UK'S SNOW CHAOS

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I live in a city, I have no shovel, how do I clear the pavement?

[Hosakawa Tito]

Heh... The property owners are mad considering the council not being able to clear their sidewalks.
They're all: Give the man a shovel not a camera (in a more colourful language).

Our cities and towns have the same ordinance and problems. Some homeowners, especially the elderly & disabled cannot shovel. Renters won't shovel their section, you're lucky to get the rent. Property owned by the town isn't cleared on a consistent basis either. Then there's saps like me who shovel mine, my mother's, my elderly neighbor, and my two rentals only to have the street plow come along and fill 'em back in. I'm thinking about installing toll booths on my section of sidewalk to help recover maintenance costs *shovels & chiropractor visits*.

[Fisherking]

Our cities and towns have the same ordinance and problems. Some homeowners, especially the elderly & disabled cannot shovel. Renters won't shovel their section, you're lucky to get the rent. Property owned by the town isn't cleared on a consistent basis either. Then there's saps like me who shovel mine, my mother's, my elderly neighbor, and my two rentals only to have the street plow come along and fill 'em back in. I'm thinking about installing toll booths on my section of sidewalk to help recover maintenance costs *shovels & chiropractor visits*.

Some times I think these guys lay in wait until someone shovels out just so they can make them do it again!

There is nothing quite like shoveling out to the street in deep snow, especially the wet heavy stuff, and when you go in to recover a little energy before going out, the plow comes and builds a five foot wall between you and the street.

It makes the several tons you moved before look small in comparison!

[Husar]

So the elderly can't shovel and can't walk outside either and that's why homeowners shovel the snow onto the street, then complain they cannot use their cars until the authorities have the streets ploughed ahen the homeowners have to shovel the sidewalks again....
The easiest solution would be a working subway net and having schoolkids run errands for the elderly, then you can just leave the white glory in peace, everybody will be happy and the schoolkids can help the economy with their earnings. Oh, and we'd do a lot to stop the global temperature of terror, doom and destruction.

[KukriKhan]

So the elderly can't shovel and can't walk outside either and that's why homeowners shovel the snow onto the street, then complain they cannot use their cars until the authorities have the streets ploughed ahen the homeowners have to shovel the sidewalks again....
The easiest solution would be a working subway net and having schoolkids run errands for the elderly, then you can just leave the white glory in peace, everybody will be happy and the schoolkids can help the economy with their earnings. Oh, and we'd do a lot to stop the global temperature of terror, doom and destruction.

When I was a kid, I made pretty-good kid-money doing all those things. I loved when it snowed. I shovelled my side of the block (brother did the other) then ran errands for half a day. By sundown I'd be tired, but proud, and "rich".

[Sigurd]

I live in a city, I have no shovel, how do I clear the pavement?

Table salt and a spoon might just do the trick, If you have the time.

Oh... BTW it snows outside. Right this very minute .

Proof:

[KukriKhan]

Table salt and a spoon might just do the trick, If you have the time.

Oh... BTW it snows outside. Right this very minute .

Proof:

A beautiful scene, Sigurd... but no sidewalks. You live in the woods?

[Sigurd]

A beautiful scene, Sigurd... but no sidewalks. You live in the woods?

Heh... the streets are on the other side of the building. I made sure to get an office with a woods view.
Ya... know... Norway and its environmental Nazism.
When building, you must make sure that you do as little harm to the nature as possible, hence it looks like I am inside a wood. Which is more or less true.

I like the scenery though.

[Husar]

When I was a kid, I made pretty-good kid-money doing all those things. I loved when it snowed. I shovelled my side of the block (brother did the other) then ran errands for half a day. By sundown I'd be tired, but proud, and "rich".

That's the spirit.
Except for the shovelling, but I can see how a good capitalist like you would make money out of that as well.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Actually, I've been thinking about this pavement-shoveling thing.

In the UK the government owns the pavements and roadsied verges, people get in trouble if they obstruct either (the English in particular have a habit of claiming bits of verge with rocks and gnomes), I assume this is so in other countries. If so, given that the state owns the pavement, how do they justify you shoveling it?

It's no different than shoveling the road, surely?

[Lemur]

In Soviet Russia, pavement shovels you!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Eh?

Sorry don't get it.

[Tribesman]

Actually, I've been thinking about this pavement-shoveling thing........

Good points Wigferth .
So a couple of questions .
With that common law thing does that mean that if you keep the pathway snow free for 12 years does it count as maintaining the land so it becomes your property in the 13th year ?
Does accepting liability to clear the path to maintain a right of passage mean that you would also be liable for all repairs or improvements on that path even if you don't own it ?
If you cleared the snow but left (or by the nature of the weather had formed) a layer of black ice would you be liable for anyone that slipped on that ice ?
Do you need a certificate of competance to ensure that you are able to clear snow without someone suing you for accidents from incompetant path clearance?

[Strike For The South]

It is 62 degrees here.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Good points Wigferth .
So a couple of questions .
With that common law thing does that mean that if you keep the pathway snow free for 12 years does it count as maintaining the land so it becomes your property in the 13th year ?
Does accepting liability to clear the path to maintain a right of passage mean that you would also be liable for all repairs or improvements on that path even if you don't own it ?
If you cleared the snow but left (or by the nature of the weather had formed) a layer of black ice would you be liable for anyone that slipped on that ice ?
Do you need a certificate of competance to ensure that you are able to clear snow without someone suing you for accidents from incompetant path clearance?

I know that some municipalities charge owners for sidewalk replacement & damage repair. Most damage occurs from large tree roots that heave and break the pavement.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That's interesting, and Tribes has pulled up the relevant bits of Common Law from my young by musty mind. Rapair and maintainance of pavements in Britain is the responsibility of the local Council on public roads, so surely they should have gritted both pavement and road on Monday?

As an aside, the road to my flat was not gritted, presumably because it is difficult to access. Overall we were not badly hit and yet I was still stepping around blocks of ice on Tuesday.

[HoreTore]

That's interesting, and Tribes has pulled up the relevant bits of Common Law from my young by musty mind. Rapair and maintainance of pavements in Britain is the responsibility of the local Council on public roads, so surely they should have gritted both pavement and road on Monday?

As an aside, the road to my flat was not gritted, presumably because it is difficult to access. Overall we were not badly hit and yet I was still stepping around blocks of ice on Tuesday.

Then here's an idea:

Grab a shovel and do something about it. Like the rest of us have to.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Then here's an idea:

Grab a shovel and do something about it. Like the rest of us have to.

Under UK law that would be a very bad idea for me to do, and I don't have a shovel. I should pay £20+ for a once in a twenty year event? If everyone in this block did that we might as well pay the government to clear it.

I don't own the pavements, the city does. The city will fine me if I leave anything on them, they are responsible for the maintainance. Why should I clear something that at every other time I am not allowed to interfere with.

Or are you just dissagreeing for form's sake?

[Lemur]

MY township owns my sidewalk as well, but I shovel it when it gets covered with snow. That's what all of us who live in colder climates do. You don't sit on your favorite chair and wait for the city to do the work; you get out and you clear the walk.

A snow shovel costs 20 quid? Seems a bit dear to me.

[KukriKhan]

Under UK law that would be a very bad idea for me to do, and I don't have a shovel. I should pay £20+ for a once in a twenty year event? If everyone in this block did that we might as well pay the government to clear it.

I don't own the pavements, the city does. The city will fine me if I leave anything on them, they are responsible for the maintainance. Why should I clear something that at every other time I am not allowed to interfere with?

Excellent point(s).

If Her Majesty, who actually owns the roads and byways, saw on her breakfast schedule of 'things to do today' were listed "Visit Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla", at home,

did so, and slipped on the sidewalk leading to your house. Who would be responsible for any injuries she might suffer?

[Thermal]

Some people seem to be sarcastic about the snow in UK, america in-particular, but to those people remember the UK isn't prepared for snow like this, its 2 1/2 inch where i am and in some of USA and canada that is normal and measures are made to prevent it being a problem, however britain is somewhat unprepared for such extreme weather.

[Fisherking]

Some people seem to be sarcastic about the snow in UK, america in-particular, but to those people remember the UK isn't prepared for snow like this, its 2 1/2 inch where i am and in some of USA and canada that is normal and measures are made to prevent it being a problem, however britain is somewhat unprepared for such extreme weather.

We all know that 777Ares777. And any ribbing is only in fun. There are a lot of places that should be prepared for snow events and get them almost yearly but are not…and the snow received in the UK would also send them into a panic…

While there are places where that amount is totally insignificant so it all has a touch of irony…

Enjoy the Snow!

[Ironside]

It is 62 degrees here.

But then you're wimps who cannot handle snow or cold properly.

We all know that 777Ares777. And any ribbing is only in fun. There are a lot of places that should be prepared for snow events and get them almost yearly but are not…and the snow received in the UK would also send them into a panic…

While there are places where that amount is totally insignificant so it all has a touch of irony…

Enjoy the Snow!

That's pretty accurate, the same weather that hit the UK has arrived here and have gotten slightly reinforced on the way (estimated to fall about 30 cm snow). It goes down as annoying, as it will last for days and it's currently quite windy. Thus it has been a warning about snow smoke.

Still it's nothing serious or unusual.

[Sigurd]

Update...
It has started snowing again.

We here at the west coast are used to shifting weather. Cold - warm, Rain - snow, windy - windier.
Usually you will have all combinations within a single week.

This is the usual scenario:
Clouds gather ... temperature stays around the freezing point ... Heavy precipitation results in a few inches of snow ... You shovel and clear paths and property, but what you cleared is refilled ... ...Temperature raises above freezing point, precipitation turns into rain ... snow turns to slush ... temperature sinks again ... Ice everywhere. ... you salt and sand your property to get rid of the danger ... Temperature rises ... clouds gather ... rinse and repeat.

I can no longer count on two hands the times this has happened this year. My Salt/Sand budget will crack.
I get to exercise though.

[Fisherking]

Update...
It has started snowing again.

We here at the west coast are used to shifting weather. Cold - warm, Rain - snow, windy - windier.
Usually you will have all combinations within a single week.

Yes! Unlike Bavaria where we get wider variances within the course of some days! Rain, Snow, Sleet, Clear Sunshine, snow quickly melts, followed by Snow, then Snow…and next hour it may start over again!

But the next snow is now predicted for Saturday or Sunday.

[FactionHeir]

Excellent point(s).

If Her Majesty, who actually owns the roads and byways, saw on her breakfast schedule of 'things to do today' were listed "Visit Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla", at home,

did so, and slipped on the sidewalk leading to your house. Who would be responsible for any injuries she might suffer?

Me thinks either the council, or....god (if he should exist that is).

Heavy Snow's forecast for Friday again. Supposedly the same as Monday.

[HoreTore]

MY township owns my sidewalk as well, but I shovel it when it gets covered with snow. That's what all of us who live in colder climates do. You don't sit on your favorite chair and wait for the city to do the work; you get out and you clear the walk.

[InsaneApache]

I get the wife to do it. A double whammy.

[Hosakawa Tito]

I get the wife to do it. A double whammy.

After she cooks dinner, plumps up your sofa pillow and fetches your beer right?

[InsaneApache]

Exactley.