The Irish are Not Celts

**Starance Quintus** · 12-06-2008, 04:34

Its amazing how complete languages can just disappear :) There is even projects within the military trying to determine a lot of historical evidence that has been classified. Europe is set to become completely Islamic, and that English will not be the 1st language.

**blitzkrieg80** · 12-06-2008, 04:43

[edit]
Riastradh, ah i see what the issue seems to be even though we've gone over it...
#1 - Q Celtic is not related to invasion by Celts / mainland or P-Celtic speakers who have been coined as 'THE CELTS' of antiquity, thus everyone is confused because nobody ever claimed this to be so. Now, if you disagree on what defines 'Celt' that is another discussion entirely and one that doesn't have much bearing on the origin of Ireland because it spans a much wider issue. When we speak of Celts game-wise and in descriptions, it means Celtic-speakers, and we can discuss if the description should or should not mention that aspect.

what is your evidence to associate 'Gaels' with pre Indo-Europeans, other than some side-commentary about population and current theoretical gene-tests concerning the area in general? how do you know 'Gael' has anything to do with them? if they were a population before Celtic-speakers, then would they not use an identity based NOT in Indo-European language? so you must be speaking of the people we term Gaels who are a conglomeration of peoples who we do not know about other than some related material culture rather than the Gaelic-speakers themselves? because 'Gael' as an identity is of Indo-European origin with much more substantial proof illustrating this than some non-verifiable speculation that the term is somehow based on those true pre Indo-Europeans peoples who existed before and beside them... you don't even mention the cultural traits / material related to the people you are referring, which makes me think you are not even sure who you're talking about... if we know so much about Megalithic culture, then why are we not discussing this? if so much is known about the Iberian roots and relation of the culture to first inhabit Ireland, why are these extra facts excluded from the discussion? all i read from you is that you read a scientific article that agrees with your theory and there was once a material culture reaching to the British Isles that no one disputes to have existed... where is your evidence that there is a direct connection? missing links... missing links [wait- is there an iceman i don't know about?]

we don't know the identity or language of pre-Celtic/Gaelic invaders in Ireland, so claiming you know they were pre Indo-European makes no sense, when you can't even verify WHERE the Indo-Europeans came from or at what extent they inhabited Europe during pre-history and before writing and linguistic tracing.

btw, those who rule the culture (Celtic aristocracy) at the time of the Gaels, would be called 'Gaels' and thus are Celtic, thus why they use Celtic language... saying the citizens of the Persian Empire are not Persian, or the Romans are not Roman, might be true (although only partially) yet it's not helpful or descriptive at all either, unless someone is trying to say they are ALL Persian and you're trying to make a point. we have not disagreed with you, that all citizens of Ireland at the time of EB are Celtic, we agree there were more to them than meets the eye...
_________________

so, if we don't call them Celts, we should call them Gaels? but Gael is just as much inaccurate because that would imply Celtic-speaking people, whether you think so or not. Politically-correct or making people happy with what they are comfortable hearing is not the issue. so then we must have a frame of reference for peoples before them, yet there is no record of a unified or related people before them... see where this is going?... call ancients 'British' instead of 'English' to signify non-Anglo-Saxons is very similar because it is WRONG. At no point in ancient or medieval time were the inhabitants of all Great Britain referred to as 'British' or 'Briton' by their own words... the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle refer to the Bretons as Bretwelas versus other Welsh (Celts) which means specifically that not all Celts in Britain even had the same identity. So, to make modern Celts in Great Britain happy, it would NOT be correct to call them 'British' other than for their own modern identity. The only reason Great Britain is the name of the island is because the Roman name was the first appropriate name and otherwise it had no identity. Hibernian were not same identity as ancient Irish either. There is no known name, if there was ever a collective identity which was lost. Sorry, that is a fact. Byzantines are similar too... they didn't call themselves Byzantines, but we use the term today!

__________________

Originally Posted by Starance Quintus

Its amazing how complete languages can just disappear :) There is even projects within the military trying to determine a lot of historical evidence that has been classified. Europe is set to become completely Islamic, and that English will not be the 1st language.

believe it or not, Islamic is not a language