ETWs in game languages

[Freedom Onanist]

At that time though, British sounded much CLOSER (though not exactly like) to modern Americans than to modern British. It was a very raw and growling language and they graged their vowels out really long. That is the opinion of most important lingual experts I have heard at least.

I am not arguing witht he fact that British English evolved more in the intervening 200 years than US English. After all, for a large part of that time there was a larger population speaking and introducing evolutionary steps into the language in Britain than the US. However, also there are many, many different accents in the UK, even patois, these became mixed in the US.

I am just saying that people speaking English in N America and Britain 2-300 years ago wouldn't have sounded as far apart as we do today. Whether that sounded more like "American" today is a bit irrelevant because then it was British. It doesn't make sense to have Brits sounding like americans to today's audience, so the British sounding Americans (in context).

Gosh! Here we go again!

Yes colonials in 1775 sounded just like the home land…

It was the homeland that changed the way they spoke, not the colonials who became the US…

What do Canadians sound like?

The Brits changed their friggen accent not the other way around!!!!

So it might be best if the Americans sound American rather than have an accent that didn’t exist yet!

Oh dear As per above. Thanks for agreeing with me (in large bold CAPS ) that the Americans of the day sounded like the Brits of the day....

[Barkhorn1x]

Oh my. These posts just prove my point. People will be disappointed no matter what.

[Vuk]

Unless they are willing to put serious research and consult serious linguists about the way that the language would have sounded (which would seem pretty absurd and hard to understand for today's audiences) I think that the easiest and most accurate thing for them to do would be to just give them American accents. The intonation of the American accent is much closer than the British would be.

[Fisherking]

I am not arguing witht he fact that British English evolved more in the intervening 200 years than US English. After all, for a large part of that time there was a larger population speaking and introducing evolutionary steps into the language in Britain than the US. However, also there are many, many different accents in the UK, even patois, these became mixed in the US.

I am just saying that people speaking English in N America and Britain 2-300 years ago wouldn't have sounded as far apart as we do today. Whether that sounded more like "American" today is a bit irrelevant because then it was British. It doesn't make sense to have Brits sounding like americans to today's audience, so the British sounding Americans (in context).

Oh dear As per above. Thanks for agreeing with me (in large bold CAPS ) that the Americans of the day sounded like the Brits of the day....

It is most certainly not irrelevant that Estuary English did not sound as it does today!

That is simply silly. Armor evolved into Tanks…should we have had Roman Tanks in RTW?

Of course not!

So if the modern British accent is portrayed in the game (which it should not be) then it should not be given to the American Colonials!

Language and accents are very touchy subjects…If you give Americans British accents…there are a whole lot more Americans and Canadians to get upset then there are speakers of that accent in a part of the British Isles…

And I am sure that the Scots and Irish would be just as upset if you gave it to their factions should they emerge…

[Rufus]

Washington probably had something close to a Virginia Tidewater accent today, one of the older American accents (based on the isolated Chesapeake communities like Tangier Island that speak the strongest version of it) - a kind of softer, more aristocratic, maybe more "British" version of a Southern accent, with some pronunciation idiosynchrasies like "oot" for out and "hoos" for house.

As for the 18th century Brits, wasn't that right around the time today's "Queen's English" accent started really taking hold, especially among the elites? In that case, E:TW should probably err on the side of traditional "British" accents for the British characters, and modern American ones for the American characters (but if George Washington has a Virginia Tidewater accent, I will be very happy).

[Sir Beane]

The problem is that if the British were given American accents in ETW, no matter how accurate it is, thousands upon thousands of fans would be outraged.

Very few people know much about linguistics, and even fewer know about language change and how the American and British accents have developed over time. To them having the British sound American would seem silly.

CA have to play to what the public percieve is 'accurate'. That means Queen's English Brits, Snooty Frenchman, etc.

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation really. To be 'accurate' in the public eye they have to be deliberately innacurate. Either way one group is going to be offended, it just happens to be linguists because there are fewer of us.

Pleae try not to get too involved in this discussion. Arguing with fellow members isn't going to make CA put better accents in game. Keep your points calm and civil please.

[Vuk]

The problem is that if the British were given American accents in ETW, no matter how accurate it is, thousands upon thousands of fans would be outraged.

Very few people know much about linguistics, and even fewer know about language change and how the American and British accents have developed over time. To them having the British sound American would seem silly.

CA have to play to what the public percieve is 'accurate'. That means Queen's English Brits, Snooty Frenchman, etc.

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation really. To be 'accurate' in the public eye they have to be deliberately innacurate. Either way one group is going to be offended, it just happens to be linguists because there are fewer of us.

Pleae try not to get too involved in this discussion. Arguing with fellow members isn't going to make CA put better accents in game. Keep your points calm and civil please.

While I see your point Sir Beane, I do not completely agree with you. The thing is that enough people know enough about lingustics to appreciate the realism, and they have a real reason to be offended if it is incorrect. (because after all, isn't unrealistic voice acting offensive ) The people who know little about linguistics though have no reason to be offended if they believe it is wrong. And if they think that it is weird and look it up, they will see that it is correct. I think that CA should strive for realism when they can do so. I realise marketing concerns and such, but I hardly see why this would be any more difficult for them or cost them any business.

[Sir Beane]

While I see your point Sir Beane, I do not completely agree with you. The thing is that enough people know enough about lingustics to appreciate the realism, and they have a real reason to be offended if it is incorrect. (because after all, isn't unrealistic voice acting offensive ) The people who know little about linguistics though have no reason to be offended if they believe it is wrong. And if they think that it is weird and look it up, they will see that it is correct. I think that CA should strive for realism when they can do so. I realise marketing concerns and such, but I hardly see why this would be any more difficult for them or cost them any business.

Finding good voice actors capable of portraying accurate historical accents is more difficult than you might think. Even huge Hollywood movies with gigantic budgets have problems finding historical voice actors. And that means CA would have to pay more, for actors salaries, and for the cost of finding and recruiting capable actors.

I don't really find unrealistic voice acting offensive. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to watch any American movie or show with a British character, because they always have us Brits sounding like upper class twits. And to be honest no one I know sounds anything like that.

I'm a language student and I can fully appreciate the range of languages and accents that would have to be present to make a game like Empire at all accurate. The fact is though that even scholars of language disagree on how people of the time spoke. The debate only gets worse the more languages you add into it.

I would love it iff the Magyars, English, Americans and every other faction and group of people sounded accurate. It won't happen though., and I do think it is a little unfair to expect CA to do so.

[Vuk]

Finding good voice actors capable of portraying accurate historical accents is more difficult than you might think. Even huge Hollywood movies with gigantic budgets have problems finding historical voice actors. And that means CA would have to pay more, for actors salaries, and for the cost of finding and recruiting capable actors.

I don't really find unrealistic voice acting offensive. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to watch any American movie or show with a British character, because they always have us Brits sounding like upper class twits. And to be honest no one I know sounds anything like that.

I'm a language student and I can fully appreciate the range of languages and accents that would have to be present to make a game like Empire at all accurate. The fact is though that even scholars of language disagree on how people of the time spoke. The debate only gets worse the more languages you add into it.

I would love it iff the Magyars, English, Americans and every other faction and group of people sounded accurate. It won't happen though., and I do think it is a little unfair to expect CA to do so.

Definately, which is why I said that they should just simplify it by using SE USA voice actors. It would be no more trouble than using Brit voice actors, and while it would not be accurate, it would be a lot MORE accurate. That is all I am saying.

[Fisherking]

I think it is a good idea for the Brits to sound English! But I think it is more important that the Colonials sound American.

Both are relatively inaccurate approximations of speech of the time. One more so than the other, the dumb factor can not be ignored of course…so it is smarter and less likely to cause a furor if both have different accents in the game.

Last time I checked there were a few hundred million more English speakers in North America than in the UK.

It isn’t as smart to tick off the larger numbers with giving everyone the accent of an Oxford Don.

Surely you can see the point in that…



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I don’t think the discussion has degenerated to name calling and discussing peoples parentage…nor should it.

A good civil argument is stimulating and I hope all here are adult enough to continue in a civil fashion.

No worries Sir Beane!

[Barkhorn1x]

Otherwise I wouldn't be able to watch any American movie or show with a British character, because they always have us Brits sounding like upper class twits. And to be honest no one I know sounds anything like that.

Are you sure about that? Every time I see a talk show or documentary on the Beeb they all pretty much sound like that.

Odd.

[Sir Beane]

Are you sure about that? Every time I see a talk show or documentary on the Beeb they all pretty much sound like that.

Odd.

It's no suprise the BBC sounds like that, they make an effort to get people who speak RP English (like The Queen). Talk shows tend to have more regional accents now however.

I live in Derbyshire, which is a rather rural part of England and has one of the oldest (and oddest) accents. Speaking Queen's English will get you funny looks around these parts. I know that from personal experience (apparently I sound 'a bit posh' ).

England's a small country, but we have plenty of variation in accents.

[Freedom Onanist]

The problem is that if the British were given American accents in ETW, no matter how accurate it is, thousands upon thousands of fans would be outraged.

Very few people know much about linguistics, and even fewer know about language change and how the American and British accents have developed over time. To them having the British sound American would seem silly.

CA have to play to what the public percieve is 'accurate'. That means Queen's English Brits, Snooty Frenchman, etc.

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation really. To be 'accurate' in the public eye they have to be deliberately innacurate. Either way one group is going to be offended, it just happens to be linguists because there are fewer of us.

Pleae try not to get too involved in this discussion. Arguing with fellow members isn't going to make CA put better accents in game. Keep your points calm and civil please.

My point exactly, thank you.

Sometimes history acually gets in the way.