Animal rights thread

[Tristuskhan]

Thats impractial and pretty impossible for most people though.

It's a matter of choice. I won't eat meat if I do not know where and how the animal was bred and killed. So I seldom have meat.

And again, go work in a slaughterhouse or spend a few nights emptying factory poultry farms. It's a good lesson about life and death.

[Strike For The South]

It's a matter of choice. I won't eat meat if I do not know where and how the animal was bred and killed. So I seldom have meat.

That is your choice

[Tristuskhan]

That is your choice

Well, when you are broke enough to have to work in meat industry, it's not a choice...

PS: two months on a trawler got me rid of fish when I don't know who fished it. I'm almost vegetarian now.

[Strike For The South]

Well, when you are broke enough to have to work in meat industry, it's not a choice...

PS: two months on a trawler got me rid of fish when I don't know who fished it. I'm almost vegetarian now.

But that is simply not an option for most people especially those with children. The point is that we shouldn't go out of the way to harm any being but human needs outweigh those of animal ones.

[Yoyoma1910]

Who here has ever gutted something or been in a butchers shop? Just asking.

I grew up seasoning a rather large amount of animals. My father really enjoys hunting, but doesn't like to dress his kills. I also used to raise rabbits, from cradle to market. Tonight I'll be peeling 10 Lbs of shrimp.

[Tristuskhan]

But that is simply not an option for most people especially those with children. The point is that we shouldn't go out of the way to harm any being but human needs outweigh those of animal ones.

Agreed, but I won't feed my children with the polluted crap coming out of factory farming.

[Strike For The South]

Agreed, but I won't feed my children with the polluted crap coming out of factory farming.

If you have the means to do that great.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Apologies if there already is a thread on this, but I'd like to open a discussion about it.

Question: What, if any, rights do animals have? What rights should they have? I have long pondered this question.
hunting for sport instead of for survival
Have at it!

Define Survival. I'm a hunter, and I hunt because..... I like the food and I think it's fun. When I mean fun, I mean ,I don't go and shoot a rabbit or a deer, take a picture of it with me standing by it smiling and walking off and leaving it there. Fun to me is, you go out in the woods, and if you don't get something, fine, and if I get something..... I have someone take a picture of me standing next to it, then we gut it, and take it home to eat.





to me, Animal rights is a joke. Yeah, I hate people who abuse dogs and that for no reason (I hate cats, so I don't care about them frankly), but still..... Humans are more important here.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Cats are animals. They kill other animals. People are animals. They kill other animals. You can't reasonably object to people killing animals on a moral basis without also objecting to cats on a moral basis.

[Tristuskhan]

If you have the means to do that great.

Food is the last thing I put restrictions on. I won't eat crap in order to travel, buy nice clothes or spend nights out. Just a matter of choice, again.

Sasaki, you're a great philosopher! The topic is more on animal suffering than animal killing. No one is objecting people killing animals here. The matter is how they are killed. And we're not cats, by the way.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Cats are animals. They kill other animals. People are animals. They kill other animals. You can't reasonably object to people killing animals on a moral basis without also objecting to cats on a moral basis.

Lions Kill other animals... Tigers do.... Cheetahs do...... Snakes do... They are all animals,lizard, whatever you like to call them and they kill things for what.... Food?

Why do I hunt primarly? Food... Well.

Sure, you got a point, but doesn't change my viewpoint about cats much.

[Guildenstern]

Question: What, if any, rights do animals have? What rights should they have?
where is the line?

I'd like to state in advance that I have not a clear opinion about the subject. I hope this thread will help me make one.

I just think we should err on the side of caution in ascribing rights to human or non-human creatures. If we place high standards (such as the ability to think, speak, or even to enter into a social contract) on the ascription of rights there is a danger than not only animals, but also human infants and mentally handicapped adults will be excluded from basic rights.

I will try to clarify my thoughts through other posts.

[Strike For The South]

Food is the last thing I put restrictions on. I won't eat crap in order to travel, buy nice clothes or spend nights out. Just a matter of choice, again.
.

well yes but sometimes people cant afford those things to begin with

[Yoyoma1910]

BTW, one of the largest environment concerns here is a giant dead zone, the size of New Jersey, in the Gulf Of Mexico. And the leading cause is the over production of corn in the Midwest.


Sierra Club Website, about it

Where does the Dead Zone come from?
Scientific research has indicated that the excess nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus) result from human activities in the upstream Mississippi River watershed. The principal areas contributing nutrients to the Mississippi River, and ultimately to the Gulf, are streams draining the corn belt states, particularly Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and southern Minnesota.

Edu websitte



article from 2004




If you really cared about animals, maybe you should consider a cessation of your over corn consumption. Or follow any of these steps:

Ask your state's Governor to establish numeric nutrient standards to protect waters from pollution. You could make the following points:

* Nutrient pollution is one of the biggest water quality problems in the nation.

* The state has had many years to set numeric standards for nitrogen and phosphorus. Delay is only making pollution worse. The state should set these standards by no later than 2008.

* The state standards should be set low enough to protect downstream waters from excessive nutrients. States are not allowed to contribute to the degradation of downstream waters.

* It is important that the state set standards for all waterbodies to ensure that nutrient pollution is reduced across the board. (Some states are planning to set standards for some waterbodies, delaying standards for others.)

* The state should follow the EPA's technical guidance for developing standards. If not, the state must use a scientifically-defensible method. (Although states are free to use their own methods to develop standards, some states are developing their own methodologies more as a way to delay the process than to arrive at a standard which will protect water quality.)

* The state should set standards for both nitrogen and phosphorus. (Some states are planning to address only one of these nutrients.) You can find additional information on how to get involved in your state's process for setting nutrient standards here (pdf).

[Strike For The South]

I blame everything on the midwest anyway. Bunch of whiners

[Yoyoma1910]

I blame everything on the midwest anyway. Bunch of whiners

I agree, what do people need that much corn for anyway. It's not like they know how to make super awesome rum and red pepper corn bread.

[Strike For The South]

I agree, what do people need that much corn for anyway. It's not like they know how to make super awesome rum and red pepper corn bread.

They don't

[Yoyoma1910]

They don't

They may have the corn, but they don't have the red peppers, nor the rum.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The topic is more on animal suffering than animal killing. No one is objecting people killing animals here. The matter is how they are killed. And we're not cats, by the way.

Weren't people objecting to hunting for sport?

Cats are known to play with their food (as in "a game of cat and mouse"). This causes unnecessary suffering. Is it immoral to let your cat outside? But if you keep him inside aren't you imprisoning him???? I find these questions to be ridiculously trivial in comparison to actual human suffering. There's a tremendous amount of animal suffering that takes place and yet people only care about the tiny sliver of suffering that humans cause. That racehorse may have been shot when it broke its ankle but what do you think it's life would have been like in the wild?

By the way here's some free range chickens ,heh:

[Kralizec]

Who here has ever gutted something or been in a butchers shop? Just asking.

I've worked in a factory where they made sausages, steaks etc. I don't think it qualifies as a "butchery" because the pigs were butchered elsewhere and delivered to where I worked. The smell of 150 dead pigs in a cramped room is truly abominable.

EDIT: it didn't make me a vegetarian, though. Pork is just tasty

[Goofball]

Animals (other than humans) have no rights.

But to echo a common sentiment in the thread: if there are two ways to kill an animal before we eat it, and one method is much less painful and traumatic, then that is the method we should use.

[yesdachi]

Animals are going to be eaten but I see no reason to treat them with cruelty. People that deliberately cause pain to an animal without reason shouldn’t have an animal and should probably be given the same pain they gave the animal. I make a clear difference between a pet, livestock, a wild animal, and a pest and all have their own acceptable cruelty meter with a pest being lowest but even then there is no reason to pull the wings off a fly when you can just smash it.

[Fragony]

Been working in chicken and pig slaughterhouses some years ago. Only a few weeks, just more than enough to hate factory farming. I advice anyone who denies animal suffering (many do....) to spend a few nights in such places. The smell of death and fear. I was also part of a few pig and sheep "homemade" slaughters (both Hallal -for the sheep!!- and not) and it's definitely much better if the butcher knows his job. Hallal is still disturbing since you can't hammer the beast.

Never worked with pig butchers, only cattle and poultry, cattle is treated well, the animal isn't killed before it is at ease, regulations, but it's also better for the meat. There are no signs of the cow before it, poor thing has no idea what is happening, BLAM over. Everything is cleaned, next cow. Chickens get an electric shock prior to getting their head cut of, these 10 seconds hanging at their legs isn't the nicest thing to do but I really wouldn't know how to proces as many otherwise. The butchering part is really pretty merciful and only a minor aspect of the misery, we should improve living conditions.

[JR-]

i would like to see the violent animal rights activists hunted down using the same methods they employ by violent human rights activists.

[CountArach]

Animals (other than humans) have no rights.

But to echo a common sentiment in the thread: if there are two ways to kill an animal before we eat it, and one method is much less painful and traumatic, then that is the method we should use.

But doesn't that statement itself presuppose that the animal has a right to a dignified death where one is available?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cats are animals. They kill other animals. People are animals. They kill other animals. You can't reasonably object to people killing animals on a moral basis without also objecting to cats on a moral basis.

If an animal goes around killing people, would it be ok for people to go around killing people?

Just because an animal kills other animals for survival, defense and due to instinct, we do not need to inflict needless suffering on the innocent.

I'm of the theory that people should behave in a more civilized fashion than the animals.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Question: What, if any, rights do animals have? What rights should they have?

I don't know. I try not to kill them unless I am going to eat them or they threaten me. I don't believe that people should cause animals to suffer.

We should show animals the same respect that they show one another. There doesn't tend to be killing except in defense or to feed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't know. I try not to kill them unless I am going to eat them or they threaten me. I don't believe that people should cause animals to suffer.

We should show animals the same respect that they show one another. There doesn't tend to be killing except in defense or to feed.

How would you respond to those that say it's ok to kill animals for no reason, because animals kill other animals?

[ICantSpellDawg]

How would you respond to those that say it's ok to kill animals for no reason, because animals kill other animals?

Animals rarely kill other animals for no reason.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sasaki has argued that we can't object to senseless deaths of animals because cats hurt other animals. I think you've offered a good counter-argument.