Palestinians in Gaza blaming ... Hamas?

**Guildenstern** · 01-25-2009, 17:27

Unfortunately, now it's only Hamas money that is helping the Gazans who suffered the torments of war.

**Pannonian** · 01-25-2009, 17:48

Originally Posted by Guildenstern

Unfortunately, now it's only Hamas money that is helping the Gazans who suffered the torments of war.

So why doesn't the US or EU just take over the direct government of Palestine? Sod this nonsense about an intractable problem and the impossibility of persuading all sides to mutual agreement. Take over domestic policy, so there will no longer be the culture of corruption, nor any shortage in fundng. Take over foreign policy, so attacks on Israel will no longer be tolerated, nor Israeli encroachment on Palestinian territory. Promise any potential investors that stability will now be guaranteed by the new administration. No BS about democracy and whatnot - the administration of the province is geared entirely towards stability and eventual prosperity.

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 01-25-2009, 17:59

Originally Posted by Pannonian

So why doesn't the US or EU just take over the direct government of Palestine? Sod this nonsense about an intractable problem and the impossibility of persuading all sides to mutual agreement. Take over domestic policy, so there will no longer be the culture of corruption, nor any shortage in fundng. Take over foreign policy, so attacks on Israel will no longer be tolerated, nor Israeli encroachment on Palestinian territory. Promise any potential investors that stability will now be guaranteed by the new administration. No BS about democracy and whatnot - the administration of the province is geared entirely towards stability and eventual prosperity.

Iraq II -- complete with having to fight incursions by our allies!

There is no political will to do this in the USA, nor are the resources really lined up for it with major committments in Iraq and Afgnanistan ongoing.

Sadly, I think a combo of your idea, Pan, with Kukri's, is the only recipe that might work. Israel will kill comparitively few yanks, and with enough resources and time the FBI would eventually marginalize the more criminal/terroristic elements of Hamas etc. Of course, the whole thing would be a boon to other terrorist recruiting efforts elsewhere as we would be seen as reincarnating the Crusader kingdom. Ah, the joys of the Middle East.

**Pannonian** · 01-25-2009, 18:11

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Iraq II -- complete with having to fight incursions by our allies!

There is no political will to do this in the USA, nor are the resources really lined up for it with major committments in Iraq and Afgnanistan ongoing.

Sadly, I think a combo of your idea, Pan, with Kukri's, is the only recipe that might work. Israel will kill comparitively few yanks, and with enough resources and time the FBI would eventually marginalize the more criminal/terroristic elements of Hamas etc. Of course, the whole thing would be a boon to other terrorist recruiting efforts elsewhere as we would be seen as reincarnating the Crusader kingdom. Ah, the joys of the Middle East.

The main problem with Iraq is the democratic BS I talked about. Everyone knows that the US will eventually leave, so they fight to get into position to control Iraq once they eventually do. So start by establishing that this isn't an effort to create a democracy in Palestine, which will be handed over to the Palestinians ASAP. The west, whichever body decides to take control, is there to stay. It is there because they don't trust the Palestinians to govern their country to their satisfaction. Would it boost terrorist recruiting efforts? Probably, but is the difference between that and existing recruiting efforts really worth the continuing instability?

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 01-25-2009, 18:58

So, just like our other two Mid-East ventures, then?

I don't think Hamas would go quietly, either.

**LittleGrizzly** · 01-25-2009, 19:06

Im sure there were some israeli's who blamed the israeli goverment for the rocket attacks of Hamas as well, unfortunately such people are minoritys in israel as well as palestine and they will blame the foriegn enemy over thier own bad goverments...

**Crazed Rabbit** · 01-25-2009, 19:29

I'm sorry, but I see any possible US led invasion of Gaza as a huge debacle. Think of the press that would get - and the fact that we'd be getting ourselves into a very thorny situation.

CR

**Furunculus** · 01-25-2009, 19:30

Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Im sure there were some israeli's who blamed the israeli goverment for the rocket attacks of Hamas as well, unfortunately such people are minoritys in israel as well as palestine and they will blame the foriegn enemy over thier own bad goverments...

let me get this straight:

not enough palestinians stood up to denounce hamas for launching rockets from their homes.
and
not enough israelies stood up to denounce Kadima for letting Hamas lauch rockets at their homes.

have i got that right?

**Pannonian** · 01-25-2009, 19:39

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

So, just like our other two Mid-East ventures, then?

I don't think Hamas would go quietly, either.

Too bad, but nothing that a police lockdown wouldn't be able to solve. Hold out the carrot of eventual integration into the EU, if this is an EU undertaking, or the US, if this is a US undertaking. This isn't a democratic adventure, to liberate the Palestinians from their tyrannical rulers. This is actual integration into the western world. Given what they've experienced so far, wouldn't this be a substantial enough carrot?

**Fragony** · 01-25-2009, 19:50

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Too bad, but nothing that a police lockdown wouldn't be able to solve. Hold out the carrot of eventual integration into the EU, if this is an EU undertaking, or the US, if this is a US undertaking. This isn't a democratic adventure, to liberate the Palestinians from their tyrannical rulers. This is actual integration into the western world. Given what they've experienced so far, wouldn't this be a substantial enough carrot?

What the hell? This is about integrating Hamas in the western world????

**Pannonian** · 01-25-2009, 19:57

Originally Posted by Fragony

What the hell? This is about integrating Hamas in the western world????

Palestine. The people of Hamas can go along with it, or they can be purged. If they care about the Palestinian people and the Palestinian land that much, this is a chance to ensure the integrity of Palestinian land, the functionality of Palestinian institutions, and the prosperity of the Palestinian people. If the EU takes over direct control, the interests of the Palestinian people will be guaranteed by the EU. So any more Israeli incursions will be met by EU militaries, and EU measures.

People moan about how the Palestinians never make a decision that satisfies them. So take direct control, so you make their decisions for them. In exchange, you also take responsibility for their wellbeing.

**Fragony** · 01-25-2009, 20:08

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Palestine. The people of Hamas can go along with it, or they can be purged. If they care about the Palestinian people and the Palestinian land that much, this is a chance to ensure the integrity of Palestinian land, the functionality of Palestinian institutions, and the prosperity of the Palestinian people. If the EU takes over direct control, the interests of the Palestinian people will be guaranteed by the EU. So any more Israeli incursions will be met by EU militaries, and EU measures.

People moan about how the Palestinians never make a decision that satisfies them. So take direct control, so you make their decisions for them. In exchange, you also take responsibility for their wellbeing.

So that all europeans on top of the Israeli's are to blame, no thanks. They already could have had everything.

edit, bit much

**LittleGrizzly** · 01-26-2009, 03:54

have i got that right?

I was saying most people don't blame thier own goverments for actions leading to the attacks but rather blame the attacker (of them) which is true for almost all countries...