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  1. #1
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    What marriage was in the past has absolutely nothing to do with what it can be in the future. That's like saying we shouldn't use oil in cars because we used to use them only for lamps.
    Notice how we call them "cars", not "lamps". Same-sex partnerships cannot be a marriage, they are something completely different and should be acknowledged as such, just as cars are different to lamps.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Notice how we call them "cars", not "lamps". Same-sex partnerships cannot be a marriage, they are something completely different and should be acknowledged as such, just as cars are different to lamps.
    No. It's different from what marriage was. But as we make up a new meaning for it, we can choose not to care about what it once was, and also what it still may be in the head of a few people. Thankfully, that's just what the people here did. I'm sure the yanks will follow eventually
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    No. It's different from what marriage was. But as we make up a new meaning for it, we can choose not to care about what it once was, and also what it still may be in the head of a few people. Thankfully, that's just what the people here did. I'm sure the yanks will follow eventually
    Quite possibly. But the first step Europe made along these lines was, in many Western European nations, to discard organized religion more or less entirely. Lacking any reverance for religious tradition, the viewpoint you highlight is rather a simple step.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Quite possibly. But the first step Europe made along these lines was, in many Western European nations, to discard organized religion more or less entirely. Lacking any reverance for religious tradition, the viewpoint you highlight is rather a simple step.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Notice how we call them "cars", not "lamps". Same-sex partnerships cannot be a marriage, they are something completely different and should be acknowledged as such, just as cars are different to lamps.
    Hang on. Is your argument simply that words cannot change their meanings over time, therefore homosexual couples cannot get married? That's a little far out. I take it you don't call flashlights 'torches,' since they aren't burning on the end of a stick. And you probably don't call automobiles 'cars' since they aren't drawn by livestock as a car should be. And you probably only call the bad guy in a movie the 'villain' if he's a peasant. And of course you'd never call that thing you're using to move your cursor around a 'mouse.' That'd be simply ridiculous. Well, the rest of the world doesn't have such a stagnant view of language, and we've moved on. But you're certainly welcome to think that way. I suppose it makes the world a little more interesting.

    Ajax

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    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxfetish View Post
    Hang on. Is your argument simply that words cannot change their meanings over time, therefore homosexual couples cannot get married? That's a little far out. I take it you don't call flashlights 'torches,' since they aren't burning on the end of a stick. And you probably don't call automobiles 'cars' since they aren't drawn by livestock as a car should be. And you probably only call the bad guy in a movie the 'villain' if he's a peasant. And of course you'd never call that thing you're using to move your cursor around a 'mouse.' That'd be simply ridiculous. Well, the rest of the world doesn't have such a stagnant view of language, and we've moved on. But you're certainly welcome to think that way. I suppose it makes the world a little more interesting.

    Ajax
    These word games are getting ridiculous. The purpose of a car is to get you around, its defining point is that it is a means of transportation (that has certain characteristics eg 4 wheels and used on roads), not the fact that it is drawn by livestock.

    The fundamental idea of a marriage is that it is between one man and one woman. So if all marriages were to take place in supermarkets, then without going into religious sensitivities they could still be called a marriage. Take two men though, and we have a problem.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Take two men though, and we have a problem.
    just a small correction....we don´t have a problem....you have a problem.
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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    just a small correction....we don´t have a problem....you have a problem.
    No you have a problem too you're just pretending it doesn't exist.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  9. #9
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    No you have a problem too you're just pretending it doesn't exist.

    Well the problem is people who think gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, so we now the problem is there and were trying to solve it... but you guys keep disagreeing
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    No you have a problem too you're just pretending it doesn't exist.
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  11. #11
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prop 8 to pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    The fundamental idea of a marriage is that it is between one man and one woman.
    You're welcome to assume this is true. You are not welcome to assume everyone else agrees with you. We don't. And you addressed one of my examples (which are a mere handful of the thousands of words that have changed meaning over time). What about 'villain'? What's the fundamental meaning of the word, and how has it stayed the same from when it meant peasants to when it meant evildoers? You're making up a rule that doesn't exist, and then trying to use that rule to prevent a large group of people from enjoying the familial structure they desire.

    Ajax

    "I do not yet know how chivalry will fare in these calamitous times of ours." --- Don Quixote
    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

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