lot of people are saying poison rn and it's not only wolves. so y'all are going to have to look at that for yourselves

Confirmable how?

My role is already confirmed by visor, and taff is claiming kp.

Also prob worth noting I hadn't heard about anticlaim but it seems plausible for a PR to have that info mech oracled into their brains given my very limited knowledge of gemma setups

[Totally not Taffy]

I was writing out how I thought annika could still be a wolf with arctic because she was pushing me during eod then I realized that didn't make sense gg

Tell me more about this, because if Arctic is indeed a wolf then Annika is 90% his buddy imo

Especially with her latest posts which are great insight in how his EoD1 is wolfy after telling me SoD2 how towny he is
She's not acting as embarrassed about her wrong Arctic read as I would expect her to

Vote: Arctic

bc it's mechanically optimal to deny an outed wolf another night action especially one who's trying this hard to get it

Taffy (10)

[Totally not Taffy]

Oh also @Maple

If I understand things correctly (I have only read posts since my own from this morning so far, so not caught up at all) then you're the one handing out the night chats and I would love one tonight

Taffy (11)

[annika]

Tell me more about this, because if Arctic is indeed a wolf then Annika is 90% his buddy imo

Especially with her latest posts which are great insight in how his EoD1 is wolfy after telling me SoD2 how towny he is
She's not acting as embarrassed about her wrong Arctic read as I would expect her to

Vote: Arctic

bc it's mechanically optimal to deny an outed wolf another night action especially one who's trying this hard to get it

Taffy (10)

I don’t know Arctic’s alignment yet, I’m just leaning him wolf rn. I don’t really see a reason to be embarrassed bc I dont think ive done anything wrong yet..? hehe

I defended the two PR wagons and killed a wolf, I mightve also defended another wolf D1 but I re-evaled today :D and if he’s not then uhm. well then I might have a reason to be embarrassed cus *then* I’d be wrong on him lol

:3

[Totally not Taffy]

RIP Sunbae.

I still disagree that Arctic's EOD was specifically towny of em.

But there's enough people who seem to think that was clearing that it can't be just a wolf sentiment echo chamber and I have to consider strongly that I'm just five miles underneath the ground in my tunnel. So I'm gonna ignore Arctic for a bit and come back to it.

I also want to see what Taffy has to say.

I thought Maple had a terrible EOD. (This is definitely a unique viewpoint I see)

I think Benneh/Annika/Stett/Waza are all very towny from that EOD.

Need to get back to work will think more on this later.

@EnderWiggin talk to me about Maple's EoD bc Stett tried to tell me it was bad and I don't see it

Taffy (12)

[Arctic]

no? not that i rememver, at least not when youre literally top wagon 1 minute before the day ends

this post is bad because youre assuming I should have you town here when you claimed vt and misread your own role and made posts like “if I die I want to be voting Taffy” insteas of Claiming your Role

which is either bad because youre a wolf or bad because youre town and just ridiculously unaware of how bad you look

not to mention you explicitly didvnt vote rask when I asked to consolidate on him or maple

your only saving grace is that you ended on 49 instead of 50, so maybe the last post was reserved to claim, but that’s only a saving grace bc im being VERY generous with you lmao

but yeah I still think youre mafia

i'm not assuming you should have me as town, i am well aware of my position

i am saying that you shouldn't be wolfreading me for this reasoning specifically which sounds made up

i stayed on taffy because the anticlaim suggestion sounded explicitly made up given the information i had, rask was just rand or maybe slightly worse because of the threadstate

i did save my last post to claim if i got cfd'ed but i didn't expect to be

anyway i have stated my suspicions, it does not appear that anyone is willing to engage me with them or give me any chance of surviving so i will likely stop posting. i can make a legacy if that would be useful but i think my reads will be discredited because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" so i'm not sure how much people would care

if there's something else that would be useful then let me know, otherwise i will postcap myself so i no longer feel an obligation to stay here

[Arctic]

I was writing out how I thought annika could still be a wolf with arctic because she was pushing me during eod then I realized that didn't make sense gg

what is your actual opinion on my alignment

Confirmable how?

My role is already confirmed by visor, and taff is claiming kp.

Also prob worth noting I hadn't heard about anticlaim but it seems plausible for a PR to have that info mech oracled into their brains given my very limited knowledge of gemma setups

not really confirmable i mean self-resolving

your role is confirmable but it doesn't confirm that you are town, just that it exists. i should die at night eventually with my role

[ladd]

i did save my last post to claim if i got cfd'ed but i didn't expect to be

I was re reading eod and afaict you were top wagon until :00 when rask got sniped and ender moved off you. Did you intend to claim or were u caught by surprise or wat? Feel like claiming and getting a 1-for- with taffy who u were convknced was a wolf would have been a good trafe off


Anyway ill do a re read of the game in 2-3 hours

[Visor]

i'm not assuming you should have me as town, i am well aware of my position

i am saying that you shouldn't be wolfreading me for this reasoning specifically which sounds made up

i stayed on taffy because the anticlaim suggestion sounded explicitly made up given the information i had, rask was just rand or maybe slightly worse because of the threadstate

i did save my last post to claim if i got cfd'ed but i didn't expect to be

anyway i have stated my suspicions, it does not appear that anyone is willing to engage me with them or give me any chance of surviving so i will likely stop posting. i can make a legacy if that would be useful but i think my reads will be discredited because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" so i'm not sure how much people would care

if there's something else that would be useful then let me know, otherwise i will postcap myself so i no longer feel an obligation to stay here

sup

i am interested in your thoughts