Discussion: Bad move! What is fair?

[Sir Beane]

Damn i was really hoping to get playing right away without bothering with stam until i went for MP...

Hopefully steam will make up for it someway or another in multiplayer.

Steam has very reliable and stable MP servers, and a reasonable matchmaking service. It also allows you to earn Steam Achivements, thus allowing you to show off to friends .

[ArtillerySmoke]

Steam has very reliable and stable MP servers, and a reasonable matchmaking service. It also allows you to earn Steam Achivements, thus allowing you to show off to friends .

I've never used Steam yet...so I'll take your word for it on it's reliability and features. I know that many here at the .org think alike and can identify quality as opposed to a heap.

That said, the business aspect of it is what bothered me with this. Paying for and physically possessing a product and not being able to use it (locked out of single player? wtf) for over 24 hours simply because Steam exists as a company, leads to anti-Steam sentiment.

I haven't installed DoW2 yet and probably won't until they fix the Day 1 game breaking MP bug (population bug) but I'll report back on how I like Steam after I use it.

At least it'll be all set up for me when Empire drops.

[Incongruous]

How absurd this is, I will buy a proper, physical copy of Empire, yet CA have seen fit to deny me the right of using that which I have puchased and is now mine by forcing me to go through with some idiotic activation scheme, which due to traffic will probably take ages, what If I have no connection at the time?
Shows a complete disrespect of the consumer.

Oh well, they will all get their dues in the near fuure I suppose.

[ToeAndno]

OK

Dont buy it. Don't play it.

[Incongruous]

OK

Dont buy it. Don't play it.

I see, yet another who sees no issue with the eroding of cunsumer rights, well I do and this is wrong.

[ToeAndno]

I've had Steam for years, never had a problem with it. So for me this is not an issue.

If you indeed feel it is wrong then you will not buy the game.

[Incongruous]

I've had Steam for years, never had a problem with it. So for me this is not an issue.

If you indeed feel it is wrong then you will not buy the game.

Point proven.

When you puchase an item with your hard earned money, it should from then on be yours to do as you wish under the law, which means no copying or other illegal uses which it may be put to. You should not be forced to "activate" a game you now own and have bought in good faith, such an obstruction of use is akin to stealing, CA now has your money yet does not allow you to use their product immediatley after purchase. I find this to be rather shady and dishonest.

[Lusitani]

How absurd this is, I will buy a proper, physical copy of Empire, yet CA have seen fit to deny me the right of using that which I have puchased and is now mine by forcing me to go through with some idiotic activation scheme, which due to traffic will probably take ages, what If I have no connection at the time?
Shows a complete disrespect of the consumer.

Oh well, they will all get their dues in the near fuure I suppose.

Exactly!!!

Noone should be "forced" to use steam or whatever for a product one already paid for. Its not even the possible connection issues that bother me, but the abuse and disrespect of a paying consumer. Its the same as saying that ETW isnt a finnished product.

V.

[Mr Frost]

Lets see : a mostly single player game that requires permission from a multi player provider ?
A game someone has payed money for {it will retail here in Queensland for atleast $80} that most people will never play over the internet {ie don't do M.P.} never the less absolutely requires that one connect to the internet {thus , have such a connection working and available at the time} inorder to actually use what one has , again , paid their own money for ?





Either , it is not the case and the disc comes with the usual activation key and that is all that is required

OR

It is a very silly and intrusive descision by Sega for it really sounds too dumb a move to have come from folks at The C/A from what I have gleaned of their apparant intelligence {ie , they seem too smart to do something that dumb} .




None of these sorts of "security" features will stop pirates nor slow them down much {certainly not in proportion to the number of customers whom get annoyed and the degree of said anoyance} as has been demonstrated by the pirated game "industry" yet the providers of such "security" features {and some of which are so badly designed they could be called bugs rather than features like the one that would perminantly disable C.D./D.V.D drives for detecting legitimate to own software} keep managing to fool purse string holding bean counters into using their services .
Major shareholders of the game producing companies {and most other corporations too} really need to stop focusing only on the performance of companies on the stock market and start paying much closer attention to how the corporations they invest vast sums of money into are actually run .
I feel sorry for The C/A having to subject themselves to the system as it stands . It has runed good game companies before today {I wouldn't be the least supprised if one of the biggest reasns The C/A left Activision was Activisions roll in wrecking Troika and Troikas' last game} . [/rant]

[Beskar]

Could be worse, they could have copied EA.

[peacemaker]

It's quite frankly CA's decision. They figure some SP players will be sort of mad, but it will hopefully please MP players. You want them to not have steam? Fine. THey'll go and release the game on release date, and you can get it a week or so later. Or, they can give the game to you later but have you wait politely until March 4th, the RELEASE date, where they intented for players to start playing the game anyway. Steam activation just stops people from just giving the copy to another friend so they can download that for free and not have to pay for the full game, which is what CA wants. If you design a game assuming that each player will pay the full $60, would you be glad if just one person bought the game and gave that game to a bunch of friends so you only get $60 for the game you worked hard on, and were expecting to pay you $60 EACH, not just $60 for like 10 people? Sure, there are plenty of people who have their hacks and whatnot to get past it, but the average gamer(like me!) is too lazy and if it stops them from just easily handing it over to a friend, the average gamer will just say "oh well" and have the friend just buy a copy, therefore giving the game designers the money that they deserve for putting in lots of hard work and effort.

EDIT:I guess, to sum it up, they have steam in order to make sure that most of their customers ARE actually paying. I can personally say that in M2 I changed computers and it didn't care that it was different, there were no issues. This meant I could play from both computers(although the old one is now broken) and if this happened between different friends, you could easily have 10 people playing from 1 copy. The simple steam activation stops this from happening and making sure all customers are actually paying.

[fenir]

Well the only way to make our voices heard, is by not Downloading from steam.

Personally i hate the idea of my computers programs talking to others all the time. And i hate the idea that i have to allow a program to do so. But i can suffer an initial verification. But once then it needs to be over.

But where i really feel for it, is that my cousin is an TW fan and lives in the outback in Australia. He doesn't have internet.

How does he activate the game to play it? Anyway i forgot to tell him, and when he found out, he and his friend, lives next door to them, (about 40km away). Have cancelled their pre orders.


THen with steam, if two people play a modded version of the game, is steam going to recognise that? Or is it going to block it thinking it's a cheat version?

I do hope they have PP play.Thereby stopping steam from being too nosey.
The ability to by pass steam. It's going to be a bugger cracking it.
but will not be impossible.
It also maybe a case for Australian, New Zelaand, and UK laws on right of quiet possession, if people who buy the game cannot play the game. Or have to always rely on steam in which to do so. Thereby involving a 3rd party in the game that have no contract with you.
However if you buy the game from steam, there will be a contract with you and steam, as the retail vendor.
However if purchased from a shop. The contract is with the shop. only under the law of tort will you be able to get at sega behind.
So where the start up verification maybe with steam. I cannot see a problem. Where the problem will come about. is if someone finds out the game keeps talking to the game.
Which then breaches privacy laws.

So if people in these three countries have to be monitored by steam for game use. With out their written consent. Then there is a case to answer for.
Remeber the shrink wrap click if you agree means nothing. It is not law. And hold no legal basis in these three countries.
And any position of companies trying to upsurp the power of law will be seen in a "extremely" disapproving light by the courts.

So my advice. Though not paid for. And holds no legal commitment. Or want of duress, or to enforce any concepts and ideas.
Would be to by your game from a Shop retailer.
Register it with steam. The close off your fire walls to it. If the game then doesn't work. COMPLAIN like hell under Quiet possession of the consumer act.
However. If you have to use steam to play together. You have to accept that you will need to be traffic monitored in some way.



Anyway, those of us that have had steam from the first day. All know the bollocks that steam puts forward. About anti cheats et cetera...
And we all know how to get around them.


These thoughts are my own and do not represent legal adive. Just my experiance with the law.


Sincerely


fenir