Kylo Ren's Banana Time Mafia

[ladd]

Honestly my only hung up on voting visor is that lissa is prob more likely to vote me over visor and we d lose

But otoh i am not sure i feel like picking between you and ender rn

[Visor]

disappointing amount of card holding going on

i am probably going to vote tonight because i want my fate in my hands, have regretted holding too many times in too many games

time to reread

[Sunbae]

Im actually here a bit early if you wanna wait a sec and yap

[Visor]

Im actually here a bit early if you wanna wait a sec and yap

sure

I'd like to know what you thought of ladd's handling of me yesterday, specifically regarding me trying to get him to push maple (and him tangentially pushing them through me)

now i am aware this is heavy confirmation bias, but it felt to me like he was letting me basically go wild on that front, without actually being willing to dirty his hands with anythign surrounding maple

where do you stand on that, what were you thinking reading it?

[Visor]

i need to get a handle on lissas game, thoughts would help there too

while you're at it, what do you make of enders posts yesterday?

[Visor]

actually i also want to know your reaction when you saw the eod flip

like what was your snap response there?

[Sunbae]

hm. I looked back at his most recent post and it does make me feel a certain kind of way

to springboard off the commentary mode/sidelining line of thought a bit, the post brought to mind a certain sort of "sideline reasonable explainer" archetype i think is prolly somewhat >rand wolf

well I'd say this specific post fits that

I disliked you sheeping ender. Might be a wording issue, but enders entry was clearly not reasonable and should not be sheeped for no good reason.
Everything else you did was fine.

I disliked Lissa's post on me right now more, and she has been pushing on you before.
(The post she picked in context was a direct reaction to Ender, where I explain something that happened.)

In addition to that, it is the 2nd (?) time Lissa picks up someone's slight doubt and makes it her own push.

i need to get a handle on lissas game, thoughts would help there too

while you're at it, what do you make of enders posts yesterday?

One moment im pulling some votecounts to organize in one place. Then I will pull sequences from both Lissa and Ender and discuss them.

[Sunbae]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 92

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Visor	Cape90 (14), Raskolnikov (10)
2	Jan	ladd (9)
9	Not Voting	EnderWiggin (0), Jan (4), Lissa (2), Logic (0), Maple (2), Sunbae (9), Vanta Black (12), Visor (4), waza (8)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 190

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Lissa	Raskolnikov (20), Visor (28)
2	Jan	ladd (15)
1	Visor	Cape90 (22)
1	Maple	EnderWiggin (17)
1	waza	Sunbae (21)
6	Not Voting	Jan (7), Lissa (4), Logic (1), Maple (6), Vanta Black (14), waza (14)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 211

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Lissa	Raskolnikov (20), Visor (30)
2	Jan	ladd (15)
1	Visor	Cape90 (26)
1	Maple	EnderWiggin (19)
1	waza	Sunbae (21)
6	Not Voting	Jan (7), Lissa (13), Logic (3), Maple (7), Vanta Black (14), waza (14)

Deadline is in 8 hours.

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 299

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Logic	Cape90 (35), ladd (25)
2	Lissa	Raskolnikov (31), Visor (30)
1	Maple	EnderWiggin (29)
1	waza	Sunbae (21)
1	EnderWiggin	Maple (23)
1	Cape90	Lissa (34)
4	Not Voting	Jan (16), Logic (3), Vanta Black (14), waza (14)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 328

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Logic	Cape90 (35), ladd (32)
2	Maple	EnderWiggin (29), Visor (35)
1	Visor	Raskolnikov (35)
1	waza	Sunbae (21)
1	EnderWiggin	Maple (23)
1	Cape90	Lissa (37)
1	Jan	Vanta Black (18)
3	Not Voting	Jan (16), Logic (3), waza (16)

1.5 hours to deadline

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 1 - Votes from post 5 through 338

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
4	Logic	Cape90 (35), Lissa (39), ladd (34)
2	Maple	EnderWiggin (29), Visor (35)
1	Visor	Raskolnikov (39)
1	waza	Sunbae (21)
1	EnderWiggin	Maple (23)
1	Jan	Vanta Black (18)
3	Not Voting	Jan (16), Logic (3), waza (17)

1 hour to deadline

d1 vc

[Sunbae]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 396

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Visor	Raskolnikov (9), waza (1)
1	Raskolnikov	Visor (2)
1	Lissa	Sunbae (9)
7	Not Voting	Cape90 (2), EnderWiggin (0), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (2), ladd (1)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 427

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Visor	EnderWiggin (6), Raskolnikov (9), waza (1)
2	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (13), Visor (14)
6	Not Voting	Cape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (3), ladd (1)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 456

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Lissa	Raskolnikov (16), ladd (4)
2	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (13), Visor (14)
2	Visor	EnderWiggin (11), waza (13)
5	Not Voting	Cape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (4)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 512

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Lissa	Jan (6), Raskolnikov (23)
2	Visor	EnderWiggin (11), waza (15)
2	Jan	Lissa (14), ladd (9)
1	Maple	Visor (23)
1	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (21)
3	Not Voting	Cape90 (9), Logic (0), Maple (7)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 516

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Lissa	Jan (6), Raskolnikov (23)
2	Visor	EnderWiggin (11), waza (15)
2	Jan	Lissa (14), ladd (9)
1	Maple	Visor (26)
1	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (21)
2	Not Voting	Cape90 (9), Maple (7)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 550

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Lissa	Jan (6), Raskolnikov (26)
2	Visor	EnderWiggin (11), waza (20)
2	Jan	Lissa (26), ladd (9)
1	Maple	Visor (26)
1	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (21)
2	Not Voting	Cape90 (9), Maple (20)

d2vc through near eod (not all the way but mq is being weird)

[Sunbae]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 396

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Visor	Raskolnikov (9), waza (1)
1	Raskolnikov	Visor (2)
1	Lissa	Sunbae (9)
7	Not Voting	Cape90 (2), EnderWiggin (0), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (2), ladd (1)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 427

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Visor	EnderWiggin (6), Raskolnikov (9), waza (1)
2	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (13), Visor (14)
6	Not Voting	Cape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (3), ladd (1)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 456

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Lissa	Raskolnikov (16), ladd (4)
2	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (13), Visor (14)
2	Visor	EnderWiggin (11), waza (13)
5	Not Voting	Cape90 (9), Jan (0), Lissa (0), Logic (0), Maple (4)

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 554

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Lissa	Jan (6), Raskolnikov (29)
2	Visor	EnderWiggin (11), waza (20)
2	Jan	Lissa (26), ladd (9)
1	Maple	Visor (26)
1	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (21)
2	Not Voting	Cape90 (9), Maple (20)

Deadline in 3 hours.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 588

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
4	Jan	Cape90 (19), Lissa (38), Visor (31), ladd (9)
2	Lissa	Jan (6), Raskolnikov (29)
1	Visor	waza (25)
1	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (21)
2	Not Voting	EnderWiggin (12), Maple (20)

40 minutes

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 601

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
4	Jan	Cape90 (20), Lissa (42), Visor (36), ladd (9)
3	Lissa	EnderWiggin (13), Jan (6), Raskolnikov (29)
1	Visor	waza (26)
1	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (21)
1	Not Voting	Maple (20)

mq feature is borked for a lot sorry

[Sunbae]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 675

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	waza	Cape90 (29), Lissa (59), Visor (48)
2	Lissa	EnderWiggin (17), Raskolnikov (29)
2	Jan	ladd (9), waza (40)
1	Maple	Jan (17)
1	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (21)
1	Not Voting	Maple (20)

waza dies.

final vc

[Sunbae]

Visor is Ladd just bussing Jan from the get go? d1 and d2? And commenting that he doesnt agree with my v real on Jan because he's in commentary mode?

Like here's where I'm at:

- In order for Ladd to be a wolf I have to believe that he started bussing Jan from the start of the game while Jan never pushed back or bussed back on him for it to be w/w theater. Otherwise he just consistently voted Jan and defended 3 villagers (cape, waza, rask) who were all getting pushed.

- In order for Lissa to be a wolf I have to believe that she started getting heat early day 2, Jan was getting heat, and she began project confidently bus Jan then swapped to Waza when the opportunity presented itself. Otherwise she just buried Jan.


- In order for Ender to be a wolf I just have to believe he either claimed Capes shot on Jan or there was a mechanical ploy to try and send Ender deep. That is the only villagery thing for ender once maple flips v.

- In order for you to be a wolf you need to have voted as the 4th vote on Jan and then swapped to Waza when the opportunity presented itself.


Two of these things are true. Figuring out which two is where I'm at today

[Sunbae]

So now I'll go through those key sequences for Ender/Lissa

[Sunbae]

Vote: Unvote

I have had a day. Idk how much time I'll have to properly read leading up to EOD. But with this I think I'm more okay with Jan or Lissa dying over Visor now.

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 370 through 588

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
4	Jan	Cape90 (19), Lissa (38), Visor (31), ladd (9)
2	Lissa	Jan (6), Raskolnikov (29)
1	Visor	waza (25)
1	Raskolnikov	Sunbae (21)
2	Not Voting	EnderWiggin (12), Maple (20)

40 minutes

I completely dozed off while trying to catch up lolme.

Vote: Lissa

why lissa now?

where are you at on jan?

@EnderWiggin why did you choose to vote me over jan there

This is the sequence I'm going to win or lose t he game on and it comes down to can I decipher it correctly

[Sunbae]

Mechanically:

- Lissa today has confirmed to me that you do not have to use the parting gift which means Jan actively used it. If Ender is a wolf he votes Visor, says Jan + Lissa also wolfy, comes back and sees Jan/Lissa wagons and votes Lissa. When asked later he said to bring things closer and making it 4-3 does track. Perhaps Jan thought he could talk Ender into v reading him and use that shield because Ender voted Lissa over him. I could see it. The issue is it makes perfect sense for wolf ender to vote villager lissa in that spot, get the extra kill, then use the Jan kill to go deep. Perhaps I should have shut my mouth yesterday and just considered Ender clear then they probs kill villa ender.

I feel so dumb because Ender is either lock clear or outed and I can't figure out which

[Sunbae]

Visor has really talked about wanting to read Ender but then like not reading ender like twice today, in the second post being like "Ender is tomorrow's problem"

I'm a little mixed on EnderWiggin, like he has moments that feel natural, but then moments that feel kinda wolfy from like a static reads POV

but like #424 into #425 could be like towny n stuff in like a "hey they looked back and thats cool" kind of way

Vote:waza

Lissa seems like a really bad vote right now, like I think i'd vote quite literally everyone else in this lobby (besides self) over Lissa

Ok me, then why isn't it just visor/ender


Ladd pushed jan consistently
Lissa pushed Jan hard

Visor was vote 4 on jan then moved, Ender voted Lissa over Jan

Visor and Ender have been bringing each other up but nothing really ever came from any of it

[Visor]

Visor is Ladd just bussing Jan from the get go? d1 and d2? And commenting that he doesnt agree with my v real on Jan because he's in commentary mode?

Like here's where I'm at:

- In order for Ladd to be a wolf I have to believe that he started bussing Jan from the start of the game while Jan never pushed back or bussed back on him for it to be w/w theater. Otherwise he just consistently voted Jan and defended 3 villagers (cape, waza, rask) who were all getting pushed.

- In order for Lissa to be a wolf I have to believe that she started getting heat early day 2, Jan was getting heat, and she began project confidently bus Jan then swapped to Waza when the opportunity presented itself. Otherwise she just buried Jan.


- In order for Ender to be a wolf I just have to believe he either claimed Capes shot on Jan or there was a mechanical ploy to try and send Ender deep. That is the only villagery thing for ender once maple flips v.

- In order for you to be a wolf you need to have voted as the 4th vote on Jan and then swapped to Waza when the opportunity presented itself.


Two of these things are true. Figuring out which two is where I'm at today

its a fair point - though i think you are overstating his jan elements.

he did definitely post qualms about it for sure though. i will accept that his defence of rask was good and accurate.

i think there were others, but i remember pushing back a little against your jan v read d1, mostly because i didn't think he had done anything worth being so strongly in favour of

[Sunbae]

I liked cape, ender and sunbae the most when catching up today.

I think this was a good post by waza while everything else he did was kind of whatever.



Vote:Lissa

Raskolnikov
EnderWiggin

Cape90
Sunbae

waza
ladd
Visor

Maple
Lissa


This is my order right now.

Maple is not a wolf by play and just down there because everyone above has done things to be towny.

Rask is toptier purely on vibes.
Enders d1 intro rarely comes from a wolf and I liked his d2 start as well.

yeah i just dont know if i can get there on it being lissa friends

[Visor]

Ok me, then why isn't it just visor/ender


Ladd pushed jan consistently
Lissa pushed Jan hard

Visor was vote 4 on jan then moved, Ender voted Lissa over Jan

Visor and Ender have been bringing each other up but nothing really ever came from any of it

why wouldn't i just.... post a read on my bro, if we were w/w?

its not like i haven't done that plenty on here before

i mean thats just not how i wolf, if i'm going to bus a bro, i'll bus him till he dies and I get the credit

if i was a wolf with jan i just kill him and ride the credit to winning the game

[Sunbae]

its a fair point - though i think you are overstating his jan elements.

he did definitely post qualms about it for sure though. i will accept that his defence of rask was good and accurate.

i think there were others, but i remember pushing back a little against your jan v read d1, mostly because i didn't think he had done anything worth being so strongly in favour of

My concerns with the Jan elements are that he voted jan as a double voter immediately and then voted jan day 2 before leaving too.

HOWEVER i can understand how it happens if he expects to be afk and dead soon as was surprised he was alive? so im not locked in on anything, im working through it (i decided i wanted to puzzle solve instead of being hush hush, sue me)

[Visor]

My concerns with the Jan elements are that he voted jan as a double voter immediately and then voted jan day 2 before leaving too.

HOWEVER i can understand how it happens if he expects to be afk and dead soon as was surprised he was alive? so im not locked in on anything, im working through it (i decided i wanted to puzzle solve instead of being hush hush, sue me)

given jans activity and ladds, it wouldn't be somethign that surprises me

particularly if ladd was a role that had the ability to either detect or prevent poison, but thats speculation territory lol and idk how tinfoilly i want to get in f5

[Visor]

where do you stand on me then, given what you've said above?

[Sunbae]

why wouldn't i just.... post a read on my bro, if we were w/w?

its not like i haven't done that plenty on here before

i mean thats just not how i wolf, if i'm going to bus a bro, i'll bus him till he dies and I get the credit

if i was a wolf with jan i just kill him and ride the credit to winning the game

Ok I wanna take a step back and view things as you V and my feeling on Ladd v

What if we have this scenario:

- Lissa is leading vote getter d2 early
- Jan is being voted by Ladd for two day and is getting heat
- At one point they are tied for the lead
- Ender has been pushing you and maple then shifts to jan and lissa
- Lissa starts pushing Jan, Jan votes Lissa, votes are 4-2 and Ender votes Lissa because Jan has the parting gift
- The plan is to have Lissa go over, have Ender kill Jan, and solo hero as someone who pushed/killed both wolves
- They get bailed out because the waza wagon pops up, follow through on the jan plan since he already claimed so he has to send it to someone


and poof this game suddenly is so difficult because its massively muddled up with bussing galore

[Sunbae]

where do you stand on me then, given what you've said above?

I find you and Ladd villagery on posting still which is why Im struggling this game. Via posting I think you two are the villageriest two while mechanically/dealing with the deal wolf I think ender (killed)/lissa (push) are and I'm hung up in my "my vibes vs mechanics" torn viewpoints. I'm also baffled by how locked in both of you are on each other - you on him more given i think if you read his posts he's just been massively pro villa this game and you dont seem to have really considered that - but yeah. Part of me thinks both of you would have an easier time seeing the other as villagery as villagers so i also have a SMALL FEAR that its both of you.

[Visor]

here's the nightmare worlds for me at the moment

you/ladd w/w, where yall use the foregone conclusion of maple dying to set up for f5/f3

ladd/me (and one of sunbae/lissa/ender) v, because all it is is a waiting game until we lose

[Visor]

I find you and Ladd villagery on posting still which is why Im struggling this game. Via posting I think you two are the villageriest two while mechanically/dealing with the deal wolf I think ender (killed)/lissa (push) are and I'm hung up in my "my vibes vs mechanics" torn viewpoints. I'm also baffled by how locked in both of you are on each other - you on him more given i think if you read his posts he's just been massively pro villa this game and you dont seem to have really considered that - but yeah. Part of me thinks both of you would have an easier time seeing the other as villagery as villagers so i also have a SMALL FEAR that its both of you.

heres my problem with ladd:

i accept they have done towny things, and that they have made pro village actions. the problem is how ladd has treated me specifically, especially yesterday when it feels like its a turbo f3 and trying to bury someone, where it doesn't really matter if what you're saying is accurate so much as that it has enough behind it to make someone question long enough to vote wrong

i've talked about a few of my other problems with ladd, but at the moment thats the core one. i don't think hes ever tried to really find me as a villager and instead its more what can i sling to get heat onto him

frankly these days i am easily miskilled, pretty sure i've been miskilled in like the last 10 village games i've played lol, so when i see someone who should know better pushing that line it makes me think what the fuck is going on

[Visor]

if ladd is a villager, then my self focused lens and inability to look past it has failed me yet again, and it would be incredibly frustrating to lose such a winnable game because i couldn't get out of my head regarding it. so i will listen ofc, its f5 i refuse to not reconsider things

[Sunbae]

If it helps I think I can reasonably point to me/ender not being w/w (ive spent two days undermining him shooting jan, which side note i think should actually clear me because either im with ender and thats insane to do OR im a wolf with ender villager and why am im throwing a fit about something that is verifiably true which nobody else is even considering at the time nor really cares when i bring it up yet i keep harping on it)

I also point to ladd bringing up my jan shield and actively disagreeing with it while voting jan for two days as a reason him and i arent paired because i assure you we'd be more coordinated if we actually randed w/w together for once!

yay reads that are true but you can never believe til post game!

[Visor]

if i am being completely honest, i don't think i have played a more villagery game since.... god i don't know like 2022 or something lol (not that it has translated to being good at catching wolves apparently....)

i've actually had time to play this game for the most part and its been fun to play with you guys, but also a sad reminder of just how bad i am compared to where i used to be lol

[Sunbae]

heres my problem with ladd:

i accept they have done towny things, and that they have made pro village actions. the problem is how ladd has treated me specifically, especially yesterday when it feels like its a turbo f3 and trying to bury someone, where it doesn't really matter if what you're saying is accurate so much as that it has enough behind it to make someone question long enough to vote wrong

i've talked about a few of my other problems with ladd, but at the moment thats the core one. i don't think hes ever tried to really find me as a villager and instead its more what can i sling to get heat onto him

frankly these days i am easily miskilled, pretty sure i've been miskilled in like the last 10 village games i've played lol, so when i see someone who should know better pushing that line it makes me think what the fuck is going on

Ok I understand that. Do you think it could ever be ladd/lissa? In fact can I get your extended take on Lissa? You were around during the jan burial and eod so youd have a better understanding of the flow/vibes than i do reading it in hindsight