The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[LittleGrizzly]

Personally when i was scum my main aim was to try and act exactly like i usually do, of course when it come to actually constructing a post then... i would check over the post... think twice about posting anything at all that could be taken the wrong way (or more accurately not taken the way i intended)

The case is ironic but logical... which was my point basically...

Personally im unsure on you... just a gut instinct rather than something you've done... im dead anyway so not to worry, was just pointing out that TC's case has some sense to it....

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Love the song choice...anyway I'd recommend curio. I think Andres is innocent.

[LittleGrizzly]

Still alive: (8)
pevergreen
777Ares777
Andres
Quintus.JC
White_eyes:D
Reenk Roink
Beefy187
taka
Gaius Scribonius Curio

Killed:
Tratorix
CountArach
seireikhaan
boudica
TinCow
Jolt
Ignoramus
Sasaki Kojiro
Psychonaut
LittleGrizzly
Chaotix27
pevergreen

pevergreen appears to be some kind of undead or living dead... cool!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks.

[Andres]

Vote : Reenk Roink

Ok, Mister Wanax, you have been asking for my lynching for a couple of rounds now. Please, what is your "case".

Is it better than this "Well, Andres is still alive and he has not been behaving suspicious, so it must be him!"- nonsense?

I'm geared up and ready to rumble

[TinCow]

I would just like to thank the mafioso for providing a write-up with such incredibly poor grammar, spelling, and punctuation that I refuse to believe it is anything but staged. I think it actually requires intimate knowledge of the workings of the English language to create a piece of writing that makes me want to rip out my eyeballs. I would thus look those with higher education degrees and who otherwise write well to find our mafioso; someone like my dear friend, Andres.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In the last game I played with curio he was a very active townie. He had about as many posts as andres and tincow (48) and was active in a townie quicktopic with more posts.

Near the bottom of this page is an example of late round investigation work:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...103099&page=33


In this game he has 25 posts and his investigation is much less in depth. Often one of the things mafioso have trouble with is keeping up the same level of investigation work--it's harder to fake suspicion, it brings unwanted attention, and they just don't care as much.

**********

I think Andres is innocent because threatening suicide as he does here is something I don't believe he'd do as mafia. It's too dishonest and I think he'd consider it unsportsmanlike, that's my impression of Andres anyway.

*********

Reenk is someone we might have to lynch but I don't think this is the round to do it.

[Andres]

intimate knowledge of the workings of the English language

I'm not a native speaker, as you are well aware.

So, in addition to the "he doesn't behave suspicious" you now throw "that write-up was so not like Andres that it has to be written by him?"

I think you're being paranoid now.

[TinCow]

I think Andres is innocent because threatening suicide as he does here is something I don't believe he'd do as mafia. It's too dishonest and I think he'd consider it unsportsmanlike, that's my impression of Andres anyway.

This is a fair point, but it is worth noting that if Andres was the Godfather, a suicide would end the game. Given the very hostile tone of the game at that point in time, and Andres' job as Mod of the Gameroom, I think it would have been entirely reasonable for him to consider forcibly ending the game in this manner. I would thus not consider the suicide discussion as evidence for or against him.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This is a fair point, but it is worth noting that if Andres was the Godfather, a suicide would end the game. Given the very hostile tone of the game at that point in time, and Andres' job as Mod of the Gameroom, I think it would have been entirely reasonable for him to consider forcibly ending the game in this manner. I would thus not consider the suicide discussion as evidence for or against him.

What??

[GeneralHankerchief]

If anybody was to suicide, I would replace them, no matter their role.

Although if it was the Godfather, I would elevate one of his grunts to the position and make the newcomer a Grunt instead for ease of transition's sake.

-edit- and for the record, nobody knew of this mechanic until now.

[Andres]

This is a fair point, but it is worth noting that if Andres was the Godfather, a suicide would end the game. Given the very hostile tone of the game at that point in time, and Andres' job as Mod of the Gameroom, I think it would have been entirely reasonable for him to consider forcibly ending the game in this manner. I would thus not consider the suicide discussion as evidence for or against him.

For the record and in all honesty, my decision to eventually not commit suicide was not influenced by in game role or position as moderator.

At that point I was sincerely and deeply disappointed.

It should indeed not be considered as evidence for or against me.

[TinCow]

I'm not a native speaker, as you are well aware.

So, in addition to the "he doesn't behave suspicious" you now throw "that write-up was so not like Andres that it has to be written by him?"

I think you're being paranoid now.

This is actually the first decent idea I think I've had in a while. Look at this objectively, and I think you'll see what I mean. That write-up has an extraordinary number of grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors. I have not counted, but I do feel like there are far, far more in that write-up than in any of the other ones we have seen. At this point in the game, the mafioso should be pouring over the nightly write-ups to make sure they do not reveal themselves with a slip-up. This would be especially true for those who doubted their ability to detect a pattern in their own style. I would thus expect the current write-ups to have very few errors.

The existence of so many in the previous write-up is almost certainly because they were intentionally inserted. This, in itself, is something that requires skill to do. In order to be able to create a write-up that so skillfully mimics an extremely poor or inattentive writer, one must understand how to write well in the first place. I thus believe that this most recent writer is very skilled. I singled you out, because I know that you have exceptional writing abilities, despite not being a native English speaker. If I am improperly fingering you, then at least consider my argument on its merits and help figure out which other living players could fit this profile.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I singled you out, because I know that you have exceptional writing abilities, despite not being a native English speaker. If I am improperly fingering you, then at least consider my argument on its merits and help figure out which other living players could fit this profile.

Reenk, Curio, and Quintus. I don't see anything but wifom in your case on Andres...

[TinCow]

I don't see anything but wifom in your case on Andres...

A fair assessment, but I think I see far less WIFOM in mafia than most people. I truly do ascribe to Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is the best. It goes without saying that a write-up at this late a stage in the game would be heavily proof-read by its writer. Thus, the errors must have been inserted intentionally. I do not see that as WIFOM.

[Andres]

A fair assessment, but I think I see far less WIFOM in mafia than most people. I truly do ascribe to Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is the best. It goes without saying that a write-up at this late a stage in the game would be heavily proof-read by its writer. Thus, the errors must have been inserted intentionally. I do not see that as WIFOM.

The problem with the write-ups is that we don't have to look at the living players alone, but also at the lynched ones. It's perfectly possible that the write-ups are done by a dead mafioso

[TinCow]

The problem with the write-ups is that we don't have to look at the living players alone, but also at the lynched ones. It's perfectly possible that the write-ups are done by a dead mafioso

A very good point and one I had not considered. I will think on it.

[Reenk Roink]

The problem with the write-ups is that we don't have to look at the living players alone, but also at the lynched ones. It's perfectly possible that the write-ups are done by a dead mafioso

Case in point, I gave Seamus Wanax writeups after I died (The Wanax can never die, only the different incarnations of Reenk Roink that are his medium)

[Csargo]

I think it's RR

[Andres]

I think it's Curio or Reenk.

@ GeneralHankerchief:

Which of the living players is closest to a WoG at the moment and how many more rounds of inactivity will it take before that player will be WoG'ed?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think it's Curio or Reenk.

The one thing in reenk's favor is the lackluster nature of tevash's claim. Of course it's possible that tevash improvised without reenk's help. Well, that's one reason I picked curio over reenk today.

[TinCow]

Which of the living players is closest to a WoG at the moment and how many more rounds of inactivity will it take before that player will be WoG'ed?

I think the answer is none. Everyone voted in the last lynch round.

[Andres]

The one thing in reenk's favor is the lackluster nature of tevash's claim. Of course it's possible that tevash improvised without reenk's help. Well, that's one reason I picked curio over reenk today.

Hmmm... That's a good point.

I checked the thread and Reenk posted before and after Tevashzat's 'reveal'. If Reenk would have been mafia, he would have provided his partner with a decent fake role pm.

Unvote : Reenk Roink;
Vote : Gaius Sribonious Curio

[Reenk Roink]

Vote : Reenk Roink

Ok, Mister Wanax, you have been asking for my lynching for a couple of rounds now. Please, what is your "case".

Is it better than this "Well, Andres is still alive and he has not been behaving suspicious, so it must be him!"- nonsense?

I'm geared up and ready to rumble

Vote: Andres I didn't know voting was open, but muhahaha, I can vote!

Eat that all you "Good thing Reenk can't vote guys"

I think you are guilty because intuition tells me.

Also, I get the feeling that Beefy might be Mafia, which scares me and puts me in a tough situation.

Oh, and GH, I will send different writeups if either Beefy or myself are lynched.

[Andres]

I think you are guilty because intuition tells me.

I can't defend against "intuition".

[Reenk Roink]

I can't defend against "intuition".

Then go quietly, there is a good lynch writeup for you.

Edit: I know how some of you love cases so I will indulge for a bit.

First, I can't understand the reasoning on why many think Tevash is guilty. Some considerations to take into account:

1) Nothing happened with the kill frequency when Tevash died.
2) Nobody else claimed as detective.
3) Tevash who had defending himself tooth or nail before just gave up afterwards. Sorry, but why wouldn't he try even harder after the pressure was really on him. Many gave the impression that they would remove their votes if Tevash just posted.

None of these cases are solid proof as you know. 1) could happen due to many reasons, such as the Mafia deciding to kill less or it going from 1 grunt and 1 godfather to just the godfather or the twist. 2) could be that the detective was killed early on or still lives now. 3) could be because of something coming up or just trying a new playstyle or just seeing that the end was near and giving up.

That being said, I believe it cuts at the case that Tevash was Mafia. To me it is more likely he was either really the detective or a townie just claiming to be detective to get Atpg killed.

As for me and Tevash working together, what makes you think I would WANT to make an elaborate performance as detective? Because I've done it before? Gee, that get's you far don't it? I could have easily planned this with Tevash and told him to stop posting if me and him were in cahoots.

Now on Aries, I'm no fan of the song case or write case others have brought up, but I will say that Aries has been acting differently and playing more cautiously. Are these at all reason to vote for somebody? No. Maybe Aries was sick of getting lynched early on, or maybe Aries wanted to play a new style.

In any case, I am happy that Aries and Beefy finally get to make long runs in a Mafia game. People shouldn't be lynched on reputation which has unfortunately happened too often to these gentlemen.

[Andres]

Then go quietly, there is a good lynch writeup for you.

I won't go down quietly. I'm innocent.

"Intuition", "he has not been under pressure", "he didn't act suspicious", "he's a decent writer" are not good reasons to lynch me. At least put some effort in it.

Edit: I know how some of you love cases so I will indulge for a bit.

First, I can't understand the reasoning on why many think Tevash is guilty. Some considerations to take into account:

1) Nothing happened with the kill frequency when Tevash died.
2) Nobody else claimed as detective.
3) Tevash who had defending himself tooth or nail before just gave up afterwards. Sorry, but why wouldn't he try even harder after the pressure was really on him. Many gave the impression that they would remove their votes if Tevash just posted.

None of these cases are solid proof as you know. 1) could happen due to many reasons, such as the Mafia deciding to kill less or it going from 1 grunt and 1 godfather to just the godfather or the twist. 2) could be that the detective was killed early on or still lives now. 3) could be because of something coming up or just trying a new playstyle or just seeing that the end was near and giving up.

That being said, I believe it cuts at the case that Tevash was Mafia. To me it is more likely he was either really the detective or a townie just claiming to be detective to get Atpg killed.

1) Indeed, nothing happened with the kill frequence. It was already down to one. This could mean that the mafia decided to deceive us (very unlikely to waste kills that early in the game) or that there indeed was already one grunt lynched.

Each Grunt can kill one person per night. This means that when one Grunt is executed the mafia's firepower is essentially chopped in half. As previously stated, the Godfather cannot kill unless he is the only mafioso left, in which case he can kill one person per night.

Lynch Grunt 1 (most likely Lord Winter) : mafia down to one kill
Lynch Grunt 2 (Tevashzat) : mafia still has one kill.

2) Maybe the detective was already dead and couldn't reveal ? Or it was clear that Tevashzat was getting lynched anyway and thus the detective didn't want to expose himself?

3) That's a valid point. Then again, Tevashzat hasn't posted since the 14th of February, when he "revealed" himself, so maybe he just hasn't been online since then. This however, also makes Sasaki's point about you invalid. The point was that you would have written a fake role pm for Tevash. Well maybe you did and Tevash didn't use it because he simply wasn't online.

All in all, Tevashzats' reveal had an awfull smell of scuminess on it. No role pm, no quoted night action reports. There were good reasons to lynch him and there are good reasons to assume he was scum. Your post mortem defense of Tevashzat is not a good one and it doesn't "cut the case" that he was mafia.

As for me and Tevash working together, what makes you think I would WANT to make an elaborate performance as detective? Because I've done it before? Gee, that get's you far don't it?

Not convincing. There were several possibilities, e.g. give him a fake role pm, have the third mafioso play with it and then be Tevashzat's worst adversary in the thread. Many possibilities. Anyway, I don't see why you are putting so much effort in trying to deny the assumed connection between you and Tevaszhat. You were off the hook and now you bring this up again.

I find that weird.

I could have easily planned this with Tevash and told him to stop posting if me and him were in cahoots.

Tevashzat hasn't posted since the 14th of February. It's more likely that he wasn't online because of RL. That's the most plausable explanation. I don't know what you're trying to prove with all of this though.

Now on Aries, I'm no fan of the song case or write case others have brought up, but I will say that Aries has been acting differently and playing more cautiously. Are these at all reason to vote for somebody? No. Maybe Aries was sick of getting lynched early on, or maybe Aries wanted to play a new style.

In any case, I am happy that Aries and Beefy finally get to make long runs in a Mafia game. People shouldn't be lynched on reputation which has unfortunately happened too often to these gentlemen.

And why exactly am I being lynched?

A long winded post, where you build up a defense for a lynched player, try hard to prove that there is no connection between you and said lynched player, make seemingly random remarks about Aries and Beefy187 which in itself are seeds of suspicion against those players, planted to grow.

And no decent explanation for your vote on me.

[Thermal]

In any case, I am happy that Aries and Beefy finally get to make long runs in a Mafia game.

And me!


I'm gonna do a small analysis, I've delayed it long enough, bare with me.

[Thermal]

777Ares777
-------------

Andres
posts: 90

(going on 80 posts a page)

Page 1

Andres nominates himself to be the CoP, a tad suspicious though it was in the context of a joke in appearance

Page 2

Once all hope of being nominated has gone, Andres changes his vote to Shlin28 and follows the crowd

Page 3

Points out ATPG is away in the day and here at night, coinceidentally I was after accused of being here everynight by the same person!
Votes Sasaki with terrible reasoning, Sasaki is thought to be mafia though
Disregards grammar mistakes in kill write ups as clues, this could relate to the game at the moment

Page 4

Says I ignored Sasaki's self preservation vote when I was talking about Sasaki, crossed wires
More suppodely random voting against people that didn't strike him as guilty, Indigo and Seamus, voted for seamus.
Already Andres has voted for 2 mafia suspects and kept the votes held down, looks quite townie like to me

Page 5

Nothing

Page 6

Questions Lord Winter
Votes for Sigurd because he is lurking, good reason IMO

skipped to page 11

Considers suicide through controversial players

page 12

Votes ATPG for nothing more but instinct, says tevash looks innocent

page 13

Questions Tevash, but votes for seamus again
gives me a warning, clearly a grudge against me

GAH this is going no where, I just don't see Andres as guilty, he won't get my vote for one

How the hell can ATPG stand doing all this boring analyzing?

[LittleGrizzly]

going on 80 posts a page

Wow... ATPG would be jealous...