Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

[satalexton]

"It's raining men"

"HALLELUJAH!"
"It's raining men! Every specimen!"
"Tall, blond, dark and lean~ Rough and tough and strong and mean~~~~~~"

The armoured ones doo better =P more 'needle' proof too!

[Tollheit]

Druxtiz Xeruska:

Compared to ordinary Xerunoudozez, the Druxtiz Xeruska sucks is somewhat disappointing.
Same price, higher morale (doesn't matter since they are all dead before any other longsword unit would rout), recruitable in only one province, severly worse armor, worse stamina (in spite of being unarmored!), negligibly better javelin attack.
Contrary to the description, these dudes are not "exceptional in defense", and their formation isn't any bit denser than their neighbour's Xerunoudozez, either.

[desert]

Xerounoudozez? You mean Herubrukonez?

Why are you replacing the H's with X's?

[Tollheit]

Xerunoudozez:

I'm using the new and improved EB 1.2 protogermanic nomenclature.

[desert]

Yeah, those are Herubrukonez according to EB 1.1.

Ironic that the only thing keeping me from upgrading is a Sweboz campaign.

[antisocialmunky]

Xerounoudozez? You mean Herubrukonez?

Why are you replacing the H's with X's?

I guess the EB German guy was right that the X's were going to freak people out.

[SwissBarbar]

During my Arverni Campaing I detected the Lugoae to be far more useful than I thought. They are cheap like hell, available in great numbers and can hold a line against heavy warriors long enough to circle around them with heavier infantry or cavalry and attack their rear. Especially when they already have some experience, they are very useful.

They are not meant to win battles against heavier soldiers alone, but though are still far more capable than I expected and therefore diserved to be mentionned in this thread ;-)

[seienchin]

Yes and no. They can hold lines, but dont do any damage and even worse they die like flies when attacked with Javelinnes, which realy gives you a bad day against most other celtic or roman enemies and never even try to fight iberians with them
I think they are unsurprisingly bad.

[Rilder]

Gaemile Liguriae (Ligurian Infantry)


This babies are the mainstray of my Ligurian army in my Aedui campaign (RPing that Liguria is independant but a protectorate of the Aedui)

They can stand face to face with the romans, and win, they also seem pretty flexible. (Though a bug makes them always stand the wrong way while in formation)

[antisocialmunky]

Those guys are pretty good. I like them because the are basically a good version of Celtic levy spearmen.

[A Very Super Market]

Ligurians are basically slightly weaker Romans, but they have a lot more men per unit, making them very good for any Gauls working to sack Rome again.

[machinor]

That's true. I love 'em, too. They are the bane of any Roman Republic being invaded by foreign armies.

[SwissBarbar]

Yes and no. They can hold lines, but dont do any damage and even worse they die like flies when attacked with Javelinnes, which realy gives you a bad day against most other celtic or roman enemies and never even try to fight iberians with them
I think they are unsurprisingly bad.

As I said, some experience points, and they even hold their ground against mean Iberians ;-) I tested it. Please note, that I always play on Medium Battle difficulty for balancing reasons. On VH or so, I wouldn't recruit them either. I think wether they're good or bad is to be decided from the point of view how you use them ;-)

[BurningEGO]

On Very Hard these guys are a nightmare. In my first and hopefully last Roman Campaign, these guys have been tearing my men apart. If i dont flank them or cause a major rout, they will kill my army without doubt.

They are nasty man, nasty.

[A Very Super Market]

Gah, experience points don't count man! Veterans are expected to be better than fresh recruits.

[SwissBarbar]

yes, but Veteran Lugoae are not expected to be so good basta

[A Very Super Market]

They're expected to be better than regular Lugoae, aren't they? And if they perform better than fresh recruits, its nothing special.

[Zett]

We should stop talking about experience points. IMO only freshly recruited units should count.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[SwissBarbar]

Now I am a bit annoyed. Let me try again to make it inescapably cear:

I t - i s - n o t - e x p e c t e d - t h a t - t h o s e - m o r e - e x p e r i e n c e d - s o l d i e r s - h o l d - t h e i r - g r o u n d - s o - g o o d - a g a i n s t - o t h e r - a n d - b e t t e r - u n i t s (which are not Lugoae, but other units. Nonlugoaeic units, which are better armoured and armed than the Lugoae themselves, but are not Lugoae in any from - be it veteran or recruit)

If this does not convince you:

At least to me they are unexpectedly good. I don't say they're great elite warriors, I only say they can do more than I expected. If you didn't expect them to be worse than they are, so to you they are not surprisingly good. Voilà. You have the right to think so. That's the reason why I posted them to be unexpectedly good and not you.

It's completely clear, that more experienced units are better than unexperienced units of the same kind. That's not the point at all.

Any further questions?

[Zett]

Any further questions?

I respect your point of view. I only said that i think they shouldnt count (my opinion) nothing else.

And on topic:

The Katpatuka Zanteush (Cappadoccian Hillmen) are my "wall-defense-unit" at my currently KH campaign, they are not able to beat enemy elites on the field, but on a wall they are able to slaughter even Peltastai Makedonikoi or Hayasdan elite units.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[SwissBarbar]

OK ^^

[BurningEGO]

Gah, experience points don't count man! Veterans are expected to be better than fresh recruits.

Oups, sorry, but i was speaking of game dificulty... isnt that diferent from experience points?

[Ludens]

On Very Hard these guys are a nightmare. In my first and hopefully last Roman Campaign, these guys have been tearing my men apart. If i dont flank them or cause a major rout, they will kill my army without doubt.

But VH screws up game balance, so that's hardly a good reference. On VH any A.I. controlled unit will do major damage.

[heldelance]

I'm playing in normal difficulty right now because I realized that for some reason, my 6 star general with 2 Uirodiosos acting as morale boosters/breakers and the elite Getai Spearmen as my linesmen were breaking and running even when fighting inferior units like the hoplite mercs. Kinda cheesed me off because by all accounts I should have had far more morale.

Anyway, to the units.

As Getai, I find that the elite spearmen are excellent lineholders even against pikemen, they just don't break easy. Bit on the expensive side but I feel they're more than worth their gold, excellent on wall defense too but I've noticed they're not as spectacular on wall offense.

Komatai Thorakitai Stratiotai (Dacian Heavy Phalanx)



Another awesome unit is one that I find indispensable are the Boii Cingetos. Decent linesmen but their speed makes them much better as flankers. They're kinda like the kluddolons (another useful unit, easier to acquire than Boii when campaigning east) but better able to withstand missile fire. I usually use them in conjunction with Drapanai, they guard against enemy counter attacks while the drapanai rip into the enemy from behind.

Boii Cingetos (Boii Swordsmen)

[heldelance]

Sorry for the double post but I've got a few more to add.

The Skuda Fistaeg Fat Aexsdzhytae (Scythian Foot Archers) are insanely good for knocking out mounted skirmishers and other archers. Long range (same as Cretan archers) and decent damage and they seem to only take light casualties when arrow dueling. Pretty cheap as well, I use them heavily for wall defense since they'll cause huge casualties before the enemy even gets to the walls.



The samnite swordsmen (the ones Roma use a lot) are insanely annoying, archers don't do jack against them even from behind they only take light casualties and skirmishers are just as useless against them.
Bloody annoying to have to fight them.

My surprisingly bad unit(s) are pretty much any infantry from the east. Barring the elites, most of the infantry collapse like wet toilet paper when my troops roll in. A frontal charge by my Rhomphaiaphoroi is like seeing a chunk of meat going through a mincer (the meat being the eastern infantry) Some of the non-elites do hold up well like the Ethiopian Swordsmen who do tend to give my mediums a run for their money and they manage to resist my Rhomps. Thorakitai and Thureophoroi troops do tend to hold much better though.

[A Very Super Market]

Well, get far enough East and you will find Indians, which are just insane, even without armour or anything.

[antisocialmunky]

My surprisingly bad unit(s) are pretty much any infantry from the east. Barring the elites, most of the infantry collapse like wet toilet paper when my troops roll in. A frontal charge by my Rhomphaiaphoroi is like seeing a chunk of meat going through a mincer (the meat being the eastern infantry) Some of the non-elites do hold up well like the Ethiopian Swordsmen who do tend to give my mediums a run for their money and they manage to resist my Rhomps. Thorakitai and Thureophoroi troops do tend to hold much better though.

Well the the steriotypical 'peasant levy with spear' kinda suck but most of the eastern light infantry is pretty good. Caucasian Sparabara are my personal favorite of that type.

[heldelance]

I gotta say that some of the eastern light infantry are problematic once they outflank you but they still can't hold the line worth a damn. They'll hold against most light and some medium cavalry but against infantry (I'm using Boii Cingetos and Rhomps with a couple of Gaesatae troops as line breakers) they really just won't hold at all.

[desert]

That's a bit unfair, though.

Rhompaiaphoroi and Gaesatae are the best of the best and will defeat even Spartans handily, and you expect crappy unarmored levies with spears or axes and shields made out of their armpit hairs to hold them off?

[antisocialmunky]

Those light infantry beat Spartans. They're only good against heavily armored infantry. Not naked dudes.