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  1. #1
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910 View Post
    The small government parties, such as Libertarian and Green, both want a smaller government, but again want what remains focused in different directions.
    Greens are big government - just a small government in terms of interfering with the lives of citizens.
    Now, the question is, are Rousseau's ideas the official basis of the Republican party doctrine ? I doubt so, and I sincerely hope I'm right.
    No Rousseau had almost no influence that I can see on their party.
    Last edited by CountArach; 11-21-2008 at 05:49.
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  2. #2
    Ice stink there for a ham. Member Mystery Science Torture 3000 Champion, Mini Putt 3 Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion, Pencak Champion, Sperm Wars Champion, Monkey Diving Champion Yoyoma1910's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Greens are big government - just a small government in terms of interfering with the lives of citizens.

    No, the green party will replace the government with a nice shrubbery. One not too tall.
    Last edited by Yoyoma1910; 11-21-2008 at 07:03.

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  3. #3
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Bush blew the small government description out of the water for the next few years, I agree with Lemur.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    Vindicative son of a gun Member Jolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    My view on USA parties using my Left-Right dictomies:

    Marxism-Leninism/Communism (Communist Party USA) -|- Left-Wing Radicals (Socialist Party USA) - Social Democrat (Labor Party/Green Party) - Social Conservative (Constitution Party) - Social Liberal (Democratic Party) - Market Liberal (Republican Party/Libertarian Party) -|- Fascism/National Socialism (National Socialist White People's Party)
    BLARGH!

  5. #5
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Well the two main theories of the Enlightenment were that of republicanism and liberalism.

    I was simply saying, since the US was formed around this time, why would the Republican Party name themselves after an ideology that they at least claim to be contradictive to their own beliefs?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  6. #6
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Well the two main theories of the Enlightenment were that of republicanism and liberalism.

    I was simply saying, since the US was formed around this time, why would the Republican Party name themselves after an ideology that they at least claim to be contradictive to their own beliefs?

    I think essentially because the Republican party wasn't (of itself) formed of the Enlightenment and Independence.

    Both main parties have changed substantially over the years - IIRC, the Democratic Party was originally quite the flagship of slave-owners. Indeed - and more learned colleagues will correct me - I think Jefferson's original party was called the Democratic-Republicans.

    The Republican Party came into being and power with the election of Abraham Lincoln - one of its main platforms being the abolition of slavery.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Thanks for that Banquo. So the modern associations each party has are more of a modern phenomenon it would seem?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  8. #8
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Small government alright. Bush is even managing to outsource the army...
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  9. #9
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V View Post
    The people? The people? My dear fellow, surely you can't trust people, ordinary people, to do what they really want? The people doesn't know what it wants. Of course, they think they know what they want. A new shiny car, crummy plops for breakfast, dolphin-friendly potatos. But these are just things that they've been told that they need by however wants to make some dosh. How can they know what they want? Ask the average man in the street who, say, Aristotle, was, and they'd probably answer that it was the name of the man who ran the local kebab shop. Placing your faith in such people is like trusting children to properly run a sweet factory. Therein lies madness, my friend.
    Hmmm.... Are we seeing another fascist friend in the backroom, here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910 View Post
    No, the green party will replace the government with a nice shrubbery. One not too tall.
    With a little path running between?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  10. #10
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Hmmm.... Are we seeing another fascist friend in the backroom, here?
    So Winston Churchill was a fascist by your definition?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole.

    By this definition I think both parties qualify.

    I favor the rights of the individual at the expense of government. I think that a strict interpretation of the Construction is best and puts a limit on government interference.

    Neither American Political Party will do more than play lip service to the rights of the individual. I am not in favor of unrestrained capitalism, however, as that also has an effect on the rights of every individual and I do not believe that corporations should be treated as individuals under the law, but be regulated by the states or governments that they operate under.

    I can not reconcile these views with either party. One says it favors small government and individual rights while passing the Patriot Act. The other has advocated a Living Constitution (what in essence means that the constitution means what ever is most convenient to the government)

    The Elite of both Parties place the interests of special interest groups and their own personal power above that of the people and may actually believe that they know better than the people what they need.

    I find it difficult to understand why most people would affiliate themselves with either party.


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  12. #12
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole.

    By this definition I think both parties qualify.
    Teddybear is a bear that leads individuals on to believe it is all cute and cuddly. However, a closer inpection usually reveals they are not a bear at all. Just the fake promise of.

    By this definition I think both parties qualify. Like teddybears, none of their sweet promises ever turn out to be true. It is all falsehoods and deceit.

    Fascism and teddybears, that's what US politics is all about.
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  13. #13
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Oh god any bucket would do just mob me up

  14. #14
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole.
    Hang on. That's not the only distinguishing feature of Fascism, otherwise Communism and other utopian ideologies would fit into your definition. There's also stuff about the nation myth, relationship between corporate interests and ruling elite, and so on.

  15. #15
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    So Winston Churchill was a fascist by your definition?
    I place him in the "upper class brat" category.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  16. #16
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    I place him in the "upper class brat" category.
    I know what you mean, I would not be happy having him as my MP, the people of Dundee weren't anyway.

    However, you have to accept that he helped save the world from Nazism. At least give him credit for that.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  17. #17
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Hmmm.... Are we seeing another fascist friend in the backroom, here?
    Oh no, fascism is for people who feel insecure about their lack of height. I believe in freedom of speech and all that malarkey. I think of myself as more of a paternalist democrat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr
    I have never so wholeheartedly agreed with the sentiment of a post in the Backroom for a long, long time.
    The Backroom: where people get along. Sometimes.
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  18. #18
    lurker Member JR-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Hmmm.... Are we seeing another fascist friend in the backroom, here?
    i would have said that "authoritarian" would be a better description of the sentiment above.

  19. #19
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    However, you have to accept that he helped save the world from Nazism. At least give him credit for that.
    So did a lot of people I don't like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculu5 View Post
    i would have said that "authoritarian" would be a better description of the sentiment above.
    Yes, well... Pot-hay-to, potato....
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  20. #20
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    So did a lot of people I don't like.
    Without mass-murdering his own people...
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  21. #21
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicanism and Liberalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Without mass-murdering his own people...
    Lots of people who stopped the nazi's are people I don't like. And plenty of them didn't commit genocide.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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