Heterogenes = Outsiders?

**bovi** · 12-30-2008, 12:57

Influenced by his own charisma and relationship with his father (if he is an outsider), in general Heterogenes have 35-95% chance of being outsiders. Racism and contempt for the different are not new concepts. Of course, if you are bothered by having so many outsiders in positions of power, you as a player have the ability to reinforce this segregation and distrust of the different by denying outsiders these positions.

**Subotan** · 12-30-2008, 15:38

Originally Posted by bovi

Influenced by his own charisma and relationship with his father (if he is an outsider), in general Heterogenes have 35-95% chance of being outsiders. Racism and contempt for the different are not new concepts. Of course, if you are bothered by having so many outsiders in positions of power, you as a player have the ability to reinforce this segregation and distrust of the different by denying outsiders these positions.

Awesome way of putting that. Can generals lose their outsiderness?
Edit: Apparently my Firefox spell checker recognises "Outsiderness" as a word, even though I've never heard it before.

**bovi** · 12-30-2008, 15:45

No, there is no way to lose this. Possibly there should be, for instance if he gets a very prominent position or does something remarkable in battle. But some people will always hold his origin against him, and he'll typically get positive influence traits in these cases, so I think it's okay.

**LordCurlyton** · 12-30-2008, 19:32

Even though the starting AS characters are Heterogenes? And seeing as ts a 100% chance to date, it hardly seems fair. Again, I go by the in-game text and the fact that never, ever, at any other time in any campaign have I gotten a FM with the Outsider trait unless it was a bribed enemy general. I mean, if they are going to be automatically saddled with a -1 influence penalty why not just put that into the ethnicity and not a separate trait. And if they get a -1 then shouldn't all the various non-Hellene ethnicities have worse, much like an Aigyptian ethnicity in the Ptolemaics gets a -2? As far as I am concerned, my point is still valid.

**Subotan** · 12-30-2008, 21:17

Originally Posted by bovi

No, there is no way to lose this. Possibly there should be, for instance if he gets a very prominent position or does something remarkable in battle. But some people will always hold his origin against him, and he'll typically get positive influence traits in these cases, so I think it's okay.

No, I agree with you. I was just wondering, that's all.

Originally Posted by LordCurlyton

Even though the starting AS characters are Heterogenes? And seeing as ts a 100% chance to date, it hardly seems fair. Again, I go by the in-game text and the fact that never, ever, at any other time in any campaign have I gotten a FM with the Outsider trait unless it was a bribed enemy general. I mean, if they are going to be automatically saddled with a -1 influence penalty why not just put that into the ethnicity and not a separate trait. And if they get a -1 then shouldn't all the various non-Hellene ethnicities have worse, much like an Aigyptian ethnicity in the Ptolemaics gets a -2? As far as I am concerned, my point is still valid.

I think Heterogenes should get -1, and that similar conditions be placed on all factions, e.g. Hellenes with the Qarthadasti.

**Aemilius Paulus** · 12-30-2008, 23:29

Originally Posted by Subotan

I think Heterogenes should get -1, and that similar conditions be placed on all factions, e.g. Hellenes with the Qarthadasti.

The Qarthadastim already have the -1 Influence Outsider trait if that is what you mean.

**Subotan** · 12-30-2008, 23:56

No, I mean that when playing as the Qarthadesti, if you have a Hellenic family member, they should recieve -1/2 influence, and that similar standards should be applied to every faction.