The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Grr... I actually have to go. I can't make good on the promise that I will vote myself today.

New offer:
Lynch Reenk today, and I will be here to vote myself tomorrow, and openly encourage everyone to lynch me. Or lynch Tevash, and I'll shut up for a whole day. How's that sound? You have AMPLE proof I am innocent, and you have my head as an offer of sacrifice, WHENEVER you wish to have it. Give me benefit of doubt for ONE ROUND. It WILL NOT AFFECT THE GAME except in a positive way. You've got me, I am dead at your discretion. Please listen to me.



That's all from the peanut gallery for today. I am spending V-day with my girlfriend, but I will be back. And if you do decide to lynch me, I will continue my efforts, and you can ignore me or not. As I said, it is OK to lynch me. But it's better to lynch mafia, and I will be dead whenever you wish it. You have nothing to lose.


Edit: @Ichigo
Ignoramus is lurking and will be lynched or investigated shortly, I am sure. For now, we do have bigger fish. You are proven innocent, if you're caught up on everything that's transpired, please do comment. And I know you don't trust me, but please read what I have to say with an open mind, and I know you will understand my point of view.

[Csargo]

Edit: @Ichigo
Ignoramus is lurking and will be lynched or investigated shortly, I am sure. For now, we do have bigger fish. You are proven innocent, if you're caught up on everything that's transpired, please do comment. And I know you don't trust me, but please read what I have to say with an open mind, and I know you will understand my point of view.

He should have already been lynched imo. I'm not sure why you guys haven't yet.

[Askthepizzaguy]

He lurks in most every game, and he has a 25/28 chance of being innocent.

Plus, as I mentioned, he can be lynched or investigated easily at any time. And since there's one kill, there are a LOT of game rounds left.

And apparently, even though I personally put the nail in Lord Winter's coffin, which has bought us a ONE MURDER PER ROUND either due to the fact that LW is mafia, or mafia are playing a gambit, and despite my exhaustive analysis:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=675

I am still the biggest suspect in the minds of Andres, Sasaki, and Seamus, even though I cleared all 3 of them, indeed most of town, of suspicion, and even though Reenk's total scumminess or total lack of paying attention-ness has been proven by me. Between the two of us, which townie should objectively survive this round? Not Reenk. Tevash can die too as far as I am concerned, but I am even more sure of Reenk.

I'm letting my emotions show here. But Reenk's proposed defense is riddled with poor logic, paranoia, and blatant ignorance of the facts or intentional avoidance of them.

I don't have to do this, you know. It does not matter, I am going to die, guys. Whether it's this round or not makes no difference if I am scum. But if Reenk is scum, and we lynch him this round, that's a much better move. Do as you will... if you don't make the correct choice, I will be disappointed, but it still doesn't matter. Just promise me he's dead.





@everyone besides Ichigo
If I need to repeat myself, I will, but it shouldn't be necessary.



Hypothetical argument against me:
"He's defending himself, he must be scum! Total scum maneuver!"

No, it's not. If you read the content of what I have said, I've offered you my life and will not resist if you choose to lynch me. And if you blatantly ignore WHAT I am saying and only focusing on the fact that I am saying it, you're doing town a disservice and you're being lazy and irresponsible. Sorry, needed to be said. This isn't going to make me popular either, but I refuse to sacrifice logic to suck up to you.



No hard feelings, and by the way, I am having delightful fun here. Don't mistake passion for anger.




Final thoughts:

If you do lynch me, could you make my death method "Beaten to death with Rubber Chickens"? Consider it my last living request. It will help soften the blow. Then we can continue.

[Csargo]

He lurks in most every game, and he has a 25/28 chance of being innocent.

Plus, as I mentioned, he can be lynched or investigated easily at any time. And since there's one kill, there are a LOT of game rounds left..

He doesn't lurk, he doesn't participate at all. Every time he has it's been because he had a role.

[seireikhaan]

I'm thinking it was a prank...if none of us can figure out what khaan was supposed to be hinting at in those posts even when we look over them carefully, how is the mafia supposed to have seen it? Consider also that the mafia killed tincow who isn't a trusted person either.

Ah, but I know for a fact that someone else already has figured it out. However, they seem hesitant to reveal this fact.


Also, in regards to the Pizzaman:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No offense, guys. But why are you being dumb? Just because Pizzaman can be exhaustive and horribly incorrect does not mean he is guilty. HE PUT THE LYNCHING VOTE ON LORD WINTER. Why would a mafioso willingly cut their number of kills down so early in the game, especially when Lord Winter still had a decent chance of survival. Pizzaguy could have easily voted Sasaki instead, but did not. Please, folks, USE YOUR HEADS.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Extension denied.

-edit- Okay, that was harsh. But I'm just following precedent. Consider Silver Rusher's reason to deny an extension in a certain round of Godfather 2 (I was lynched right after I claimed Detective):

Sorry, I'm not going to change the 24 hour voting time just because something has happened. Nobody who didn't vote will be killed, don't worry.

To be totally honest, I always wanted to pull that reasoning out.

[naut]

I'm rubbing my two brain-cells together seireikhaan:

Not this, it's a joke and nothing more. I hope.

This, well you make reference to write-up analysis. TinCow has been performing this analysis and ended up dead. Probably coincidence. I think here though your simply pointing out that write-up analysis isn't that useful.

This shows you have a good knowledge of previous games' write-ups. But, that would make you suspicious, thus it would be better for the mafia to keep you alive.

Maybe this is it. Mayhap you regret voting Ichi, when the other target was better!?

Hmmm. A veiled reference to lurkers. Seamus perhaps?

If it turns out to be really obvious I'm going to feel as thick as a ruddy brick.

[TinCow]

Is it just me, or is Reenk Roink being unusually defensive about the pressure being put on him? I've only been in a couple games with him now, but in both of those he retained a relatively care-free and jovial attitude even when he was under the gun. This is the first time I've seen him launch into serious evidentiary counter-arguments to the accusations being placed against him. I would be grateful if some of those who know his play style better could comment on whether this is out of the ordinary.

[Andres]

Ah, but I know for a fact that someone else already has figured it out. However, they seem hesitant to reveal this fact.

'khaan, please, just say what you have to say.

Yes, we don't have enough brain cells to see the mysterious wisdoms in your cryptic words.

Get over it and just say what you have to say in humanish

[seireikhaan]

'khaan, please, just say what you have to say.

Yes, we don't have enough brain cells to see the mysterious wisdoms in your cryptic words.

Get over it and just say what you have to say in humanish

Let me put this hypothetically, Andres(and I'm not meaning this in accusatory tone): What would it take for you to order my death on the second night if you were a mafioso?

[shlin28]

Because you are a detective and got a guilty result? and then told the MAFIA about it???

Edit: Or maybe the twist in this game is mafia recruitment.... you refused to join their side?

Apart from that, I got nothing for now.

[White_eyes:D]

Is it just me, or is Reenk Roink being unusually defensive about the pressure being put on him? I've only been in a couple games with him now, but in both of those he retained a relatively care-free and jovial attitude even when he was under the gun. This is the first time I've seen him launch into serious evidentiary counter-arguments to the accusations being placed against him. I would be grateful if some of those who know his play style better could comment on whether this is out of the ordinary.

If you recall.....when I pressured him too much on "Chicago soiree"...that ended up leading to your lynch Reenk is a little defensive.....but have Skynet 2.0 try and say..."your 100% scum" and try NOT defending yourself....I would....hell, even Tevash did

[Reenk Roink]

Is it just me, or is Reenk Roink being unusually defensive about the pressure being put on him? I've only been in a couple games with him now, but in both of those he retained a relatively care-free and jovial attitude even when he was under the gun. This is the first time I've seen him launch into serious evidentiary counter-arguments to the accusations being placed against him. I would be grateful if some of those who know his play style better could comment on whether this is out of the ordinary.

Yeah I am, so? Are you going to note this behavior change and then formulate a case that I am Mafia because of it...

The accusations by Atpg are so bad and inconsistent (note how he didn't bother to reply to them though he loves to parse every post he can) that it is kinda fun to respond.

Again, you did say before that Atpg's case was well argued. well analyzed, and consistent, and those claims have been, well, savaged, so that is why I will get defensive against your posts. Not to mention that weird statement about innocence and not misleading

Anyway...

Atpg, you posted, but nothing of value. This is the only thing that new that I need to respond to (everything else is up there):

If you truly believe this, then never analyze anyone again. There is a huge streak of hypocrisy and illogic in that statement.

First there is nothing "illogic" about that statement at all. Again, please don't make accusations without actually supporting them (a pretty common occurrence in your recent posts).

Logic really has very little to do with this game. Many poor arguments are constructed on syntactical valid forms and many good arguments are invalid. The reasoning in these games is largely irrelevant anyway, the premises are the key.

As for hypocrisy, hey, I love to do it, you got a problem with it?

But yes, there are huge problems with trying to analyze behavior and find Mafia. And even if you try to get away from an epistemic defense of this method (because that would be nearly impossible), it has very little pragmatic merit anyway. I've seen your Skynet (built on people following behavior types that are Mafia cliches: "changing behavior" and "lurking" and "3rd on bandwagon") fail miserably before, and it's failing horribly now.

Also, in many cases it is not hypocrisy. Sometimes I put on some facade of analysis so I can just vote for someone - annoying, but you have to please the mob to lay low and avoid their wrath.

Anyway Atpg, I win you lose, you're all but lynched, and I'm still alive!

[Chaotix]

Reenk: Just what exactly is so great about you staying alive, anyway?

You act as if ATPG is personally out to get you here, when really he's just following through with what SkyNet tells him. And then, it's not just ATPG either. Your last couple of posts have been absolutely full of scummy-sounding sentences that anyone would call you out on.

You also act as if your death will cause the loss of the game. The only thing you lose by being dead, if you do not have a role, is your vote. There is nothing saying you cannot post your wild sense of humor, or your suspicions against others (of which you have done remarkably little this game except against TinCow the very nearly proven innocent). You can even defend Beefy, still, if you truly believe he must be defended at this point in the game. Why, then, do you suggest it is so important to you that you remain alive?

I will not remove my vote from you. I see nothing significantly incriminating in either Tevash or ATPG, and I will remain uninvolved in deciding a lynch between them.


Seireikhaan: What is so important to winning this game that you have to spoon-feed it to us in riddles rather than just telling us already? Who do you think the mafia is and why?

[TinCow]

Anyway Atpg, I win you lose, you're all but lynched, and I'm still alive!

Exactly the point. Most people ignored ATPG's advice right off the bat and voted to lynch him. Despite his WALL OF TEXT, he hasn't accomplished much, and the accusations have never really stuck on you. I don't see why you keep acting so defensive when not only have you won the contest, you won it a long, long time ago.

[Reenk Roink]

Reenk: Just what exactly is so great about you staying alive, anyway?

You act as if ATPG is personally out to get you here, when really he's just following through with what SkyNet tells him. And then, it's not just ATPG either. Your last couple of posts have been absolutely full of scummy-sounding sentences that anyone would call you out on.

You also act as if your death will cause the loss of the game. The only thing you lose by being dead, if you do not have a role, is your vote. There is nothing saying you cannot post your wild sense of humor, or your suspicions against others (of which you have done remarkably little this game except against TinCow the very nearly proven innocent). You can even defend Beefy, still, if you truly believe he must be defended at this point in the game. Why, then, do you suggest it is so important to you that you remain alive?

I will not remove my vote from you. I see nothing significantly incriminating in either Tevash or ATPG, and I will remain uninvolved in deciding a lynch between them.

I don't think it's important for me to stay alive. Again Chaotix with the false attributions. You may vote for me all you want. You have no case to do so however.

I really think that people who are criticizing me are probably Mafia using me as a scapegoat. We can indulge them for awhile though, we have the upper hand.

I find it funny how despite all of the energy Atpg has focused against me, his case has failed to persuade most, except you and TinCow and drawn suspicion on himself. I like Atpg, I encourage him to have fun in these games and do his thing, but I should also have my fun and criticize his system also, no?

And if you don't think it's not out to get me I advise you to re read his case, it is filled it caustic comments (unlike say Kommodus with a similar system who gave a fairly "objective" if you can call it that summary of my posting changes,) very unobjective - for Godsake SkyNet is HIS SYSTEM with HIS OPINIONS - of course he's doing what it tells him to do).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

ATPG, despite massive posting this round, did not respond to my lengthy attack on him and YLC, and did not respond to tevash's defense of himself.

Most of the people voting tevash have not given a detailed explanation and show no evidence of having read the accusation and defense in depth.

Apparently several people didn't read my post, because they keep mentioning that ATPG put the 4th vote on Lord Winter. Go read it, and look at the quotes from atpg where after failing to get votes on curio he waffles around considering going for sigurd. Lord winter was toast at the point ATPG put the vote on, he was already tied so it would have going to a run off, and I don't let up on suspects easy.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting closed.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Tie vote between Askthepizzaguy and Tevash. We're having a re-vote.

I'm probably not going to be around for the voting deadline tomorrow. As such, the re-vote could either be around 22 hours or it could be around 26. I won't be sure until tomorrow, so get those votes in sooner rather than later!

Day 5 tally:

Askthepizzaguy: 5 (TevashSzat, Sasaki Kojiro, Andres, Reenk Roink, Seamus Fermanagh)
TevashSzat: 5 (Quintus.JC, YLC, Beefy187, Askthepizzaguy, Psychonaut)
YLC: 1 (777Ares777)
Quintus.JC: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)
Reenk Roink: 1 (Chaotix27)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

Abstained: 3 (shlin28, White_eyes:D, glyphz)
Didn't vote: 2 (taka, Ignoramus)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:Askthepizzaguy

This post explains my suspicions.


And, sorry to be harsh, but if you want to vote for tevash you really have to read his defense.of himself first.

A summary: ATPG's accusations are bogus and filled with poor reasoning. If you read his megapost you'll see most of his arguments are things like "he is also DEAD CENTER in the posting frequency, a PERFECT place for mafia to hide". If you read my post you'll see why his vote for Lord Winter looks more scummy than towny.

Note that despite posting several times in succession before the deadline and pm'ing people pleading his innocent, ATPG completely ignored my accusation and tevash's defense. He doesn't have answers.

[TevashSzat]

Okay, this is getting really really stupid here

FOS: Quintus.JC, YLC, Beefy187, Askthepizzaguy, Psychonaut

ATPG I love how you haven't answered my rebuttal AT ALL

I spent the time to go through your comments so shouldn't you?

Seriously, I REQUEST THAT EVERYONE WHO VOTES FOR ME ACTUALLY READS MY DEFENCE FIRST BEFORE JUMPING ONTO THE BANDWAGON

@Sasaki,

Thank you for actually reading over things

[Jolt]

LG willingly withdrawing his vote on me,

Vote ? I haven't withdrawn a vote...

due to town pressure

I can't see anything wrong with conforming to what the town wants to a certain degree...

this is what i said

My 'attack' on Jolt seems to have brought a little suspicion or just criticism for bad townie behaviour, if you really believe im being counter productive to the town with my focus on Jolt i am willing to step back from it,

Which seems fair enough to me, i had a bad feeling about a certain player but everyone else didn't see it as paticularly helpful so i was willing to step back from it... which certainly seems ok to me, or would it be better for the town not to work together...

plus the fact that everyone has seen that I'm town seems wierd.

There are no confirmed innocents in this game... due to the rules even the dead aren't 100% confirmed (though likely)

I wish someone investigate him.

I actively encourage it!

I find his behaviour increasingly strange and counter-productive.

I already covered the strange part... the counter productive part could be wrong though... many times the town will lynch the wrong player so not sticking to the one or two suspects available could actually be more productive...

which i basically said with my line about no viable suspects...

the other reason which i may not have mentioned was in my last game i had a bad feeling about boudica and made a vote to that effect as well.. but i just assumed my instincts were clicking at nothing... and when i found out my instincts had been right (for once!) i was annoyed at myself... think i mentioned that at the end of th game...

So because of this i decided to pay a bit more attention to my instincts... unfortunatly due to your death it seems my instinct was well off... and i guess i probably owe you an apology... sorry

You mentioned being offended earlier in the game when i mentioned your english... i apologise for this also!

I may be wrong but mafia i am not..!

Vote:Askthepizzaguy

This post explains my suspicions.


And, sorry to be harsh, but if you want to vote for tevash you really have to read his defense.of himself first.

A summary: ATPG's accusations are bogus and filled with poor reasoning. If you read his megapost you'll see most of his arguments are things like "he is also DEAD CENTER in the posting frequency, a PERFECT place for mafia to hide". If you read my post you'll see why his vote for Lord Winter looks more scummy than towny.

Note that despite posting several times in succession before the deadline and pm'ing people pleading his innocent, ATPG completely ignored my accusation and tevash's defense. He doesn't have answers.

Apologies accepted. :P
I stretched out my arguments against you, thus making sure we both got cleared from any suspicion (Since I basically lost all suspicion, I was logically town and a target to be killed by the Mafia).

When I entered this thread, I had a feeling that I was gonna get killed. My applause to whoever wrote the kill post, it was a fun way to die. :P

Anyways, I think that the next Mafia hit will be LG. As far as a vote for lynch would go, I'd advise lynching ATPG. I think he is hiding behind his UBER WALL OF ADVICE to town, and he could very well be one of the Mafia (I wouldn't be surprised if he was the Godfather himself.)

[seireikhaan]

I REPEAT: ATPG PUT THE LYNCHING VOTE ON LORD WINTER. AFTER LORD WINTER'S LYNCHING, THERE HAS BEEN ONE LESS KILL PER NIGHT. PLEASE USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE.

EDIT: Please don't take this the wrong way, Tevash. But Pizzaguy is as innocent as can be.

And to clarify: when Pizzaguy put his vote on Lord Winter, it was a tie between Lord Winter and Sasaki. Lord Winter was not even close to "as good as dead".

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just to clarify, this means that the slate is wiped clean and you can only vote for ATPG or Tevash.

[Thermal]

This vote is not good, i believe both are innocent

From where im standing im not believing a word of the write ups, its so twisted with fact and fiction its hard to extract the truth and the nonsense, unless its the consistant parts, i.e : the nude uni cyclist and the constant baby eating theme

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And to clarify: when Pizzaguy put his vote on Lord Winter, it was a tie between Lord Winter and Sasaki. Lord Winter was not even close to "as good as dead".

Yes he was. What were the votes on me? None of them were from people who were seriously suspicious. They were placeholder votes and votes to save beefy. One person had already switched from me to Lord Winter. Read my post. I had a good case on Lord Winter and he didn't have a good response. I don't let go of people. In any revote, Lord Winter would have been lynched. I'm telling you, ask yourself what the mafia partner of Lord Winter would do in that situation and you'll see that ATPG's fits it to a T. Try to make a case on someone else and when that fails, knowing that LW will be revealed as mafia, you have to get on board. And afterwards, when another candidate looks possible, waffle enough to give yourself an excuse for switching if you can.

[Quintus.JC]

Sorry but I've been busy and haven't red all the details of the posts...

All I'm saying is to give ATPG some chance and a little more time. His vote on Lord Winter is not a gurantee of his innocence, but it does place him on the innocent piles at least for now.

I am willing to give APTG 2 more days, if after these 2 days no clear result has been shown then we'll lynch him straight.

[White_eyes:D]

Vote:Askthepizzaguy

This post explains my suspicions.


And, sorry to be harsh, but if you want to vote for tevash you really have to read his defense.of himself first.

A summary: ATPG's accusations are bogus and filled with poor reasoning. If you read his megapost you'll see most of his arguments are things like "he is also DEAD CENTER in the posting frequency, a PERFECT place for mafia to hide". If you read my post you'll see why his vote for Lord Winter looks more scummy than towny.

Note that despite posting several times in succession before the deadline and pm'ing people pleading his innocent, ATPG completely ignored my accusation and tevash's defense. He doesn't have answers.

he makes a good point anyone who played "The Promutheus" knows ATPG COULD and would throw people under the bus in order to win (as I have seen).....but anyone who trusts Sasaki....has had a quick funeral... but I also agree...SkyNet is flawed.....it targets, only posting patterns and ATPG's analysis of people (which is biased, everyone has a biased view) but I feel ATPG could be right...but if I had to vote....I really don't know which way to go.....trust Sasaki or trust ATPG?....that is the question....both give some pretty convincing arguments....

[Reenk Roink]

I REPEAT: ATPG PUT THE LYNCHING VOTE ON LORD WINTER. AFTER LORD WINTER'S LYNCHING, THERE HAS BEEN ONE LESS KILL PER NIGHT. PLEASE USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE.

EDIT: Please don't take this the wrong way, Tevash. But Pizzaguy is as innocent as can be.

And to clarify: when Pizzaguy put his vote on Lord Winter, it was a tie between Lord Winter and Sasaki. Lord Winter was not even close to "as good as dead".

We are using our brains khaan. In fact, we are using them more than just going on the simple theory that since Atpg cast the deciding vote for a guy who is most likely Mafia he is innocent. Just an example I remember when Mafia cast deciding vote for Mafia: Seamus on me in Mafia V. Then there have been other games where the Mafia has voted against their own, so...

Now, I agree that Atpg is probably not Mafia, but then he very well may be an evil role. Especially with his insistence on trying to confound things with verbosity (much more than usual).

Even if he is not an evil role, he is being detrimental to the town in my opinion and must go.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

[seireikhaan]

Unbelievable... How is it that these two excellent players cannot either understand basic math, or the distinct difference between maf voting maf in mid-to late game and mav voting maf on the third day...