Greatest Badboy People and Nations per Century

[Jolt]

Major comment on this from me is that its a very euro-centric list.

Anyway, would like to suggest that Athenian Democracry be taken off the list as in the large scale of things that was a very minor empire over a handful of Greek speaking coastal villages. The Persian (Achaemenids) meanwhile managed quite a bit of expansion in that century by bringing some dependent states directly under their rule and re-established control over many territories lost to rebellions.



Pope Urban II is surely the real bad boy of the 11th century

Some other debatable alternatives

Simon Bolivar / Shaka Zulu - 19th century
Various Norman invasions - 11th century
Aztecs killed a lot of people in 16th century, Spain just sneezed in the wrong places
Maybe consider replacing Hitler with Stalin (or even Mao?) for 20th century as he has more souls trailing in his wake.

I'll reply to everyone tomorrow, anyways, just this message.

True, it is very Euro-centric, even I noticed that, although I made the list using mostly my knowledge, which is obviously fallible (As with the example of the Peter of Russia.)

I was undecisive over the Athenian Democracy and the Persian Empire, but as I compared, I decided to put the Athenians in, as they built an empire, while the Persians basically centralized or crushed rebellions (Which doesn't add badboy). But looking over the general state of things in that Century, most history I know revolved around Greece, thus why the Athenians are in.

Anyways, there is a misconception of badboy with your suggestions. Badboy isn't about how many people were killed. It's about the acquisition of more power through forceful conflicts with foreign entities, which innevitably breaches the prior equilibrium of powers. Shaka Zulu pales in comparison with many of the people forwarded for that century. Simon Bolivar is another case, and we'll compare him with the other notorious people for the badboy of the 19th Century later.
I considered putting the Normans in, but since they didn't really were a state of any kind, I passed them over. Spain (And later with the addition of Portugal), most notably by Carlos V and Filipe II far and wide surpasses the Aztec Empire in terms of wars and badboy acquired. Stalin's badboy (Once again the badboy concept) can't be compared to Hitler, who did annex and occupy several countries, started a World War, and would have brought Germany more wars and power in case he had won it. Stalin didn't surpass Hitler, nor Mao who only lead in a couple of small wars to further his own power.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Stalin's badboy (Once again the badboy concept) can't be compared to Hitler, who did annex and occupy several countries, started a World War, and would have brought Germany more wars and power in case he had won it. Stalin didn't surpass Hitler, nor Mao who only lead in a couple of small wars to further his own power.

On the other hand, Stalin did brutally oppress and control many Eastern European states, which has to count for some badboy points.

[Sarmatian]

Badboy points from Paradox games is difficult to understand for those who never played them. It is a "gamey" feature but it is also very realistic. It doesn't equate to amount of territory taken or to how much of a bad guy certain ruler was, but how much was the existing balance of power upset.

It's not about human rights, concentration camps, genocides etc... For example, Hitler and Nazi Germany aren't on the list because of the genocide, they're there because they've upset the balance of power by conquering numerous countries. By that concept. conquests of Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Louis XIV or Hitler are exactly the same. Their "other" policies are not of an issue, just their conquests and how much did they upset the existing balance of power

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

It's not about human rights, concentration camps, genocides etc... For example, Hitler and Nazi Germany aren't on the list because of the genocide, they're there because they've upset the balance of power by conquering numerous countries. By that concept. conquests of Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Louis XIV or Hitler are exactly the same. Their "other" policies are not of an issue, just their conquests and how much did they upset the existing balance of power

If this was addressed at me, I'm aware. I was referring to the fact that the Soviet control of Eastern Europe could be called a de facto annexation.

[Mooks]

I think Crochane deserves to be on the list somewhere. He was pretty badass.