Hoplitai and 0.2 density

[Phalanx300]

Then I gues I wont use this minomod(right?), it has way to many densities which I disagree with and alot of units not being given it who should definately have it.

I am not suggesting any going berserk. I just maintain, that to use a long sword you need a room around yourself, otherwise you will be either confined to prodding (sensless when you have a spear as well and more effective for such fight), or you will injure your buddies around you, or be unable to perform attacks and parries at all and be killed quickly. In fact, you do yourself recognize that in confined space of hoplite phalanx there is not enough room for long blades:

Yet long blades have been used in a Hoplite Phalanx in earlier times, I don't see why a looser Phalanx would be a result, it makes no sense.

Yet the Massilians do have longswords, therefore they cannot have close order phalanx at the same time in RTW engine.

Ofcourse they can, a side arm doesn't change the formation.

This is something different altogether. In real life the phalanx will be able to switch between close order and loose order - either purposefully or involuntarily due to melee. Therefore in real life it was only sensible to have a backup weapon (sword, axe, dagger, etc.) in case that things went wrong and the phalanx was broken.
However it is not happening in RTW engine (or if it does, it is buggy) and most EB hoplites are therefore represented as "spear-only" units. That is all right and they SHOULD have their spacing adjusted accordingly.
BUT for some units using those "secondary" weapons was considered so important that these were designed as "spear-and-sword" units. Now it is for these units (and most notably the Massilians) that I am arguing that making them "hoplite-phalanx-pure-and-dense" is inappropriate, because they would not be able to use their swords in a realistic manner in so dense formation.
It is a matter of balance really: making them dense would make them more effective hoplites but totally unrealistic swordsmen...

Not really, a great line of Hoplites wouldn't be able to switch between loose and close 123. The units using secondary weapons were included for the fact that they were armed special. They would be able to use longswords in a shield wall. Just look at the vikings if you don't believe me.

And Hoplites aren't intended to be used as swordsmen in the first place...

But the Greeks have a longer tradition in fighting as a phalanx, that shopuld be represented.

The Hellenes shouldn't be the only ones with a good density, thats not realistic.

No, really, we should think about that, if a Hoplit switches to sword he is no longer able to stay with his shield in the phalanx formation. He have to move his shield away to slash.

Ofcourse not! In a real Hoplite Phalanx don't think that you had room to maneuvre that much. You would have to hack at your enemy, how else would axes also be used?

[Zett]

I uploaded the EDU files (both Multiplayer and Singlerplayer) for everyone who want to try it, give me your opinion about it: link


Density Mod 0.1

Spatiatai Hoplitai 0.22
Epilektoi Hoplitai 0.22
Somatophylakes Strategou 0.22

Hoplitai 0.23
Thorakitai Hoplitai 0.23
Basilikon Agema 0.23

Hoplitai Haploi 0.25
Iphikratous Hoplitai 0.25
Triarii 0.25
Dorki Leebi-Feenikim Mookdamim 0.25
Dorki Leebi-Feenikim Meshoorianim 0.25

Syrakosioi Hoplitai 0.3
Massaliotai Hoplitai 0.3
Hypaspistai 0.3
Mishteret Izrahim Feenikim 0.3
Baktrion Agema 0.3
Indohellenikoi Eugeneis Hoplitai 0.3
Hoplitai Indohellenikoi 0.3
Hoplitai Hellenikon 0.3

Installation:

Copy the 'sp game edu backup' and the 'mp edu backup' folder in your
EB folder* and overwrite the existing edu files

*for example C:\Program Files\Activison\Rome: Total War\EB

And I guess this should be moved to 'EB Unofficial Modding Project', would be nice if a Moderater could do this

I thought about the lower density as a way to represent the hoplits in their phalanx, with phalanx I mean the Greek phalanx.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I want to represent hoplites that locked their shields together, thats why I don't want to give all Carthagian units lower density. I don't want to represent a dense formation, I want to represent the Greek Hoplite fightingstyle.

[kekailoa]

Not really, a great line of Hoplites wouldn't be able to switch between loose and close 123. The units using secondary weapons were included for the fact that they were armed special. They would be able to use longswords in a shield wall. Just look at the vikings if you don't believe me.

Actually, the vikings switched between long blades for loose combat and the shield wall seaxe for close combat. This was a trait shared with the Saxons, who they were extremely similar to in tactics on battle. They probably copied the best of each other.

Am I right?

[Phalanx300]

Then I gues all those Reenactors have it wrong.