Will ETW retail be a standalone version (no Steam install)?

[Belgolas]

Agreed. It's a shame companies still use mthods such as this. Recent events have firmly established that even the most draconian copy protection does nothing to stop piracy. I wish more companies would follow the example of Stardock and remoe any form of copy protection from the game, it makes things easier for paying customers, and not particularly any easier for pirates.

O.K. Leave your car door and House unlocked at all times. Hey an experience person can take your car in 60 seconds so why not let them take it in less.

[Sir Beane]

O.K. Leave your car door and House unlocked at all times. Hey an experience person can take your car in 60 seconds so why not let them take it in less.

Yeah why not? It would be mean to inconvenience them after all.

This isn't something that needs to be discussed here however. DRM is a sensitive topic best suited to discussion in the backroom, and not in the Empire Total War forum. It's best if we stick to talking about the game.

[Husar]

Having no internet connection at all is like having a computer that cannot run the game. Got to upgrade and go with the times or suffer the consequences, as bad as it may sound.

[SirRethcir]

Having no internet connection at all is like having a computer that cannot run the game. Got to upgrade and go with the times or suffer the consequences, as bad as it may sound.

Well, it's not just an hardware issue as you imply, but yes I live with the consequences.
And, it seems there are alternatives to TW coming around the corner. ;)

[Monk]

Having no internet connection at all is like having a computer that cannot run the game. Got to upgrade and go with the times or suffer the consequences, as bad as it may sound.

As sad as it is for some people this has become the truth.

The industry expects you to have some kind of internet connection, just like many publishers ship games solely on DvDs now. It is an expectation that has been brought on by advances in hardware, the times, and the PC gaming community. Where ten years ago online support was an added bonus, now days you get a funny look from people if you tell them the game you just bought is single-player only.

For whatever reason there are people who are unable to obtain some kind of reliable net connection on the comp they play games on, whether because they cannot afford it or just simply their location. It's a crap situation to be sure.

I understand fully the complaints that people are raising with the Steam activation but I suppose I am just being an optimist when I say that SEGA/CA could have made things a heck of a lot worse than Steam. When things like SecuROM and the infamous SPORE DRM are out there, Steam can't help but look attractive to me.

As for the issues brought up with Steam in this thread, I can only say I haven't even had the majority of them in the last two years. When Steam came out with Half-life 2 it was a mess, but since then the team behind the service has really upped their game. The only time steam seems to suck up CPU power is when it's first initializing, after that it's fine from my experiences. The Steam servers aren't nearly as unstable as they used to be. I don't think i've been kept from playing a game I wanted to play with Steam since the weekend hl2 was released. That's just me though, and my experiences do not equate to the experiences of others. Take the words as they are.

[Polemists]

SecuROM and the infamous SPORE DRM

I really don't see a difference, I own spore. I had go through the same obstacles, finding internet, activating, etc. I see no difference between steam activation and DRM activation honestly, other then the fact one has a account and one just requires you to be online. Infact I'll say that DRM was far far easier to activate because you didn't have to set up an account.

With steam of course your not getting a program installed in the backround I suppose, but steam's program I always found bugs, glitches and hassles with. When I uninstalled spore I just read the drm stuff online and removed the drm stuff like they said.

The true annoyance with steam for many will be you can't just get online and "activate it" you have set up an account, which means your going to have to find some quality internet time somewhere.

It may be a sign of the times, espically with 12-30 million people playing MMORPG's, next time your in the store ask your clerk you are looking for a turn based strategy game, and be amused by the puzzle look he will give you. He will probably direct you to Red Alert 3

People always assume such things, still even I who does not have a solid internet connection prefer the one time activation over a constant online activation.

Though make no doubt, even though they constantly say the studies show however many gamers dont' have net, sooner or later you will have a full online webscreen pop up in every game. Much like other franchises there will be a launch window showing news, updates and instant patches. Just way games are going sadly.

Though just like DRM and SecuROM, there will be write arounds and loop holes for steam with in the first day. It's just nature of the beast. Pirating is as likely as net activation requirements.

[Monk]

I really don't see a difference, I own spore. I had go through the same obstacles, finding internet, activating, etc. I see no difference between steam activation and DRM activation honestly, other then the fact one has a account and one just requires you to be online. Infact I'll say that DRM was far far easier to activate because you didn't have to set up an account.

We'll just have to agree to disagree there.

People always assume such things, still even I who does not have a solid internet connection prefer the one time activation over a constant online activation.

Though make no doubt, even though they constantly say the studies show however many gamers dont' have net, sooner or later you will have a full online webscreen pop up in every game. Much like other franchises there will be a launch window showing news, updates and instant patches. Just way games are going sadly.

I didn't realize just how many people lack a solid internet connection until about a month or so ago. It really surprised me, and made me a bit sad that DRM and activation software doesn't really taking them into account. Unfortunately DRM is a really tricky issue. You can't do one thing without upsetting one group, so they try to take it in another direction to appease that group and you inadvertently upset another.

[lars573]

As for the issues brought up with Steam in this thread, I can only say I haven't even had the majority of them in the last two years. When Steam came out with Half-life 2 it was a mess, but since then the team behind the service has really upped their game. The only time steam seems to suck up CPU power is when it's first initializing, after that it's fine from my experiences. The Steam servers aren't nearly as unstable as they used to be. I don't think i've been kept from playing a game I wanted to play with Steam since the weekend hl2 was released. That's just me though, and my experiences do not equate to the experiences of others. Take the words as they are.

I was using Steam before that. The final release of steam is an excellent piece of software. Most people who have an issue with it I think used one of the beta versions. Which made Windows ME look stable by comparrison.

Having no internet connection at all is like having a computer that cannot run the game. Got to upgrade and go with the times or suffer the consequences, as bad as it may sound.

My options are spend a few hundred dollars I don't have (for gear that may not work), or carry my tower across the yard. Which is covered in 10cm of ice. Concievably until late March.

[peacemaker]

so, I have no idea what steam is. Long story short, will I be able to buy Empire at a store and possibly have to set up an account on steam to install ETW? Also, I often go places without internet, after installation will I be able to still play singleplayer without an internet connection?

[knoddy]

so, I have no idea what steam is. Long story short, will I be able to buy Empire at a store and possibly have to set up an account on steam to install ETW? Also, I often go places without internet, after installation will I be able to still play singleplayer without an internet connection?

yes i believe that is the general idea.

my understanding of steam is kinda just like an online server, u can buy games and download them legally of the server. and i think it also may help in match makin for multiplayer games although i honestly dont know that much about it so dont take my word.

From what they are saying it seems to me that you will have to make an account and register online probs with ur cd key to try and avoid piracy.

pls forgive me if im wrong :)

Cheers Knoddy

[Monk]

so, I have no idea what steam is. Long story short, will I be able to buy Empire at a store and possibly have to set up an account on steam to install ETW? Also, I often go places without internet, after installation will I be able to still play singleplayer without an internet connection?

From my understanding Steam will require a one-time activation of your cd-key, which occurs on installation. After that you will not require constant contact with the steam server if you wish to play offline.

[BeenPlayingSinceRTW]

As for the issues brought up with Steam in this thread, I can only say I haven't even had the majority of them in the last two years. When Steam came out with Half-life 2 it was a mess, but since then the team behind the service has really upped their game. The only time steam seems to suck up CPU power is when it's first initializing, after that it's fine from my experiences. The Steam servers aren't nearly as unstable as they used to be. I don't think i've been kept from playing a game I wanted to play with Steam since the weekend hl2 was released. That's just me though, and my experiences do not equate to the experiences of others. Take the words as they are.

The thread I referenced in my first post is dated Dec. 2008, and has complaints from Steam users about CPU utilization of 50% - 60% while Steam client is running, so it seems like there are still a lot of problems with Steam.

The fact that it will apparently be required to install the Steam client in order to install ETW indicates that Steam will be doing something other than just being used for "activation" of ETW. There are more straightforward ways of doing activation without mandating the install of third-party software. Probably it will be required to have the Steam client running in the background eating CPU while playing ETW.

And probably, setting up a Steam "account" will involve giving credit card and other information to Steam.

Personally, I think it is kind of short-sighted of CA to partner with Steam, since Steam is owned by Valve, which is a competing game manufacturer. Even if Steam is paying CA some sort of spiff or kickback for every Steam account created in conjunction with an ETW purchase, the creation of a Steam account gives Valve the entire customer list for the Total War franchise. If Valve ever decides to market their own strategy game, they will have all of CA's customer information, including credit card information for all of CA's customers (which CA itself may not even have). Who knows what additional information will be obtained by Steam regarding usage patterns of CA's customers? What if Valve gets bought by EA or Microsoft? What will happen to this information?

[Sir Beane]

The thread I referenced in my first post is dated Dec. 2008, and has complaints from Steam users about CPU utilization of 50% - 60% while Steam client is running, so it seems like there are still a lot of problems with Steam.

The fact that it will apparently be required to install the Steam client in order to install ETW indicates that Steam will be doing something other than just being used for "activation" of ETW. There are more straightforward ways of doing activation without mandating the install of third-party software. Probably it will be required to have the Steam client running in the background eating CPU while playing ETW.

And probably, setting up a Steam "account" will involve giving credit card and other information to Steam.

Personally, I think it is kind of short-sighted of CA to partner with Steam, since Steam is owned by Valve, which is a competing game manufacturer. Even if Steam is paying CA some sort of spiff or kickback for every Steam account created in conjunction with an ETW purchase, the creation of a Steam account gives Valve the entire customer list for the Total War franchise. If Valve ever decides to market their own strategy game, they will have all of CA's customer information, including credit card information for all of CA's customers (which CA itself may not even have). Who knows what additional information will be obtained by Steam regarding usage patterns of CA's customers? What if Valve gets bought by EA or Microsoft? What will happen to this information?

CA are not the only company to partner with Steam. Many manafacturers have chose than route recently due to Steam being an excellent platform for online retail and multiplayer support.

You do not have to provide any kind of credit card, debit card or any other financial information to create an account. I don't even own a credit card, and I have an account.

Valve are not really a 'competing' game manafacturer. CA do not make FPS games, Valve do not make strategy games. This is unlikely to change in the forseeable future. Even if they did come into competition CA will not be at any paticular disadvantage because of using steam as a distribution platform.

As for 50% - 60% CPU usage? That is quite a figure, and one I can only see happening in extreme circumstances. I run steam constantly when playing game such as Half Life, and I doubt it uses even 5% of my CPU.

I can understand your concerns with Steam, but most of the problems you have given are based on paranoia rather than legitimate problems. Millions of people use Steam's service every day, and it wouldn't be that succesful if it wasn't doing something right.

[BeenPlayingSinceRTW]

CA are not the only company to partner with Steam. Many manafacturers have chose than route recently due to Steam being an excellent platform for online retail and multiplayer support.

...so since everyone else is doing it it must be good? You're not serious are you?

You do not have to provide any kind of credit card, debit card or any other financial information to create an account. I don't even own a credit card, and I have an account.

Well that's good to know, thanks.

Valve are not really a 'competing' game manafacturer. CA do not make FPS games, Valve do not make strategy games. This is unlikely to change in the forseeable future. Even if they did come into competition CA will not be at any paticular disadvantage because of using steam as a distribution platform.

Sure, they only make FPS right now, but the game software business is very volatile. Once they take a look at the size and buying patterns of RTS gamers, they may decide to get into the business. You are dreaming if you don't think that CA giving away THEIR ENTIRE CUSTOMER LIST to a third-party company doesn't put them at a competitive disadvantage. Anytime Valve wants to get into the RTS business, they can do so easily because they will have a ready-made database of existing RTS gamers. Not only will they have a list, but they will know which gamers are hardcore players, which are popular with other gamers, which are the best players, etc. Valve will know more about CA's customers than CA does itself.

And what if Valve ever gets bought by Microsoft (who make AofE)?

CA are clearly only thinking about the short term and getting an extra few dollars per ETW customer, IMHO. And next year, where will ETW customers go for information about the new Total War version - to message boards like this one, or to Steam's user forums?

As for 50% - 60% CPU usage? That is quite a figure, and one I can only see happening in extreme circumstances. I run steam constantly when playing game such as Half Life, and I doubt it uses even 5% of my CPU.

If you clicked through on the thread link I posted there were several different people posting about their own bad experiences with Steam CPU usage, including one guy with a 3ghz dual core having problems. That's not my number, it's what someone else posted on another board.

Millions of people use Steam's service every day, and it wouldn't be that succesful if it wasn't doing something right.

Millions of people use Windows, that doesn't mean there aren't problems with it. What is your point? Just because something is popular doesn't mean it isn't problematic.

[Monk]

And probably, setting up a Steam "account" will involve giving credit card and other information to Steam.

Personally, I think it is kind of short-sighted of CA to partner with Steam, since Steam is owned by Valve, which is a competing game manufacturer. Even if Steam is paying CA some sort of spiff or kickback for every Steam account created in conjunction with an ETW purchase, the creation of a Steam account gives Valve the entire customer list for the Total War franchise. If Valve ever decides to market their own strategy game, they will have all of CA's customer information, including credit card information for all of CA's customers (which CA itself may not even have). Who knows what additional information will be obtained by Steam regarding usage patterns of CA's customers? What if Valve gets bought by EA or Microsoft? What will happen to this information?

I never gave any financial information to Steam in the account process. Nor have I been asked for it since I've had my account active. You can give them that stuff if you wish to buy games through them, but since I don't want to do that I'm not required to.

Also a lot of game companies have partnered with Steam. For example, Relic is offering the Dawn of War 2 beta through it. This is nothing new.