Units: speculation, rumor, slander and silliness

[Martok]

Here's my pachyderm-related suggestions, because elephants are the REAL point of this thread.

Elephant Impressionist

Sneaks into the enemy camp at night and assasinates their general by sitting on him in his sleep. The elephant then dresses in the general's clothes and takes command of the enemy forces. Upon encountering these elephant-led forces in battle you will notice the 'enemy general' give deliberately stupid orders which in fact help the Elephant Impressionists side.

Interestingly these units were already in place in Medieval 2 and were responsible for certain things such as the passive AI 'bug'. Also every enemy general was one. No one noticed until now though.

As for the enemy soldiers not realising that their general is now several metres taller, grey, and has a trunk? Well the Elephant Impressionist is really good at voices, and he had some acting lessons... he's just THAT GOOD, ok?

Elephant Militia

Recruited from the local population of pachyderms sympathetic to your cause. In theory a militia unit of foaming at the mouth mad-with-patriotic-pride elephants would be a fearsome foe. However it is an almost immutable law of Total War games that unless you are playing as an Italian faction then militia sucks, so these elephants actually have one attack, no defense and negative one hitpoints, meaning that they keel over the instant the battle begins. Useful for a handy field ration.

Elephant Pipers

A famous historical unit, so CA has to include them. These shaggy highland elephants are renowned for their skill with the bagpipes and their ferocity in battle. Raises nearby unit morale. Famously they marched with Bonnie Prince Charlie all the way to the city of Derby, where contrary to popular belief he turned round because he realised Derby just wasn't worth it. The elephants, however, stayed and started up a pub. True story.

Not Actually An Elephant

This unit is really a French nobleman in a costume attempting to escape from the revolutionaries in France. His plan backfired when the zipper got stuck, and he was drafted with a local herd into fighting for the war effort. Mysteriously effective in combat.

The Omegaphant

Upon completion of its training this elephant ends the game with a victory for the faction who trained it. How does it do this? None can say, there were no survivors.

[Martok literally falls out of his chair laughing]

[Megas Methuselah]

I like the militias and french nobleman!

[Parado)(]

I sudgest Bear Cavalry.
Giant brown bears being ridden by mad musket wielding russians with bayonets.
Or Bears wielding muskets riding elephants.

[Polemists]

I sudgest Bear Cavalry.
Giant brown bears being ridden by mad musket wielding russians with bayonets.
Or Bears wielding muskets riding elephants.

Hello red alert 3, I didn't see you standing back there, tell me are blade wielding ninjas from the east also going to make a apperance?

[Sir Beane]

Hello red alert 3, I didn't see you standing back there, tell me are blade wielding ninjas from the east also going to make a apperance?

Since CA have forgotten Asia exists since they made Shogun I doubt anyone has to worry about that particular fantasy unit

Personally I would welcome black-clad, smokebomb-throwing ninja if it meant CA were also going to include the Far East in the game. Some ahistoric silliness can be forgiven in that case I think.

[Fisherking]

Ah yes! North America is in this game. That gives you alligators, bison, and the biggest bears of all to work with.

So how about Buffalo Cavalry and Alligator Artillery to counter some of those Elephant Rock Launchers! Both could also be used as temporary bridges to out flank the enemy. Of course a stampede would actually be enough to win a battle or destroy a settlement.

[Sir Beane]

Ah yes! North America is in this game. That gives you alligators, bison, and the biggest bears of all to work with.

So how about Buffalo Cavalry and Alligator Artillery to counter some of those Elephant Rock Launchers! Both could also be used as temporary bridges to out flank the enemy. Of course a stampede would actually be enough to win a battle or destroy a settlement.

I like the way you think Sir! Aliigator artillery would be perfect for Empire, as they could be used as both a land and naval unit! Also I imagine that tomahawk weilding bears would be a fearsome sight to behold.

And let us not forget the mighty Canadian beaver. They may be small, but that can chew through a towns walls in a few minutes flat. Perfect seige equipment! And they can use the wood to build things for you on their days off.

[Fisherking]

Great point Sir Beane!

But those wonderful Beavers put me in mind of something. Pioneers and Sappers! Where are they? I know this game must have entrenchments as well as several types of forts. Dose it mean they are only notional or will we be able to use them against enemy fortifications? But then again…the battles don’t last long enough for counter trenches and moving artillery forward under cover…but being able to start a battle entrenched would be a blessing…or a curse…

Anyway the beaver would be also useful in destroying enemy fleets at anchor.

[Parado)(]

Hello red alert 3, I didn't see you standing back there, tell me are blade wielding ninjas from the east also going to make a apperance?

The concept of bears that can fire laser beams is a concept that pre-dates RA3. I also wonder why blade wielding ninjas are so unusual. Oh sure they have a variety of useable killing impliments at thier disposal but a nice blade has a definate edge about it. Also factoring in that Ninjas originated from the east there coming from there would not be exactly suprising.

If it where included in the game I'd sudgest Kangaroo cavalry. Though i have to say Beavers as sappers is a great idea if they where backed up by the Moles :P

[Sir Beane]

The concept of bears that can fire laser beams is a concept that pre-dates RA3. I also wonder why blade wielding ninjas are so unusual. Oh sure they have a variety of useable killing impliments at thier disposal but a nice blade has a definate edge about it. Also factoring in that Ninjas originated from the east there coming from there would not be exactly suprising.

If it where included in the game I'd sudgest Kangaroo cavalry. Though i have to say Beavers as sappers is a great idea if they where backed up by the Moles :P

If only Australia were in the game. :P

As for the ninja, historically the guy dressed in black with the katana and shuriken was actually the distraction. While he was running around the castle throwing smoke bombs and generally being a nuisance the real assasin would finish of the target nice and quietly.

Usually the actual assasin got in a few weeks before posing as a cook, or a gardener, or a carpenter.

Fancy blades and things were rarely carried by ninja, Japan is a metal poor country so decent weapons werent affordable enough to give to expendable peons.

As for the moles as a backup to beavers? Excellent. Whilst the beavers chew through the gates the moles can be undermining foundations and placing explosives under key structural points.

*Sigh* All this talk of sappers is making me wish they would actually appear in game, which, alas, is unlikely.

[The New Che Guevara]

Then counter-revolution and form the Soviet Socialist Republic of Rome? SSRR?

I AM THERE!

I wonder...

What decides the revolutionary group in the revolution?

and what about the threat of monarchists if there is a successful revolution... (ie Jacobite, not the best... only one I really know).

So many questions... so little time.

Might like to extend timeline to fit in Marx and the rise of Socialism/Communism. Unite the world under one banner... my god, my dreams could become real!


Does anyone wonder about the side effects of games like these?
I have to stop myself... I'm starting to drool over the possibilities...

[lenin96]

Since CA have forgotten Asia exists since they made Shogun I doubt anyone has to worry about that particular fantasy unit

But CA gave ninjas to the romans in RTW so there will probaly be a crazy unit in ETW.

[Sir Beane]

I AM THERE!

I wonder...

What decides the revolutionary group in the revolution?

and what about the threat of monarchists if there is a successful revolution... (ie Jacobite, not the best... only one I really know).

So many questions... so little time.

Might like to extend timeline to fit in Marx and the rise of Socialism/Communism. Unite the world under one banner... my god, my dreams could become real!


Does anyone wonder about the side effects of games like these?
I have to stop myself... I'm starting to drool over the possibilities...

Woah there! You should probably calm down and wipe the drool away.

Please don't get any ideas about taking over the world after playing Empire, I doubt the current military strategists will be as easy to beat as a Total War general

Also can you imagine the headlines? "Gamer Driven To World Domination By Videogame!" Everyone on the Org would be arrested under suspicion of terrorism :P

And it's really difficult finding thousands of men with rifles these days, believe me, I've tried.

If you're gonna take over the world you'll have to do it sneaky like, step by step. I suggest you try and take over somewhere like Madagascar first. Leave France and the rest for later.

As for monarchists? I'm pretty sure they will be in as rebellions if you mis-manage your Republic and screw over the upper class tax-wise.

Also, by the by, if anyone here at the Org ever fancies a crack at world domination then I volunteer my services as a General and also a public relations guy. Every dictator needs to look good for the plebs

[Fisherking]

For this era we may be missing the most important unit of all and no one has said a word!
No one cam march or fight without the “Regimental Band”. Where are the pipers and drummers? Where are the fifes and glockenspiels!

Without them no one is going to stay in step! Who sounds the charge or withdraw! This just won’t work without them. They are at least as important as the General, maybe more so!

[Sir Beane]

For this era we may be missing the most important unit of all and no one has said a word!
No one cam march or fight without the “Regimental Band”. Where are the pipers and drummers? Where are the fifes and glockenspiels!

Without them no one is going to stay in step! Who sounds the charge or withdraw! This just won’t work without them. They are at least as important as the General, maybe more so!

From what CA have said it looks like musicians will actually be in the game! They have confirmed pipes and drummers, no word yet on trumpeters, fifes, glockenspiels, keyboards, saxophones and the all important lead electric guitar though.

My armies will consist of nothing but musical units. We shall play a rhumba of conquest throughout the world!

[Fisherking]

Since exploding ammunition and rocket artillery tend to set fires, do you think this will be a part of the game?

Will the enemy be able to set fires deliberately…or will you? It isn’t as though it wasn’t done…

More curiosity than speculation…



Put that in your flaming pipe and smoke it!

[Megas Methuselah]

Enemies of my people, hear my bagpipes and woe!

[Sheogorath]

Enemies of my people, hear my bagpipes and woe!

And follow up with a good ol' highland charge!

In the right era, this time ;)

[Megas Methuselah]

I wonder if the Native American factions will actually get a varied unit roster other than 3 types of troops, namely archers, musketeers, and a melee unit? By bringing this into the conversation, we could also ask the same of all minor factions: although many of their units may well be generic, will they at least be numerically varied?

Playing a faction with only 3-4 different unit types will be immensely unsatisfying...

[_Pontifex_]

Bear cavalry. Excellent idea.

I think it would be interesting to see that as a cheat just like the oliphaunts in RTW. :D

I do hope it will be more than the boring old volleys though. I do plan on a Picket's charge-esque run every now and then, just to keep things spicy. Of course, dragoons will be employed as well. :P

[Sir Beane]

I wonder if the Native American factions will actually get a varied unit roster other than 3 types of troops, namely archers, musketeers, and a melee unit? By bringing this into the conversation, we could also ask the same of all minor factions: although many of their units may well be generic, will they at least be numerically varied?

Playing a faction with only 3-4 different unit types will be immensely unsatisfying...

Each minor faction will probably get a mixed unit roster based on those factions geographically or politically similar to it. Expect Venice/Papal States/Florence to all have a similar set. Portugal will probably get Spanish units (unless they are both playable) /Saxony/Bavaria/Other German states will probably have a mixture od Sweden and Prussia, with maybe a little Austria thrown in. The Khanate of the Crimean will probably get Russia's units. Fez and Morocco and The Barbary States will probably be watered down Ottoman with maybe a few generic 'arabian' and 'camel' units thrown in.

Don't expect Native Americas to be much more varied than when the appeared in Kingdoms.

[Sheogorath]

On the subject of volleys, I think it would be great if we could see a difference in the firing methods of units.
I did notice that, in MTW2, gunpowder units with higher experience have a different firing method than unexperienced ones. In unexperienced units, the front rank fires, then walks back, while the second rank walks forward. In experienced ones, the front rank simply kneels and the rear rank fires while they reload...which increases your rate of fire quite a lot.

This actually does make sense, since firing by rank was something generally restricted to highly trained and disciplined units. Not something your average conscript fresh off the farm would do.

So, seeing something like...totally undisciplined fire after the first volley (which would be quite ragged) for fresh units, then nice, regular volleys for bronze units (going by the chevron system here) followed by free-fire, a slightly faster rate of fire for silver units, with no free-fire, and the ability to fire by rank for gold level units.

Just a rough idea, of course.

[Sir Beane]

On the subject of volleys, I think it would be great if we could see a difference in the firing methods of units.
I did notice that, in MTW2, gunpowder units with higher experience have a different firing method than unexperienced ones. In unexperienced units, the front rank fires, then walks back, while the second rank walks forward. In experienced ones, the front rank simply kneels and the rear rank fires while they reload...which increases your rate of fire quite a lot.

This actually does make sense, since firing by rank was something generally restricted to highly trained and disciplined units. Not something your average conscript fresh off the farm would do.

So, seeing something like...totally undisciplined fire after the first volley (which would be quite ragged) for fresh units, then nice, regular volleys for bronze units (going by the chevron system here) followed by free-fire, a slightly faster rate of fire for silver units, with no free-fire, and the ability to fire by rank for gold level units.

Just a rough idea, of course.

This will almost certainly be represented in the game by technology research. CA have already said as you get better tech you can research new formations and firing drills to help make your troops more efficient and faster shots.

It would be great if higher experience units were the only ones that could use certain drills though.