The Curia

[SwissBarbar]

Avlvs leaped to his feet and shouted

It has been made clear that sending the Legio III Campania to Greece would be extremely beneficial for Roma AND Greece. [/I]

Made clear? MADE CLEAR? I hoped you just understood why sending only one legion would be nothing but stupid. Your intransigence is outrageous and not worthy of a roman Legatvs!

We send far more than one legion and take all of Greece, or not only our soldiers will die for NOTHING, but also your so called "benefits" would go under compared with the costs keeping the city and defending it against the thousands of other non-spartian Greeks who will not just watch us taking their capital and do nothing.

[Mooks]

Avlvs leaped to his feet and shouted



Made clear? MADE CLEAR? I hoped you just understood why sending only one legion would be nothing but stupid. Your intransigence is outrageous and not worthy of a roman Legatvs!

We send far more than one legion and take all of Greece, or not only our soldiers will die for NOTHING, but also your so called "benefits" would go under compared with the costs keeping the city and defending it against the thousands of other non-spartian Greeks who will not just watch us taking their capital and do nothing.

It is my fault that we have not made it CLEAR that we do not intend to take all of Greece. I am merely waiting for the scribes to finish writing the official proposed edict so I can hand it personally to every senator here.

(OOC we are getting the nuts and bolts on it and it should be done shortly. Please Potocello answer your forum msgs)

[SwissBarbar]

Since the second legion soon reaches its target, I have to go now. My representative shall continue for me.



(OOC: since every turn has 3 months, he will be there in time ;-) )

[Mooks]

Since the second legion soon reaches its target, I have to go now. My representative shall continue for me.



(OOC: since every turn has 3 months, he will be there in time ;-) )

May lady fortuna look down upon you.

*Gives a roman salute*

[Potocello]

Avlvs leaped to his feet and shouted



Made clear? MADE CLEAR? I hoped you just understood why sending only one legion would be nothing but stupid. Your intransigence is outrageous and not worthy of a roman Legatvs!

We send far more than one legion and take all of Greece, or not only our soldiers will die for NOTHING, but also your so called "benefits" would go under compared with the costs keeping the city and defending it against the thousands of other non-spartian Greeks who will not just watch us taking their capital and do nothing.

"Avlvs have you even been listening to what has been said here?! The Greeks are WEAK! They are locked in civil war with each other, they are too preoccupied with fighting each other that they will not have the resources to start a war with us. I require only one Legio because that is all that is needed to beat these weakened people.

And how dare you say that i am not worthy of my rank, tribvnvs . Have you experienced as much as i have? Have you felt the hot blood of your foe spirt onto your face? Have you watched your own commander slain at the hands of naked, crazed maniacs?! When you are a Legatvs you may come back and make judgments, but until then hold your tongue where rank is concerned!"

[SwissBarbar]

"Avlvs have you even been listening to what has been said here?! The Greeks are WEAK! They are locked in civil war with each other, they are too preoccupied with fighting each other that they will not have the resources to start a war with us. I require only one Legio because that is all that is needed to beat these weakened people.

And how dare you say that i am not worthy of my rank, tribvnvs . Have you experienced as much as i have? Have you felt the hot blood of your foe spirt onto your face? Have you watched your own commander slain at the hands of naked, crazed maniacs?! When you are a Legatvs you may come back and make judgments, but until then hold your tongue where rank is concerned!"

Avlvs already was in front of the door, when the Legatvs spat this words towards him. He answerd sharply

Have you been ever to Greece? They fight the Makedonians, yes? Do you REALLY think the Makedonians or the Epeirotes will tolerate Roman presence in Greece? Do you? I tell you what:

THEY WOULD RATHER THROW THEIR OWN BALLS TOWARDS OUR CITYWALLS UNTIL THEY'RE SMASHED, THAN LET US HAVE ONE SINGLE INCH OF THE LAND THEY REGARD AS THEIR OWN.

The Makedonians are in war with the Koinon Hellenon, because they want their land, so they'll never leave it to us just like that. We only would unify them with the Epeirotes. If you were the great tactican and warrior you say, you would see that. Yes, I dare question your intentions, Legatvs. I say you don't seek the best for rome, but only a chance to distinguish yourself. You better profile yourself by cleaning the latrines of my family's villa, instead of sending Roman brothers to unnecessary death! Don't YOU underestimate MY skills, for warfare and honour are in my family's blood. What is in your blood? The skill to get honourable men to lose their rag, maybe. You better watch, that it's not YOUR balls one day that are smashed into our City walls.



After this very sharp speech, he listened to the proposal of Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio and comments it calmly.

Very well, Decimvs. Congratulations. Thats how a proposal should be built, even if it is a bad one. This is what I think about these points.

1)Send Legio III to southern Greece, below the Polis of Athens, with ships acquired from the merchant class. Legio III will land at a appropriate spot and will acquire the city's of Greece it see's fit, and if possible have the Greeks attack us when we are strategically positioned on a hill.

- Not Legio III is to be sent, but NEW Legions or at least Legio III without its current commander Legatvs Longvs, to prove, that its not Legatvs Longvs liability to distinguish himself, that makes him propose this. Important: Minimum TWO Legions

2)Legio III requests extra troops for garrison. Levys or skirmishers will suffice. If
Rome's treasury can not afford it at the time then disregard point 2.

- Agree with the extra tropps

3)When legio III gains control of a greek polis, it will immeditely stabilize it. Then proceed to pick a prominent citizen that is friendly to Rome out of its population. Immediate reopening of trade with Rome (OOC a client state). Taxes will be set as see's fit by the tribunes or by special command of the consul or dicatator. Levy troops will be raised as soon as possible for garrison duty to free up legionnaires.

- And while you are raising Levys the Macedonians, Epeirotes and Hellenons will send their heavy Phalangites and chop them into fish bait. I say we take Sparte, then Korinthos and then Athenai. So we have our backs free from enemies as we advance, and can defend the two straitened passages into our new lands. Possible, for we will have TWO legions there.

4)All spoils will be sent back to Rome immediately. Estimated amounts are in the thousands of talents. All cash made by the sell of slaves will be the general's as per tradition (OOC historically accurate, the general got the money made from slaves). Majority of slaves will be sold in the slave markets of Taras or to the east.

- They are, if we take all of their cities, yes. If we stick to your plan, then estimated amounts are in the thousands of Roman bodies.

5)Legio III is willing to wait until the capture of northern celtic settlements until the official order to march is given.

- And there in the north it shall stay, and defend our northern border against the Barbarians, for Legatvs Longvs is SUCH a GREAT fighter and is very experienced in fighting those Barbarians, right?

6) If this edict is passed. Legio 3 will proceed to forts outside of Taras to await eventual transportation to the greek mainland.

- You better prepare for cold winters in the north.


He turned to the senators

Senatores! I agree, we go to greece. But not in a suicide operation. Think about my words and make yourself clear, whats at stake here. Don't send our fellow Roman brothers into death, just to satisfy ONE mans greed!

With that he went out the door and rode to his Legion, hoping, that the other senatores were no fools and would see how unnecessarily dangerous this proposal was.



(OOC: Please note, that our Roman legions are not yet those tough chaps as they were in Caesars army 200 years later. They lost extremely many men against the Epeirotes, and though they won at the end, they respected Greek phalanx formation. And actually they did not know, that the AI will be stupid, and not unify against invaders ;-) )



.

[Potocello]

Avlvs already was in front of the door, when the Legatvs spat this words towards him. He answerd sharply

Have you been ever to Greece? They fight the Makedonians, yes? Do you REALLY think the Makedonians or the Epeirotes will tolerate Roman presence in Greece? Do you? I tell you what:

THEY WOULD RATHER THROW THEIR OWN BALLS TOWARDS OUR CITYWALLS UNTIL THEY'RE SMASHED, THAN LET US HAVE ONE SINGLE INCH OF THE LAND THEY REGARD AS THEIR OWN.

The Makedonians are in war with the Koinon Hellenon, because they want their land, so they'll never leave it to us just like that. We only would unify them with the Epeirotes. If you were the great tactican and warrior you say, you would see that. Yes, I dare question your intentions, Legatvs. I say you don't seek the best for rome, but only a chance to distinguish yourself. You better profile yourself by cleaning the latrines of my family's villa, instead of sending Roman brothers to unnecessary death! Don't YOU underestimate MY skills, for warfare and honour are in my family's blood. What is in your blood? The skill to get honourable men to lose their rag, maybe. You better watch, that it's not YOUR balls one day that are smashed into our City walls.



After this very sharp speech, he listened to the proposal of Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio and comments it calmly.

Very well, Decimvs. Congratulations. Thats how a proposal should be built, even if it is a bad one. This is what I think about these points.

1)Send Legio III to southern Greece, below the Polis of Athens, with ships acquired from the merchant class. Legio III will land at a appropriate spot and will acquire the city's of Greece it see's fit, and if possible have the Greeks attack us when we are strategically positioned on a hill.

- Not Legio III is to be sent, but NEW Legions or at least Legio III without its current commander Legatvs Longvs, to prove, that its not Legatvs Longvs liability to distinguish himself, that makes him propose this. Important: Minimum TWO Legions

2)Legio III requests extra troops for garrison. Levys or skirmishers will suffice. If
Rome's treasury can not afford it at the time then disregard point 2.

- Agree with the extra tropps

3)When legio III gains control of a greek polis, it will immeditely stabilize it. Then proceed to pick a prominent citizen that is friendly to Rome out of its population. Immediate reopening of trade with Rome (OOC a client state). Taxes will be set as see's fit by the tribunes or by special command of the consul or dicatator. Levy troops will be raised as soon as possible for garrison duty to free up legionnaires.

- And while you are raising Levys the Macedonians, Epeirotes and Hellenons will send their heavy Phalangites and chop them into fish bait. I say we take Sparte, then Korinthos and then Athenai. So we have our backs free from enemies as we advance, and can defend the two straitened passages into our new lands. Possible, for we will have TWO legions there.

4)All spoils will be sent back to Rome immediately. Estimated amounts are in the thousands of talents. All cash made by the sell of slaves will be the general's as per tradition (OOC historically accurate, the general got the money made from slaves). Majority of slaves will be sold in the slave markets of Taras or to the east.

- They are, if we take all of their cities, yes. If we stick to your plan, then estimated amounts are in the thousands of Roman bodies.

5)Legio III is willing to wait until the capture of northern celtic settlements until the official order to march is given.

- And there in the north it shall stay, and defend our northern border against the Barbarians, for Legatvs Longvs is SUCH a GREAT fighter and is very experienced in fighting those Barbarians, right?

6) If this edict is passed. Legio 3 will proceed to forts outside of Taras to await eventual transportation to the greek mainland.

- You better prepare for cold winters in the north.


He turned to the senators

Senatores! I agree, we go to greece. But not in a suicide operation. Think about my words and make yourself clear, whats at stake here. Don't send our fellow Roman brothers into death, just to satisfy ONE mans greed!

With that he went out the door and rode to his Legion, hoping, that the other senatores were no fools and would see how unnecessarily dangerous this proposal was.



(OOC: Please note, that our Roman legions are not yet those tough chaps as they were in Caesars army 200 years later. They lost extremely many men against the Epeirotes, and though they won at the end, they respected Greek phalanx formation. And actually they did not know, that the AI will be stupid, and not unify against invaders ;-) )



.

"Avlvs I find your lack of respect disgusting not worthy of even a Roman tribvnvs! You criticize my leadership and yet you have never experienced it. You speak of your FAMILY'S warfare and honor but how come i do not see yours? You vile piece of pig shit, you have not proven yourself on the battlefield for if you had, you would be able to speak to me eye to eye as a legatvs. I have lost all respect for you and i am ashamed that you are even called Roman. he mumbles under his breath so only few can hear him. Perhaps the Greeks were onto something by ostracizing people, I would surely cast my vote for this...child.

I find it despicable that us civilized Romans have sunk to such extremes as this. The order and respect of this Curia has gone right out the window. The Legio III Campania has made a simple proposition and instead of discussing it like the noble Romans we are, we have all trashed our honor with these insults. How would the rest of the world feel if they saw us in this pitiful state? We would be a Joke! I will lose faith in our political system if this is the way the Curia continues to operate."

Servivs sat down with fiery fury in his eyes. He wished he had his gladius to run this man through.

[Il_Duce]

Legatus Nero has been in and out of the Curia for the better part of a day now. There has been a heated argument regarding the future plan for Hellas-- the Senate has decisively split between two "factions"... those (including many veterans) who are opposed to such early incursions on Greek lands, and those (including many naive young senators) who wish to march upon Sparte itself. He remains seated when he speaks in his signature whimsical, satirical style to the ever fiery Servivs Sempronivs Longvs

Oh, sit down you old donkey. What have you done so recently as to warrant such a vile mouth? Sit on your fat ass all day and order people around? Under the leadership of Legatus Cotta, the first army of the two original legions have been fighting a campaign so your legion could have enough coin to even exist. You make these petty threats to senators who oppose your precious idea of a grand campaign yet are utterly shocked when the same senator disagrees with your dream.

You speak of going to war as though your one legion of men who have most likely never seen combat shall conquer all of the arche that Alexandros once held. What you don't realize in your naive haste is that mother Roma can not begin to afford an oversea campaign against a world power. The greeks have long lost the glory they once had during the homeric epics, but these are not a group of uncivilized spear-throwing sheep herders either. Your own selfishness is the problem, my friend. You wish to leave as soon as possible, jealous of Legio I and II's glorious victories in the north and wishing to capture the fame for yourselves. I am loyal to the Repbulic and wish every Roman honor and glory on the battlefield, but when leaders are so childish to throw a temper tantrum because they must wait but a few years to go to war, I can only hang my head in shame.

Do not question our great Dictator in his plans, our greatest leader Cotta in his forethoughts, or even the youngest senator in his own doubt of your grand scheme. I hope you stand atop Mt. Olympia itself and slay that incestuous pig of a god Hercules himself some day... but it shall not be tomorrow my friend. Wait patiently, then capture glory and be remembered in the history books as Servius Sempronius Longus, the great scourge of Hellas. If you do not, you will be remembered in history as that damned fool of a dead general.

[Potocello]

"Good Senator Nero, the whole point of the Curia is to decide on such matters as these. We vote, and discuss our
next actions and if asked to, the Legio III will follow Roma loyaly, to wherever she may send us.

You tell me that i wish to leave as soon as possible. You tell me that i question Cotta when he is not here to speak.
And yet, i do not remember ever doing such things, you are putting words in my mouth senator. You also question my
motives saying that I am lusting for glory. But what of Cotta and Regulus? Are their intentions so pure? It seems you
all think that i must go to Greece when this is not so. I will gladly go wherever you vote to send me. I also find
it interesting that you insult my anger at Avlvs. Were you listening to what he had said? You mock me with
your indescisions, is it my fault that i am stuck in Capua? I don't think so, I would much rather be fighting
at the side of the Legios I and II or in Greece.

As was said by Scipio, this proposal is subject to change, so if you feel that I would personally gain too much from it,
change it. If you want to wait, change it. If you want to have support from the Legios I and II,
change it. It is the privilage of every Roman to do so."

Servivs sat, exhausted from this topic it had dragged on for too long...

[Il_Duce]

Well Servius, if you claim you represent Legio III and their wishes then why don't you simply tell your men what I told you. Do not campaign so aggressively for orders into Greece when you say you don't mind where you go, as it insults us Senators who ere on the side of logic. You complain of being in command of a Legion, and then insult the Romans under your rank. It is sad to see you are displeased with what is a once in a lifetime opportunity.