CVG preview & impressions

[Martok]

This article is probably a must-read for all of us interested in ETW. In addition to revealing a fair bit of new information, it also gives an idea of how the game actually plays.

Perhaps even more importantly is the perspective from which the article is written. The author appears to be a Total War veteran, and is quite obviously skeptical as a result of his experiences with Medieval 2. Fellow cynics like myself would probably benefit from checking it out.

[gollum]

... muskets featured in Medieval II, they were so wayward as to verge on useless.

Excuse me? Does he know what M2TW mp players think about how powerful guns are in the late era?

He s a veteran alright, just not a total war one. Judging from the style i d say he s a veteran reviewer; the type of hired hand that can make the description of a tactical battle in an RPS game more mezmerising than a love scene from Lady Chatterly s lover.

His *impressions* seem suspiciously similar to press releases and promo-videos to me, word for word in parts.

One of the best ways of needling the enemy is to use a new unit called the Gentleman. This loveable rogue can be sent into enemy territory to duel opposition commanders or assassinate dignitaries, allowing high rankers to be eliminated without the need for battlefield confrontation. Wipe out a number of a faction's generals and they'll declare war. The Gentleman also has several other key skills. Ensconce him in an enemy's university and he'll steal their research, or if he's placed in one of yours, speed your discovery of new technologies.

I guess his name is Bond. James Bond.

The campaign can be played without fighting

CA is claiming this since MTW, and back then i couldnt figure out why, very few people were playing the SP part with autoresolve - at least now the mp campaigns give CA a valid reason to prepare for this. Another spreading out of resources amidst an ever increasing scope... hmmm i wonder in what that may result

Thanks for the link.

!it burnsus!

[Oleander Ardens]

I liked the preview, it seemed rather even-handed. Good info, I especially liked the ability to raid settlements of the enemy when his forces are too weak to attack me in the field of honor, while being to strong to overcome when defending the walls of the city.

[Sir Beane]

That was an interesting and well written preview. I especially liked the bit about being able to completely avoid conflict. I wonder if there will be a way to achieve a peaceful victory this time around?

It would be nice if there were diplomatic or social influence victory conditions, like those in Galactic Civilizations.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Sir Beane, from what I can tell, if you can get the most Prestige points without fighting anyone, then you could theoretically have a peaceful victory. Technology is one way to get those, making money might be another. I don't know if there are other ways though.

[Sir Beane]

Sir Beane, from what I can tell, if you can get the most Prestige points without fighting anyone, then you could theoretically have a peaceful victory. Technology is one way to get those, making money might be another. I don't know if there are other ways though.

Hopefully other ways will include building up infrastructure and developing your lands. I would also hope that good diplomatic relations would help as well.

[sassbarman]

One thing that concerns me though is the bit about the well placed shot to the enemy generals head causing the entire army to instantly rout. We all know how easy it has been to simply kill the ai's general or captain to achieve a vcitory. now with the predominance of ranged units is this going to become even easier.
Personnally i was hoping ca would abstract generals on the battlefield this time around since they would rarely become involved in hands on combat in this era.

[Megas Methuselah]

@ gollum:

Yeah, I don't know what he was talking about. Muskets in M2TW are very effective, especially when you take away the fire_by_rank attribute in the EDU and form them in a 2-man-deep line, similar to the linear formations expected to be used in ETW.

One thing that concerns me though is the bit about the well placed shot to the enemy generals head causing the entire army to instantly rout. We all know how easy it has been to simply kill the ai's general or captain to achieve a vcitory. now with the predominance of ranged units is this going to become even easier.
Personnally i was hoping ca would abstract generals on the battlefield this time around since they would rarely become involved in hands on combat in this era.

Yeah, this has been confirmed in a previous preview. Generals will rarely, if ever, participate in a battle and will mostly hang about in the rear lines encouraging the soldiers at opportune moments. I expect to see Generals live long, full lives. Moreover, I wonder if they'll be capturable and ransomable, or perhaps they might be able to surrender and return home in honour/disgrace.

I wonder if there will be a way to achieve a peaceful victory this time around?

You coward!

[Sir Beane]

You coward!

I say! Steady on old chap. Just because one makes enquiries as to the feasability of a peaceful resolution to conflict does not mean one becomes fearful of battle!

Why just thinking about the cry of the charge and the thunder of cannon, the screams of the fighters, the blood on the ground... bodies in heaps, the cries of the dying.... I feel feint, need to lie down...



Peacful would be nice though, just to see a little variety in the enemies goals. If some factions were imperialistic and warlike, some were aiming to makes piles of money, some wanted social and technological revolution, and some just want to be friends it would make the campaign map a much mor einteresting and varied place.

[Martok]

One thing that concerns me though is the bit about the well placed shot to the enemy generals head causing the entire army to instantly rout. We all know how easy it has been to simply kill the ai's general or captain to achieve a vcitory. now with the predominance of ranged units is this going to become even easier.

I'll admit that concerned me a bit as well. I hope the enemy commander was simply killed by a lucky shot, and that we won't see AI generals dropping like flies as we have in previous TW titles.

Peacful would be nice though, just to see a little variety in the enemies goals. If some factions were imperialistic and warlike, some were aiming to makes piles of money, some wanted social and technological revolution, and some just want to be friends it would make the campaign map a much mor einteresting and varied place.

Seconded. While I certainly don't intend to shirk a fight, I really hope that not all factions will be warmongers either.

[Lorenzo_H]

@ gollum:

Yeah, I don't know what he was talking about. Muskets in M2TW are very effective, especially when you take away the fire_by_rank attribute in the EDU and form them in a 2-man-deep line, similar to the linear formations expected to be used in ETW.

I here understood the previewer to be talking about cannons more than muskets. In my limited M2TW experience, cannons can't hit an elephant at 10 meters, let alone target a 2 man deep rank at 3000 meters.

From what I can see, we all want more realism over the previous emphasis of Total War games - which was basically just War. I too would like to see more peaceful ways of winning etc, and also AI that doesn't attack you for no reason. I'm a bit of a history buff, especially for 18th - 19th Century, and I kind of want historical accuracy to a certain extent.

Great preview, ta for the link.

[Fondor_Yards]

Serpentine's had/have no problem hitting infantry.

Hmm even though he says the AI was better, nothing from his comments made it look that way. Let people a not scripted Bunker Hill already CA so we can see the real AI!

[Sir Beane]

While serpentines may be accurate in general the other gunpowder artillery units in Med 2 are not. They should hopefully be significantly more accurate and powerful in Empire.

I noticed the writer mentioned that each volley killed ten or twenty men. That's quite a high casualty rate, and it makes me think unit sizes must have increased to be able to soak up that kind of damage.

If not battles are going to be very short and very bloody.

[Spino]

Yeah, mentioning the AI and how it performs in a scripted battle is pretty much useless. Hopefully some journalist worth his/her salt will ask CA if they can create a random battle and then pay close attention to how the AI handles itself.

[Megas Methuselah]

I noticed the writer mentioned that each volley killed ten or twenty men. That's quite a high casualty rate, and it makes me think unit sizes must have incrased to be able to soak up that kind of damage.

If not battles are going to be very short and very bloody.

[gollum]

Originally posted by Methuselah
Yeah, I don't know what he was talking about. Muskets in M2TW are very effective, especially when you take away the fire_by_rank attribute in the EDU and form them in a 2-man-deep line, similar to the linear formations expected to be used in ETW.

I know what he is talking about - he's been using the TW_PREVIEW_TEMPLATE_1

They always have to tell us for each and every title how much different things will be now since the era/setting etc are different- depite the fact that all elements TW gameplay (meleestringlightlyarmoured/meleeweakwellarmoured/shooterbow/shootercrossbows/grenades/guns/shootersmountedbows/meleecavalryfastandweak/meleecavalrystrongandslow) in land battles were coded in since STW.

Then, they describe their test play battle, where they always do a "mistake" by "underestimating the AI" or because they "played with previous experience" and they get "punished". That's to tell us how great and hard the game now is, as if they could from one battle. In M2TW it was the AI using the terrain, the reviewers were chearing because the Ai was putting spears in the wood as a measure against Knights - something that was supposedly an improvement, depsite the fact that the AI was doing it in M1TW and STW only to "forget it" in RTW. Guess what though, none of the 99.9999% score reviews for RTW mentioned it. They were too busy zooming in to watch the graphics i guess.

They proceed to describe the battle with folklore detail as in this case to get appetites soaring.

Then, they list all the info already already released in full, without missing a single bit of it, so youthink that "the article has great info" - there isnt a single piece of info that he mentiones that wasnt included in the promovideos or press releases. Its just the maxim "la repetition est le commencement d'etude" -freely translated - repeating is the start of learning. That's their job.

With all due respect to Martok, i just cant see the point where he is critical of M2. He only says that he'll keep full opinion until the review proper since its too early and that's it.

And by the way cannoins in M2TW can hitanything with great precision with a bit of simple, harmless home modding - all you need to do is change a number in a txt file. What i'm trying to say is that CA does not introduce things out of the blue too often - it usually works on things for a while, as it should. Artillery has been worked in the TW since M1TW that was introduced in. What you'll see in Empire wont be coming from outter space, in all probablity, it'll be the same old with better accuracy and lethality.

!it burnsus!

[Sir Beane]

I know what he is talking about - he's been using the TW_PREVIEW_TEMPLATE_1

They always have to tell us for each and every title how much different things will be now since the era/setting etc are different- depite the fact that all elements TW gameplay (meleestringlightlyarmoured/meleeweakwellarmoured/shooterbow/shootercrossbows/grenades/guns/shootersmountedbows/meleecavalryfastandweak/meleecavalrystrongandslow) in land battles were coded in since STW.

Then, they describe their test play battle, where they always do a "mistake" by "underestimating the AI" or because they "played with previous experience" and they get "punished". That's to tell us how great and hard the game now is, as if they could from one battle. In M2TW it was the AI using the terrain, the reviewers were chearing because the Ai was putting spears in the wood as a measure against Knights - something that was supposedly an improvement, depsite the fact that the AI was doing it in M1TW and STW only to "forget it" in RTW. Guess what though, none of the 99.9999% score reviews for RTW mentioned it. They were too busy zooming in to watch the graphics i guess.

They proceed to describe the battle with folklore detail as in this case to get appetites soaring.

Then, they list all the info already already released in full, without missing a single bit of it, so youthink that "the article has great info" - there isnt a single piece of info that he mentiones that wasnt included in the promovideos or press releases. Its just the maxim "la repetition est le commencement d'etude" -freely translated - repeating is the start of learning. That's their job.

With all due respect to Martok, i just cant see the point where he is critical of M2. He only says that he'll keep full opinion until the review proper since its too early and that's it.

And by the way cannoins in M2TW can hitanything with great precision with a bit of simple, harmless home modding - all you need to do is change a number in a txt file. What i'm trying to say is that CA does not introduce things out of the blue too often - it usually works on things for a while, as it should. Artillery has been worked in the TW since M1TW that was introduced in. What you'll see in Empire wont be coming from outter space, in all probablity, it'll be the same old with better accuracy and lethality.

!it burnsus!

You have pretty much nailed the exact formula every preview has followed yet! Well done sir. Now you point it out it is fairly obvious that most writers have followed a very standard format.

To truly get the measure of the game we wil have to wait until wither ourselves or fellow Orgahs have got our hands on it. We aren't being paid to say good things, so we can be brutally honest.

[gollum]

To truly get the measure of the game we wil have to wait until wither ourselves or fellow Orgahs have got our hands on it.

Very true.

We aren't being paid to say good things, so we can be brutally honest.

At least to ourselves - not all orahs agree on everything - for example when M2TW came out Froggbeastegg (used here as an example due to her fame) found it to her taste and an improvement over RTW. With all due respect to Froggbeastegg i found it not to my taste and in many ways worse then RTW. Opinions vary.

!it burnsus!

[Tomisama]

Interesting article, inspiring (albeit a professional piece), thanks for the link


To me, “the pudding” (proof of value) of a Total War game is in multiplayer team-play.

Can the particular issue in the series support the maximum number of players claimed?

Can it sustain the interest of the player-ship long enough to build a solid community of Clans dedicated to the title?

My perspective is ordered by what I perceive to be as the most exciting aspect of Total War gamming, the “big game”. This is ideally a four player Clan (organized and practiced) team, versus another four player Clan (organized and practiced) team. With the whole thing raised to a fever pitch a multi Clan, Seasonal playoff competition.

These ultimate bouts are in my estimation the “Olympics” of the Total War world. It simply does not get any better than this...

I am excited about all of the aspects to be enjoyed in Empire, but will be basically holding my breath (figuratively) to see if we can take it to the ultimate level of computer wargaming, the team competitions

[Sir Beane]

Interesting article, inspiring (albeit a professional piece), thanks for the link


To me, “the pudding” (proof of value) of a Total War game is in multiplayer team-play.

Can the particular issue in the series support the maximum number of players claimed?

Can it sustain the interest of the player-ship long enough to build a solid community of Clans dedicated to the title?

My perspective is ordered by what I perceive to be as the most exciting aspect of Total War gamming, the “big game”. This is ideally a four player Clan (organized and practiced) team, versus another four player Clan (organized and practiced) team. With the whole thing raised to a fever pitch a multi Clan, Seasonal playoff competition.

These ultimate bouts are in my estimation the “Olympics” of the Total War world. It simply does not get any better than this...

I am excited about all of the aspects to be enjoyed in Empire, but will be basically holding my breath (figuratively) to see if we can take it to the ultimate level of computer wargaming, the team competitions

If CA are to be believed then this game will have the best multiplayer yet. A multiplayer campaign, new multiplayer modes, a better multiplayer match-finder, a whole new challenge with naval battles.

If they deliver on all they have promised then Empirewill be superb in multiplayer. Maybe even enough to tempt me into a clan or tournament.

[Slammer]

From what i read he was firing 500 men to get that 10 to 20 kills if so that is only 2 percent hits .

[IsItStillThere]

From what i read he was firing 500 men to get that 10 to 20 kills if so that is only 2 percent hits .

I imagine this rate will vary greatly depending on the distance between the two units.

[Oleander Ardens]

I too hope that E:TW will be a great game to play online. Even a good AI goes only so far....

[gollum]

If CA are to be believed then this game will have the best multiplayer yet. A multiplayer campaign, new multiplayer modes, a better multiplayer match-finder, a whole new challenge with naval battles.

CA is been promising this for every title - and even though the SP part of the game improved in various points (not in all), the mp part went from bad to worse. With all due respect to CA, as far as credibility towards the mp player goes, they dont exactly deserve a price.

In other words, that *if* is a big one.

!it burnsus!

[Tomisama]

You know, after Rome I wasn’t going to buy again…

I did anyway, and swore I wasn’t ever going to buy again…

I have already preordered…

And you know why?

From Shogun, through all of the releases, expansions, revisions, with all of the delays and disappointments, one fact keeps me coming back.
That is; in spite of all of the irritation and exasperation, with all things considered, Total War games are the best games on the planet, bar none!

As failed and feeble as they may wheel out, in the end either by the developers corrections or community mod resurrection, they all shine.
Each a monument along the path in the pursuit of the perfect game that will probably never come, but we will get closer every time

[Sir Beane]

You know, after Rome I wasn’t going to buy again…

I did anyway, and swore I wasn’t ever going to buy again…

I have already preordered…

And you know why?

From Shogun, through all of the releases, expansions, revisions, with all of the delays and disappointments, one fact keeps me coming back.
That is; in spite of all of the irritation and exasperation, with all things considered, Total War games are the best games on the planet, bar none!

As failed and feeble as they may wheel out, in the end either by the developers corrections or community mod resurrection, they all shine.
Each a monument along the path in the pursuit of the perfect game that will probably never come, but we will get closer every time

Here here! It's great to see someone else who doesnt relentlessly bash CA for every little thing.

A toast to Total War and the wonderful people who make it for us!

[ConnMon]

Not to ruin the moment, but I wanted to add in my 2 cents.

Ahem I thought the article was pretty good in its presentation of information, but it was basically all stuff we knew before (as stated above). At least he had played a total war game before, and wasnt some random reviewer who slavishly worships disney movie game remakes or something ridiculous. Maybe the reason he hated gunpowder units so much was because he played as Scotland or something through gunpower age. It's a lonely feeling, I tell you.

[gollum]

A toast to Tomisama for being such a wonderful fellow and a keystone for the TW mp community all these years - not for the sales, not for the dough, not for the booze, not for the babes or the reviews - but for the sheer hell of it.

Companionship, honour and dedication = Tomisama.



!it burnsus!

[Sir Beane]

A toast to Tomisama for being such a wonderful fellow and a keystone for the TW mp community all these years - not for the sales, not for the dough, not for the booze, not for the babes or the reviews - but for the sheer hell of it.

Companionship, honour and dedication = Tomisama.



!it burnsus!

Cheers! To Tomisama!

[SpencerH]

One of the best ways of needling the enemy is to use a new unit called the Gentleman. This loveable rogue can be sent into enemy territory to duel opposition commanders or assassinate dignitaries, allowing high rankers to be eliminated without the need for battlefield confrontation. Wipe out a number of a faction's generals and they'll declare war. The Gentleman also has several other key skills. Ensconce him in an enemy's university and he'll steal their research, or if he's placed in one of yours, speed your discovery of new technologies.

I was never happy with the power of assassins in previous games and 'the gentlemen' looks even worse. Can anyone name a high ranking general who was killed in a duel by a foreigner? How about one who was assassinated while with his army? Spies are fine, assassins are bogus (especially) in this time period.