Great Heros! Geh!

[Fisherking]

No comment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7798497.stm

[naut]

Funny too, since he's Georgian and all.

Top Five so far:
Pyotr Stolypin, pre-Revolutionary statesman - 426,300
Alexander Nevsky, medieval warrior prince - 418,200
Alexander Pushkin, poet - 397,100 votes
Joseph Stalin, Soviet dictator - 397,000
Vladimir Lenin, Revolutionary leader - 342,400

Good list apart from Stalin.

[Fragony]

World War 2 was a crazy thing for the russians I can kinda understand this. Russians would have been much worse of under the germans.

[Kralizec]

Funny too, since he's Georgian and all.

Top Five so far:
Pyotr Stolypin, pre-Revolutionary statesman - 426,300
Alexander Nevsky, medieval warrior prince - 418,200
Alexander Pushkin, poet - 397,100 votes
Joseph Stalin, Soviet dictator - 397,000
Vladimir Lenin, Revolutionary leader - 342,400

Good list apart from Stalin.

Apart from Stalin and Lenin.

[JAG]

What the hell was wrong with Lenin? ... A great thinker and leader.

Also Stalin did some of the worst crimes commited by a leader, however he did save the Russian nation from destruction at the hands of the Nazi's. Churchill did some pretty horrendus acts, but we voted him #1 over here, for precisely the same reason. To think everyone who is voting for Stalin are sympathetic to his crimes, is ridiculous, maybe they just understand that he was a great Russian - and I don't think anyone can get away from that. Not to mention as the article states, no one involved in the show are hiding the crimes he commited.

[Fisherking]

What the hell was wrong with Lenin? ... A great thinker and leader.

Also Stalin did some of the worst crimes commited by a leader, however he did save the Russian nation from destruction at the hands of the Nazi's. Churchill did some pretty horrendus acts, but we voted him #1 over here, for precisely the same reason. To think everyone who is voting for Stalin are sympathetic to his crimes, is ridiculous, maybe they just understand that he was a great Russian - and I don't think anyone can get away from that. Not to mention as the article states, no one involved in the show are hiding the crimes he commited.

Yes you could be right!

Aside from being the greatest mass murderer in history, I am sure he could have been a pretty nice chap.

[JAG]

Yes you could be right!

Aside from being the greatest mass murderer in history, I am sure he could have been a pretty nice chap.

[rasoforos]

Aside from being the greatest mass murderer in history, I am sure he could have been a pretty nice chap.

He saved them from the Nazis. Many nations have murderous as heroes for the same reason.


The Devil you know is better than the Devil you don't.

I find it a bit strange that since you dont have to be ethnic-russian to be on the list, Trotsky doesnt get more votes than Lenin.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

What the hell was wrong with Lenin? ... A great thinker and leader.

And responsible for what, three and a half million deaths?

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...seum/his1g.htm

Also Stalin did some of the worst crimes commited by a leader, however he did save the Russian nation from destruction at the hands of the Nazi's.

So it would've been justified to vote for Hitler since/if he "saved" Germany from the communists?

I don't think so.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

He saved them from the Nazis. Many nations have murderous as heroes for the same reason.

Did he save them where someone else wouldn't have?

[Kralizec]

What the hell was wrong with Lenin? ... A great thinker and leader.

He put himself in power with a putsch, executed not only the tzar but also all his children and installed a bureaucratic dictatorship that ended up killing dozens of millions. I consider these to be bad things.

Also Stalin did some of the worst crimes commited by a leader, however he did save the Russian nation from destruction at the hands of the Nazi's. Churchill did some pretty horrendus acts, but we voted him #1 over here, for precisely the same reason. To think everyone who is voting for Stalin are sympathetic to his crimes, is ridiculous, maybe they just understand that he was a great Russian - and I don't think anyone can get away from that. Not to mention as the article states, no one involved in the show are hiding the crimes he commited.

Churchill might have not been the most enlightened figure domestically, but comparing him to Stalin is a "bit" much.

He contributed absolutely nothing personally to the nazis' defeat. His purges of the army's officers, his slow reaction to the German invasion and his policies in general made the Soviet Union a very easy target initially and if he had been any more incompetent, it surely would have collapsed.

[rasoforos]

So it would've been justified to vote for Hitler since/if he "saved" Germany from the communists?

I don't think so.

Err...hmm....err...Hitler kind of lost :P

I m not saying its justified I am saying it makes sense (in the way mass human psychology makes sense)

[Kralizec]

Come to think of it, I believe the Portugese once elected Salazar (a quasi-fascist dictator) as their greatest countryman. The Dutch picked Pim Fortuyn, not a dictator but a populist politician akin to Berlusconi who was murdered before "his" election. And looking through the web, I found out that in the UK princess Diana was rated at #3, well ahead of Shakespeare, Fleming and generally everyone else who did matter.

Sigh...

[CountArach]

I'm not surprised by this. Stalin put in place many great social welfare programs and healthcare - things that would later serve as the basis for the modern Welfare State. These, unsurprisingly, gave him imense popularity amongst the working class - many of whom form teh new middle class of Russia. These people are now the ones voting in this poll.

[rory_20_uk]

Although WW2 did help, Stalin was a veteran at killing his own peoples years before it started. And during the war, his acts of burning all crops whilst from the most dispassionate standpoint did stop his enemies eat, also ensured countrymen also starved.

His purges before the wars also ensured that all free thinking and able officers had been killed, ensuring that the army was in almost its worst possible shape for years when facing the onslaught.

His inept handling in 1941 almost lost the Soviets' the war as well as loosing masses of troops who then could not be fed as all the food was burnt.

Ironically he disinterred the concept of "Mother Russia" to help save the Soviet - a concept that few would fight for.

So, a genocidal Georgian is one of the best Russians...

[Kralizec]

Countarach, i'm not sure if you meant to offer an explanation or if you meant to raise another plus for the guy- if it's the latter, do a quick google search for "Ukrainian famine" and reconsider.

[Samurai Waki]

I'm sure one of Romania's greatest heroes was probably Vlad the Impaler. Savage, bloodthirsty man... but also a great tactician, and Wallachia prospered under his rule.

[CountArach]

Countarach, i'm not sure if you meant to offer an explanation or if you meant to raise another plus for the guy- if it's the latter, do a quick google search for "Ukrainian famine" and reconsider.

A little of both. I personally don't like Stalin for the reasons stated in this thread, but I do think that some of his social welfare programs were really well-intended and good.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Did he save them where someone else wouldn't have?

I sort of have that reaction to the idea that FDR/Truman lead us to victory in WW2. It was pretty cut-and-dry from the President's seat, I imagine...

[Furunculus]

And looking through the web, I found out that in the UK princess Diana was rated at #3, well ahead of Shakespeare, Fleming and generally everyone else who did matter.

Sigh...

just goes to show quite how stupid the voting public are.

[rory_20_uk]

A little of both. I personally don't like Stalin for the reasons stated in this thread, but I do think that some of his social welfare programs were really well-intended and good.

Mainly for the many reasons mentioned in this thread, and probably thousands of others I can not imagine that Stalin did anything that was for the good of anyone but himself.

[Husar]

I've always thought Hitler was the greatest martyr for he tried to save us from the evil communist jews and the evil capitalist jews until his unfortunate death. It's just too bad that the germans of his time failed him miserably and he had to take the logical consequences and deprive them of their great leader.
His struggle for the german people and his restlessness in trying to achieve this most noble of goals shall be remembered by those who now suffer under the capitalist crisis.
And by the way, he had to kill a few dissenters left and right who tried to spoil the greater good for everyone else but don't let that get in the way of his great achievements and his noble intentions.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Come on, you can spin everyone into a hero if you use enough relativism...

[rory_20_uk]

On a slightly related note, I do think that the UK should never have taken part in WW2 in Europe. There was no winner as either Hitler or Stalin would emerge victorious. Best remain neutral like Spain, Sweden and Switzerland and fight mainly in the Middle East.

[Banquo's Ghost]

just goes to show quite how stupid the voting public are.

Not stupid - uneducated.

It suits governments of modern democracies to minimise the education of their citizens whilst manipulating the information to which they do have access. Thus, government by sound bite and celebrity culture becomes ever more possible, and a populace untrained in debate and thought easily confused to the point of apathy.

Putin's nurturing of the myth of Stalin is merely a few steps along the road from what already occurs in much of the West. A dumb, blonde clothes horse is as effective a "hero" for the consumerist UK as the hard, ruthless, end-justifies-the-means "hero" is for the KGB-led Russia.

Education is perhaps the most important right of all, after the right to life. Yet how far down government's budget priorities - far below war, bankers, and "security" - do we see it every year?

Ironically, Soviet Russia had a world-leading education system, the recipients of which were repressed from exploiting. Now the citizenry has some kind of democracy, the state education system has been left to rot into a pitiful condition.

Perhaps this is the natural end-state of liberal democracy. By definition, government seeks to govern, and rarely recognises the concept of limits to its power.

[Fisherking]

Not stupid - uneducated.

It suits governments of modern democracies to minimise the education of their citizens whilst manipulating the information they to which they do have access. Thus, government by sound bite and celebrity culture becomes ever more possible, and a populace untrained in debate and thought easily confused to the point of apathy.

Putin's nurturing of the myth of Stalin is merely a few steps along the road from what already occurs in much of the West. A dumb, blonde clothes horse is as effective a "hero" for the consumerist UK as the hard, ruthless, end-justifies-the-means "hero" is for the KGB-led Russia.

Education is perhaps the most important right of all, after the right to life. Yet how far down government's budget priorities - far below war, bankers, and "security" - do we see it every year?

Ironically, Soviet Russia had a world-leading education system, the recipients of which were repressed from exploiting. Now the citizenry has some kind of democracy, the state education system has been left to rot into a pitiful condition.

Perhaps this is the natural end-state of liberal democracy. By definition, government seeks to govern, and rarely recognises the concept of limits to its power.

Oh! That was so, so good and TRUE!!!

[HoreTore]

Russian nationalists, as nationalists everywhere, love their strongman. As nationalism is big in russia nowadays, it's hardly surprising that a strongman(Stalin) is on such a list.

Stalin made Russia great on the international scene, fought back an invasion and won a war. Of course a nationalist is going to love that.

This ties in nicely with their recent love for the last tzar, as much a murdering scumbag as any other monarch/despot, which they've now turned into a saint, and made his very justified execution a "war-crime"...

It would surprise me if they don't end up as yet another dictatorship soon. They've done monarchy and communism, I wonder what's next? Religious fascism, perhaps?

[CrossLOPER]

It would surprise me if they don't end up as yet another dictatorship soon. They've done monarchy and communism, I wonder what's next? Religious fascism, perhaps?

We're thinking about electing actual rats.

Also, as much as I agree with most of the people here, the article "sounds" very paranoid. "Stalin's profile on the poll's website does not shy away from his crimes" would be much more fitting if a picture like this had been used:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Vladimir]

Really; who else do these people have to choose from? Stop looking for the best person and realize the least worst wins.

[InsaneApache]

Not stupid - uneducated.

It suits governments of modern democracies to minimise the education of their citizens whilst manipulating the information they to which they do have access. Thus, government by sound bite and celebrity culture becomes ever more possible, and a populace untrained in debate and thought easily confused to the point of apathy.

Putin's nurturing of the myth of Stalin is merely a few steps along the road from what already occurs in much of the West. A dumb, blonde clothes horse is as effective a "hero" for the consumerist UK as the hard, ruthless, end-justifies-the-means "hero" is for the KGB-led Russia.

Education is perhaps the most important right of all, after the right to life. Yet how far down government's budget priorities - far below war, bankers, and "security" - do we see it every year?

Ironically, Soviet Russia had a world-leading education system, the recipients of which were repressed from exploiting. Now the citizenry has some kind of democracy, the state education system has been left to rot into a pitiful condition.

Perhaps this is the natural end-state of liberal democracy. By definition, government seeks to govern, and rarely recognises the concept of limits to its power.

Another nail hit squarely on it's head. Great post. I'm utterly appalled at the lack of education the young 'uns get these days. In fact it's bordering on criminal. The best bit is that the government is touting the rise in GCSE results as a vindication of it's education policies, when in fact what in reality is happening is that the pupils are acheiving even more worthless pieces of paper.

When 20-25% of school leavers are functionally illiterate and innumerate it should be a badge of shame, not celebration.

Anyway, not wanting to hi-jack the thread, I'll take JAGs advice and shut up.

[Banquo's Ghost]

When 20-25% of school leavers are functionally illiterate ...

Including myself, it appears.