You Can't Win-Small Game [Concluded]

Originally Posted by Andres

Wait a minute. CountArach died last night.

Are you able to 1) kill and 2) protect each night, or can you do only one thing?

If so, who did you kill last night and why?

I've seen many mafiosi claim vigilante before. It's one of the most convenient role claims for scum.

Vote : YLC

Indeed it is, I was half tempted at one point or another to claim it in Golden Rule.

No, indeed, I did not protect CountArach except on the first night. I then killed boudica and Reenk Roink, and intended to kill you this night. So your assertion is correct, I may only protect or kill, not both.

Both of my kills were motivated by my own suspicions, gut feelings, nothing more. Last night, It was either you or Reenk Roink, and a coin flip decided it.

So, you're a vigilante on a killing spree based on "gut feelings"

And you're able to protect, but only CA and nobody else?

Yes, as a bodyguard - I would protect CA with my life. If I did not kill, that was what I was doing. So, since CA seemed to have gone inactive, I elected to remain active and begin killing.

Please, Andres, explain what I should have gone on? I see no clues to go on.

Hello everyone.

I will look over the thread, but for now:

Vote: Abstain

Because: Same reason as before. I don't think it's in my best interest to get involved.

Hey, fellows?

Why is no one even discussing Tiberius of the Drake?


EDIT: Nevermind, Tiberius is WOG bait.

Originally Posted by Quintus.JC

This is getting pretty critical....

Vote: YLC

Its gotta be either him or Andres, I can't see the other two being mafia. Tiberus is too inactive, and ATPG has been offline for the last couple of days, he can still sent in the order via e-mail, but knowing him he wouldn't blank out on the guild just to do this.

I want to hear some defence, you and Andres are all equally suspcious.

Yes, guys: I want to say it right here, right now:

I consider not being here at all to be a coward's tactic. I would not do that just for the sake of winning a game.

Whenever I am mafia, I talk and talk. If I win using such a tactic, dear god... I get bragging rights, don't I? I will not blank out on my favorite website just to win the game the WOG-bait way.

Sorry I haven't been more active, but whenever I am here, I am active, and it is in my best interests not to pick a side in this game, as I mentioned a few dozen times.

I mentioned I might be dropping out of mafia games in the future, due to the fact that me not being here and there still being murders eliminates me as a potential suspect in some games. This is not true in games where I can send in orders ahead of time, and if my partner(s) can kill in my place.

I admit, if I survive this game at all, I will be impressed by your faith in me after my past deviousness, and thank everyone for letting me live. Of course, having said that, I'm as good as dead, so... it's been nice knowing all of you!



I already said you could investigate me, and if necessary, lynch me. But I am saying it will be a waste of your time.

At some point, the lawman may end up deciding to kill me so that he can keep the other primary suspects alive. That's a shame, too. But, even as a neutral, I am willing to die for town.

There are clues, I sprinkle them in like tiny precious gems.



But I suppose you'd have to be a fan of Tom Waits to figure them out.

By the way, in keeping with my pro-town leanings no matter what role I have;

I am neutral, so keep that in mind. The amount of townies left does not include me, and the lawman wins if there is one townie and one neutral left.

Obviously it is not in his best interests to kill me. It may be in town's best interest at one point, so that town can play the odds, 1/3 instead of 1/4.

Alive
Quintus.JC
YLC
Andres
Tiberius of the Drake
ATPG

With me dead, that would make it 1/4 chance of catching the lawman. If/when he kills, that makes it 1/3 that you can catch him, and you will only have townies left. Just so you know.

If the lawman kills me, that affects the odds as well, but it does not work out in his best interests no matter what the odds are.

I am neutral though. I don't care at this point who wins, just doing my job.

Vote: Abstain SOLID

Originally Posted by YLC

Hmm...

Vote: Andres

I'm "Foot and a Half" George, and I had two functions in this game - protect CountArach, and to be able to Vig kill once per night. Lynch me if you want, however I'm not your man. In fact, do so -I was planning on killing Andres tonight - if it's you QJC, then you basically win, and my hat is off to you. However, if I die, then you can't win - there will still be too many players.

That's if your Mafia.

If you choose to vig kill Andres is it 100% certain chance of success, or is there any possibilty he might survive the attempt?

I'm starting to buy into YLC's story, Andres isn't scummy but YLC seems convincing. Right now I can think of a few possibilities the end will end... But anyway for now I will vote: Andres

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Yes, guys: I want to say it right here, right now:

I consider not being here at all to be a coward's tactic. I would not do that just for the sake of winning a game.

Whenever I am mafia, I talk and talk. If I win using such a tactic, dear god... I get bragging rights, don't I? I will not blank out on my favorite website just to win the game the WOG-bait way.

Knowing you has convinced me that you would not use such tactics for victory.

APTG's neutrality declaration is a big blow to town, Tiberus is WOG bait, without APTG and Tiberus its only gonna be just me, Andres and YLC, which means this could be the last voting round.

I already voted solid, so if I had any reason to change my mind and save my life, that window of opportunity has passed.

I have a theory as to who it is as well.

Originally Posted by Quintus.JC

I'm starting to buy into YLC's story, Andres isn't scummy but YLC seems convincing. Right now I can think of a few possibilities the end will end... But anyway for now I will vote: Andres

Oh come on now. If he's CA's bodyguard then why didn't he protect him the last few nights?

What a great bodyguard he is, letting his protégé die last night.

And on top of that the vigilante claim, the ideal cover for a mafioso.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I already voted solid, so if I had any reason to change my mind and save my life, that window of opportunity has passed.

I have a theory as to who it is as well.

You can of course tell us that theory if you wish.

Originally Posted by Andres

Oh come on now. If he's CA's bodyguard then why didn't he protect him the last few nights?

What a great bodyguard he is, letting his protégé die last night.

And on top of that the vigilante claim, the ideal cover for a mafioso.

To be honest I am relatively undecided at the moment. I had a nice plan as well; We could lynch Tiberus this round, making YLC the vig killer kill you (Andres) next night, and if the game still doesn't end then we'll lynch YLC in the final round. But now with APTG suddenly revealing his rouge aligance, the plan has all but evaporated into thin air.

Sometimes you have to go with gut feelings, if we lynched you and you turned out to be townie then I'm sorry, but now is the time to be decisive.

YLC also didn't have to reveal his vig/protector status if he didn't want to, telling people that he's actually a vigillante would make him seem suspcious and he had better alternatives to go with if he was mafia, I am beginning to think what YLC is saying is the truth.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I already voted solid, so if I had any reason to change my mind and save my life, that window of opportunity has passed.

I've never said you cannot change your vote if it is SOLID, only that you should vote that way if you're sure it won't change later.

It's a flag for me, not a carving in stone for you.

EDIT:

In addition, if when placing your vote, you know for sure it will not change, you can add the term SOLID. In the event everyone is content with their choices, this will let me know that I can end the day early. If you have already voted for someone, but would like to make it concrete: post previous vote:SOLID

I do see I used the term "concrete" in there. This was meant as the adjective form, not the noun. Sorry.

I.e. a concrete vote, as in real and tangible, as opposed to an abstract idea of how you're leaning.

Originally Posted by Quintus.JC

To be honest I am relatively undecided at the moment. I had a nice plan as well; We could lynch Tiberus this round, making YLC the vig killer kill you (Andres) next night, and if the game still doesn't end then we'll lynch YLC in the final round. But now with APTG suddenly revealing his rouge aligance, the plan has all but evaporated into thin air.

Sometimes you have to go with gut feelings, if we lynched you and you turned out to be townie then I'm sorry, but now is the time to be decisive.

YLC also didn't have to reveal his vig/protector status if he didn't want to, telling people that he's actually a vigillante would make him seem suspcious and he had better alternatives to go with if he was mafia, I am beginning to think what YLC is saying is the truth.

Vigilante is exactly what you'd want to claim as a mafioso. It makes you immune for investigation results --> "yes, I'm guilty because I killed, I'm a vigilante!"

Also, the bodyguard part doesn't add up; CA got killed last night. Protector+vigilante makes no sense at all.

No, he didn't have to reveal; but if he avoid the lynch this round, he'll be pretty much sure about winning this game.

The timing for his "reveal" is perfect to obtain victory.

Very well. I choose to change my vote.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: YLC

His reasoning given is that he's a vigilante. That's fine... but he's a confirmed killer.


QJC: Please look back at my posts. i revealed a long time ago I was neutral. From this error, I have to assume you aren't paying attention... which tells me you aren't that concerned about your life. It has to be YLC at this point. Obviously if the mafioso dies, I survive the game. So I have reasons for not being so neutral now.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

QJC: Please look back at my posts. i revealed a long time ago I was neutral. From this error, I have to assume you aren't paying attention... which tells me you aren't that concerned about your life. It has to be YLC at this point. Obviously if the mafioso dies, I survive the game. So I have reasons for not being so neutral now.

It seems that's the case

However its this post that really concerned me

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I am neutral, so keep that in mind. The amount of townies left does not include me, and the lawman wins if there is one townie and one neutral left.

I understand your concerns, QJC. I hate to use my record as evidence, but everyone else seems to, and so too shall I:

In every game, as mafia, as host, as townie, as neutral, I've done everything I can to help town win. It's frightening. Why do I do this?

So you'll put up with me. So you'll listen to me. So you might actually consider what I have to say. And my record is consistent. I am trying to help us win, right now. I've chosen my side, and I always side with town.

I do trust that you have the town in your better interest, besides YLC hasn't been cleared yet, and its perfectly logically to suspect him.

I personally would like an extention, right now I think there is 1 vote to YLC and 2 vote to Andres. So I'll Unvote: Andres right now, and hopfully we'll get more source on the extension to make up our minds.

I havent even checked, but I think both me and Andres voted YLC. Whoever has time can recheck the numbers.

Edit: I'm willing to do an extension. It's a good idea. If more evidence comes forward I may change my vote.

Andres did vote for YLC. Once again I've been sloppy, did have a lot of coursework to do recently...

I suggest you unvote YLC for now and wait for an extention, we can have more time to work out something then.

Unusual behavior from ATPG, too calm, no funny role playing or big involvement, hmmm

Get an extention and we could get some valuable time into this case.

Originally Posted by Andres

Vigilante is exactly what you'd want to claim as a mafioso. It makes you immune for investigation results --> "yes, I'm guilty because I killed, I'm a vigilante!"

Also, the bodyguard part doesn't add up; CA got killed last night. Protector+vigilante makes no sense at all.

No, he didn't have to reveal; but if he avoid the lynch this round, he'll be pretty much sure about winning this game.

The timing for his "reveal" is perfect to obtain victory.

It does not make you immune to investigation at all. Depending on the mechanics the host himself/herself set up, there could be several variations on how "guilt" is handled, or how detailed the investigations are.

Also, the bodyguard adds up perfectly (for the most part) - your simply ignoring the fact that I said that I could do one or the other. I choose to kill, instead of protecting an inactive townie - you would fault me for being proactive in this game?

And I also said I am the best bet for a lynch, unless we lynch Tiberius and something more comes up. However, I am sure you are mafia, since your willing to commit to this action already - if I were mafia, now would be the last time to try and throw suspicion on myself in the endgame. It is bad play, and goes against Game Theory.

If Yoyoma allows, I will show you all PM's from me to him.

Also, Yoyoma, please allow the extension as QJC requested.

Originally Posted by YLC

It does not make you immune to investigation at all. Depending on the mechanics the host himself/herself set up, there could be several variations on how "guilt" is handled, or how detailed the investigations are.

Also, the bodyguard adds up perfectly (for the most part) - your simply ignoring the fact that I said that I could do one or the other. I choose to kill, instead of protecting an inactive townie - you would fault me for being proactive in this game?

And I also said I am the best bet for a lynch, unless we lynch Tiberius and something more comes up. However, I am sure you are mafia, since your willing to commit to this action already - if I were mafia, now would be the last time to try and throw suspicion on myself in the endgame. It is bad play, and goes against Game Theory.

If Yoyoma allows, I will show you all PM's from me to him.

Also, Yoyoma, please allow the extension as QJC requested.

Your timing for the "reveal" is just too perfect YLC.


Andres
Quintus
Tiberius
ATPG
YLC

--> lynch Andres: 4 players left.
--> night: YLC kills Quintus or ATPG
--> 3 players left. Tiberius : WoG -> 1 mafia vs. 1 townie = mafia victory.

We can't afford to take any risks at the moment. Tiberius hasn't posted since the 10th of January so he will almost definitely be WoG'ed.

Also, we need at least 3 votes on Tiberius if we want your plan to work. As long as we don't have more than 2 votes on Tib, you can easily screw us over.

I've seen mafia messing with last minute vote switches more then once in Capo II and I'm not willing to take risks. My vote stays where it has been put. If I'm wrong, I'll wholeheartedly apologise after the game is over

You do realize Tiberius will not be wogged? And that at this point it does not matter for whom you vote for? You will be owing me that apology at the end of the game Andres. As you laughing my face for being mafia. Or ATPG does because we all buyed into his "neutral" alignment.

I myself would bury myself in a cave and not come out for for 2 days if APTG was the mafia, he would of played us badly if it was him.

Actually, would it be possible to have no lynch today? We all abstain?