Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[EnderWiggin]

Time for me to feel bad about being perfectly willing to D1 people I think are cool. =P

[EnderWiggin]

Also kinda aware I'm washing through this day in a really wishy-washy manner. IRL migraines + other things are making it difficult to find any time to have brainspace to care about the game.

Feel free to ask me questions because without questions I'm probably just going to shitpost til eod at the current rate.

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1442

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
4	Lissa	EnderWiggin (16), Visor (24), dyachei (25), ladd (28)
2	Maple	nebjiamn (48), waza (23)
1	EnderWiggin	didistetter (24)
1	ladd	Maple (30)
1	waza	pzelda (28)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (6), Totally not Taffy (14)

[waza]

your vibes were fucked dawg i dont know what to tell you

meh i do read some of maples posts and i wonder wtf they would be doing if theyre a wolf, cos w!maple knows this type of stuff isnt gonna convince anyone

and maple can wolf really well if they wanna, so i get the argument that if maple were a wolf maybe they would play this differently

but eh it doubles up for them being town too lol

like if theyre town i highly value their town game too, so i need to ask if maple is town then what are they doing because i dont get it either

namely, they bring up d1 they have found their role in mafia to be somewhat of a mediator when they rand town, trying to keep town on their tracks and preventing people from fighting (im going off memory i could be misrepping here). but then yesterday would have been a prime situation for maple to put that into action when they found arctic towny and i assume trd ben, i dont recall if they really did anything to stop town from going downhill yesterday.

and my mental model of manti is someone whose really great at mech.

some of their posts here remind me of hsr where they were kinda free and reckless in their posting, which is an argument for v!maple. but also when maple fakeclaimed my role in hsr i could completely understand the logic behind it and they were towny outside of that too, which is why i let them claim my role (iirc someone sus was bombed and i imagine manti claimed my role to try and bait them into bombinb manti if mafia had bomb, and if not it would bait the nk) manti didnt express any of this but it felt clear to me

on the converse, whenever theyre a wolf and claim something i always find their claims confusing and somwhat -ev and have usually mentioned so in those games. over here it leans more to that because i really do think if i was in mantis shoes i never would have claimed that i gave out a track, it diminishes the value of the track entirely once people know its out. and the way manti played around it almost felt like they always planned on claiming that day (ie they softed the track in their first post and claimed far away from eod). so yeah idk not a fan of they played around the track stuff

[didistetter]

i'd kinda prefer to elim ender over lissa.

Read back ender's iso and i was giving him too much credit for some casual/shitposty stuff that vibed like decent tone and confidence, and even though i don't love Lissa's reaction to arctic/encouraging of ben's sus on arctic misreading his role, and it sucks she's been so afk this phase, i still think she has some ok moments where she just kinda feels ?fine? towny? dunno.

id probs prefer ender -> lissa -> maple

Biggest issue with manti is the fact she claimed at all. It rlly could equally be a wolf role made to give towncred or a town investigative role.
If we have town/3p arso, town inventor, and odd/even redirectbodyguards i really would expect wolf kp tho so... we might be working with pretty narrow chances to get this right

[nebjiamn]

vote: ender


godspeed

[EnderWiggin]

i'd kinda prefer to elim ender over lissa.

Read back ender's iso and i was giving him too much credit for some casual/shitposty stuff that vibed like decent tone and confidence, and even though i don't love Lissa's reaction to arctic/encouraging of ben's sus on arctic misreading his role, and it sucks she's been so afk this phase, i still think she has some ok moments where she just kinda feels ?fine? towny? dunno.

id probs prefer ender -> lissa -> maple

Biggest issue with manti is the fact she claimed at all. It rlly could equally be a wolf role made to give towncred or a town investigative role.
If we have town/3p arso, town inventor, and odd/even redirectbodyguards i really would expect wolf kp tho so... we might be working with pretty narrow chances to get this right

I'm sad that you apparently rate me lower than someone who "Feels 'fine'? 'towny'?"

If you sus wolf kp what did you think about Ladd implying that I would have to be right about Lissa/Maple exactly in a POE of 3 when we theoretically have 5 days without kp?

[Lissa]

sorry it has been a rather trying couple of days, unfortunate timing

--

the most glaringly obvious and apropos variable of all--i highly doubt ANY town would be willing to have wagoned sunbae if he were in rask's position in this game at sod1. rask was 10000000000000% a shrug yeet, but i would put $10000 of my own money on the idea that people were more okay with it cause they figured he had a chance to be a rwstfo whereas with sunbae, they would be 1000000x more inclined to just say "he's clearly got something going on, i hope he's ok" and assume its NAI and give him the benefit of the doubt, so like, i don't think the hypothetical is really even possible, but if that is how it went down that's how i think it'd play out fmpov.

(also just tbc, this last paragraph is NOT shade at rask for being a rwstfo'r, i just think people are more willing to shrugyeet with that as a possibility. if it were sunbae they wouldn't even apply it as a metric, IMO)

100% lol

Why am i a wolf

ultimately i just still feel like you have been off this game at a lot of points and there is a lot of other people i think are villagers and while you've made villagery posts at points it isn't enough in comparison

Yesterday when I was looking back at the rask wagon I was asking myself who was on the wagon that maybe shouldn’t have been there. I landed on visor and then lissa. I naked voted visor first for that reason then something changed my mind (I can’t remember what) and then I voted lissa and then went back to look at that eod. That’s when I got sidetracked by arctics eod and then forgot whatever I was doing lol prior

it should be fairly obvious why i voted rask ftr

i strongly didn't think taffy should go over and i wanted to make sure that didn't happen

--

gonna look over some stuff now, ladd, visor, ender mainly are my big prios i think

[waza]

sorry it has been a rather trying couple of days, unfortunate timing

--



100% lol



ultimately i just still feel like you have been off this game at a lot of points and there is a lot of other people i think are villagers and while you've made villagery posts at points it isn't enough in comparison



it should be fairly obvious why i voted rask ftr

i strongly didn't think taffy should go over and i wanted to make sure that didn't happen

--

gonna look over some stuff now, ladd, visor, ender mainly are my big prios i think

Why were you so strongly trying to protect taffy? Why not just vote Arctic then if u wanted to save taffy?

[Lissa]

the like way ladd focused on stett early d1 and the stuff he really focused on definitely weirds me out a bit, feels really level 1 for him?

Why were you so strongly trying to protect taffy? Why not just vote Arctic then if u wanted to save taffy?

cause i just thought it was always incorrect to kill the pr claim there

i WAS VOTING ARCTIC for the whole rest of the eod???!?! but ender moved off so arctic clearly wasn't going over and it was 4:3 raskol:taffy so it seemed strictly correct fmpov to move to make extra sure the person i thought it was strictly incorrect always to kill there didn't go over?? i do not understand how you are asking me this, i moved after the arctic wagon was effectively dead, genuinely have you actually looked at what i did within the context of how the wagons moved at eod

[Lissa]

i've also... said why i thought it was super incorrect to kill taffy there like 50 times lol? and like it isn't exactly a complicated reason

[Lissa]

ladd clearing dya for the one post as hard as he did was def kinda villagery though

[Visor]

Lissa wolf

[waza]

Lissa wolf

Maybe, who’s the partner? I assume you were leaning Ben based on yesterday but imo she’s too tied to Ben to be partners lol, if she’s a wolf she’s probably trying to take Ben down with her by looking paired

[waza]

the like way ladd focused on stett early d1 and the stuff he really focused on definitely weirds me out a bit, feels really level 1 for him?



cause i just thought it was always incorrect to kill the pr claim there

i WAS VOTING ARCTIC for the whole rest of the eod???!?! but ender moved off so arctic clearly wasn't going over and it was 4:3 raskol:taffy so it seemed strictly correct fmpov to move to make extra sure the person i thought it was strictly incorrect always to kill there didn't go over?? i do not understand how you are asking me this, i moved after the arctic wagon was effectively dead, genuinely have you actually looked at what i did within the context of how the wagons moved at eod

Yeah but we killed a pr claim yesterday and he was so towny prior to it, what’s the difference there for you?

[Lissa]

man ladd's handling of dya is villagery just in general/continuingly too actually. hm

[Visor]

Maybe, who’s the partner? I assume you were leaning Ben based on yesterday but imo she’s too tied to Ben to be partners lol, if she’s a wolf she’s probably trying to take Ben down with her by looking paired

Benneh

The

[Lissa]

Yeah but we killed a pr claim yesterday and he was so towny prior to it, what’s the difference there for you?

you cannot possibly be trying to tell me that those are comparable situations at all

come the f on my dude

there is a massive difference between eliminating a pr claim on d1 without any further information, and eliminating a pr claim on d2 in a situation where there was a strong reason to think that the claim comes from a wolf (also i disagree that he was THAT towny before but it's kind of beside the point frankly) like i thought he had basically outed himself

i OBVIOUSLY do not think you just never eliminate anyone who claimed pr

why on earth are you acting like these are anywhere near the same thing

[nebjiamn]

i'm sorry i'm wasting a post on this, but i think its important so i'm going to unvote and let yall decide since i wont be able to join in on eod

Each night, target a player (you may self-target). If they are the same alignment as you, defuse any bombs strapped to them. You are told when you successfully defuse a bomb.

this wording is very specific and interesting and the feedback adds to that. what are the chances we actually have a lost wolf and we are looking at 3 wolves left?

IF THEY ARE the same alignment as you ++ you are told when you successfully defuse a bomb. why wouldn't it just say "If you target a wolf?" Why would they need to be told they successfully defused a bomb? if they are targeting a wolf they would just know that wolf is cleaned regardless of whether they were doused before or not.

This can't just be for information idt?

we are in a 15er so a 3rd party makes sense. a 4th pack wolf doesn't make sense, that's too OP, but a lost wolf potentially could, especially in a game with what seems to be limited KP?

i realize this is is overly batshit insane potentially and i might be overcooking the fuck out of something, but why can't this actually be true?

im sorry i'm wasting my 50th post on some potentially dumb theory but i literally haven't been able to sleep trying to sort this game out cause it just doesn't make fuckin sense given the mech we know, who the villagey posters are, and what the given poe is and whre ppl are pushin. what other power could wolves have in this game if we town has 2 protectors, an inventor with tracks and jailkeeps, and a fuckin arsonist,and an extra miselim over the standard 25% ratio? how could wolves overcome 4 PRs with an inventor and (seemingly) only town/3p KP with 2 other PRs (ignore that we miskilled one hehe :))? and we have not seen that power in the form of killpower or anything else (beyond what we can assume is truthful from manti and at worst =EV if he's wolf and has to hand out disloyal inventions)

feel free to ignore me but i legit think this is probably correct. why the fuck else would that role be worded that way

I don't know that this theory being true makes it so we need to adjust the poe as a result of it. i ... dk.

even if we had confirmation this was correct, i don't even know how this shakes up the POE or if it even should?

im capped, call me an idiot i guess. call me wolfy for postcapping and not being able to give a vote at eod. i just kinda feel like this thought is more important than my singular vote atp. sorry i'm useless this game and post-happyi just wouldnt be able to forgive myself if this tinfoil was on the right track and i had the thought and i didn't get it out

if this theory is true we are in an 8:3 world so my unvote shouldn't be too costly. sorry if i fucked up.

unvote: ender

[Lissa]

i legit don't really have enough brain cells rn to properly think about that theory to be honest

it seems possible

[Lissa]

visor thinking me and benneh are the wolves is like

idk man that is a wild theory lol

eod1 just doesnt play out like that in that world ever

and benneh is like actually ludicrously villagery

i don't... really understand why he takes that angle as a wolf though

there is plenty of relatively more reasonable angles from the position he is in

[Visor]

I just don't believe either benneh or Lissa as villagers would be so incredibly uncharitable to arctic y'day

[Visor]

visor thinking me and benneh are the wolves is like

idk man that is a wild theory lol

eod1 just doesnt play out like that in that world ever

and benneh is like actually ludicrously villagery

i don't... really understand why he takes that angle as a wolf though

there is plenty of relatively more reasonable angles from the position he is in

Play out like what? Neither of you actively voted rask until he was a three person leading wagon

He was already dead at that point, you just pushed him off the cliff

[dyachei]

Each night, target a player (you may self-target). If they are the same alignment as you, defuse any bombs strapped to them. You are told when you successfully defuse a bomb. If you target a villager with a bomb strapped to them on the night they die, only their alignment will be shown when they flip.

ok so if benneh is right, we vote out taffy today, don't we? or am I misunderstanding? ben's right that there's no reason for this unless there's a lost wolf or unless the host wants the wolf team to think there's a lost wolf. Which means that either taffy is a 3p and the host had bastard elements or taffy is a lost wolf.

In which case, we really need to get a wolf today

unvote

vote: taffy

[dyachei]

visor what are your thoughts on ben's post?

[Visor]

ok so if benneh is right, we vote out taffy today, don't we? or am I misunderstanding? ben's right that there's no reason for this unless there's a lost wolf or unless the host wants the wolf team to think there's a lost wolf. Which means that either taffy is a 3p and the host had bastard elements or taffy is a lost wolf.

In which case, we really need to get a wolf today

unvote

vote: taffy

It doesn't necessarily imply the existence of a lost wolf, but I can certainly seem how that would come across

Gemma comes from DLP iirc so I have just been assuming three wolves left anyway

Thinking on it some more the argument is a little convincing

Hmm.....

[Visor]

Raskolnikov was:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You are [Symphony No. 4 by Gloria Coates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyRatFogE0U)
Gloria Coates is top of all the lists. Her symphonies barely register as symphonies, instead they feel like a single, complex sound, which emerges from a crater in the Earth, changing and growing as the creature making the sound shifts slowly in the crust, or which looms watchfully out of sight behind the clouds. More than any other composer or musician, Gloria creates music not out of notes but out of raw feeling.

You are Demolitions Expert

You win when your team reaches parity with Town and no other threats to your team remain.

You have the following abilities:

Each night, target a player (you may self-target). If they are the same alignment as you, defuse any bombs strapped to them. You are told when you successfully defuse a bomb. If you target a villager with a bomb strapped to them on the night they die, only their alignment will be shown when they flip.

Quoting for full

Part of the problem is the self target aspect but

There's a good point, why would you be told when you successfully defuse a bomb unless you use it to try find wolves?

I'm not sure if this makes taffy a wolf though?

[waza]

you cannot possibly be trying to tell me that those are comparable situations at all

come the f on my dude

there is a massive difference between eliminating a pr claim on d1 without any further information, and eliminating a pr claim on d2 in a situation where there was a strong reason to think that the claim comes from a wolf (also i disagree that he was THAT towny before but it's kind of beside the point frankly) like i thought he had basically outed himself

i OBVIOUSLY do not think you just never eliminate anyone who claimed pr

why on earth are you acting like these are anywhere near the same thing

Well the way I see it is there was info

The info was taffy’s posts, and people who were pushing there had issues with their posts and claim (ie ladd and Arctic). A Wolfy slot with a Wolfy claim still has wolf equity, so by those principles taffy should be vote worthy despite the claim.

That’s essentially what happened with Arctic, you viewed his posts and Wolfy and his claim as Wolfy.

The two situations are fairly similar in principle , they just happened on different days.

[Visor]

Wonder if maple gives out inventions and bombs lol

[didistetter]

@nebjiamn yes i correctly read it. The only world taffy is a wolf is like... lost wolf? The need to diffuse mafia at all doesn't coexist well with maf bomber

:wowee:

bro why'd u cap on it instead of diiscussing it with me when i mentioned LW like 18 hours ago

-_-

yall are gonna kill taffy. they're gonna either be lw or villy. if she's villy y'all will chain taffy into killing ben and he'll be villy. game will probs be cooked or over at that point.

if we just wanna remove the kp from the game that's fine.

I do think taffy 1. being worried visor tracked him and 2. saying if he targetted anyone last night he would have targetted me b/c "paranoia" is extraordinarily weird stuff.

if taffy's lw wolf remove maple from lim pool, and i'd still go ender before lissa.