40 lashes for 75 Year Old Woman

[Strike For The South]

Can you feel the peace on your back? I'm sure she can

Glad to see there're moving forward as a society.

[Vuk]

A society cannot move forward when an oppressive religion is holding them back. I am afraid that unless they move past islam and get rid of sharia law, things like this will continue forever.

Here is another really sad one.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

A society cannot move forward when an oppressive religion is holding them back. I am afraid that unless they move past islam and get rid of sharia law, things like this will continue forever.

Here is another really sad one.

This is also a problem in America, actually.

Islam isn't the issue, it's the jurisprudence applied, the same with Dark Age Europe or Puritan collonists.

Education and access to scripture, in its original language and form, are some of the answers to reforming a theocracy. Bemoaning the current religion is completely pointless.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I'm glad we're funding and arming these barbarians.

[rory_20_uk]

It is the interpretation of the religion, but all religions suffer from in essence being based on events hundreds of years ago, and those that are more progressive basically try to "interpret" the in many cases clear cut statements that were made: women are less than men, gays are evil, etc etc.

[LittleGrizzly]

Blanket criticism of any religion will get you nowhere... if anything such criticism makes people cling to thier religion even stronger, reform of the religion is the hope, that people will suddenly abandon religion is nothing more than an atheist fantasy.

The saudis have got to be one of our worst allies, in terms of the treatment of its own population... what should be done about saudi arabia ??

the article gives some hope though... mention of reforms near the end of the article..

[Rhyfelwyr]

This is also a problem in America, actually.

Islam isn't the issue, it's the jurisprudence applied, the same with Dark Age Europe or Puritan collonists.

Education and access to scripture, in its original language and form, are some of the answers to reforming a theocracy. Bemoaning the current religion is completely pointless.

How can you compare the Puritans to Wahhabists? They were strict and God-fearing but they never supported a theocracy in the Saudi sense (remember why they ended up in the US), and their ideals were based very much on the equality of all people (so a man can't rape a woman and the victim goes to prison). Plus any Puritan would balk at the tradition and legalism of Wahhabist practices.

And the Puritans were reformed (I don't mean Reformed, though obviously they were), because they made sure people got access to scripture.

Not a very fair comparison I think.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

How can you compare the Puritans to Wahhabists? They were strict and God-fearing but they never supported a theocracy in the Saudi sense (remember why they ended up in the US), and their ideals were based very much on the equality of all people (so a man can't rape a woman and the victim goes to prison). Plus any Puritan would balk at the tradition and legalism of Wahhabist practices.

And the Puritans were reformed (I don't mean Reformed, though obviously they were), because they made sure people got access to scripture.

Not a very fair comparison I think.

As far as I know most American Puritans could not read Latin, let alone Greek or Hebrew. So that isn't access to Scripture.

Generally speaking Puritans tended to try to derrive law and doctrine from translated scripture, often in a litteralistic way. They were fundamentalists who hung or burned witches.

I think it's quite apt.

[Meneldil]

Ow, that's not fair.

Burning witches is fun, and it makes Salem a great place.

[KukriKhan]

Questions:

Fahd told the policeman he had the right to be there, because Sawadi had breast-fed him as a baby and was therefore considered to be a son to her in Islam, according to Al-Watan. Fahd, 24, added that his friend Hadian was escorting him as he delivered bread for the elderly woman. The policeman then arrested both men.

... In his ruling, the judge said it was proved that Fahd is not Sawadi's son through breastfeeding.

1) Was the trouble with proving "son-ship" the failure in finding three male witnesses who saw the woman breastfeed the guy 24 years ago?

2) How should the delivery of the bread to the woman have gone, instead? Recruit some female member to deliver?

... court has sentenced a 75-year-old Syrian woman to 40 lashes

3) Does the lash-master have any discretion? Could he make a lash of 10 strings of nerf-balls to slide across her back 4 times? Or are lash details spelled out?

4) Does the Syrian government have any standing in the matter? Could they intervene for mercy? Will she face additional puishment there, upon deportation?

[Strike For The South]

Ow, that's not fair.

Burning witches is fun, and it makes Salem a great place.

Salem witch trials 1692

The lashing of 75 year old woman for having 2 unrelated men in her house 2009

Close.

[Aemilius Paulus]

How can you compare the Puritans to Wahhabists? They were strict and God-fearing but they never supported a theocracy in the Saudi sense (remember why they ended up in the US), and their ideals were based very much on the equality of all people (so a man can't rape a woman and the victim goes to prison). Plus any Puritan would balk at the tradition and legalism of Wahhabist practices.

And the Puritans were reformed (I don't mean Reformed, though obviously they were), because they made sure people got access to scripture.

Not a very fair comparison I think.

I do hope you are not merely bating. Because that is what seems you are exactly doing.

The two were basically perfect comparisons. Both were ultra-conservative "purist" sects who saw themselves as beacons of hope and truth among the general "sinfulness" of the society around themselves. And while 40 lashes might seem horrific (the woman may not survive) the Puritans performed witch trials and burning, something that had no chance of survival. The trials had two outcomes: death and death. Little comfort it was to know that you were innocent while suffocating.

So, heck, in this respect, the Wahhabists are better than the Puritans. At elast they have some semblence of fair trial. Exceedingly harsh, but fair in their own twisted way. Of course, the Wahhabists are also four hundred years more modern, but that is another debate. Puritans did support theocracy. The pnly reason US did not go that way because it was flooded by hundreds of thousands other immigrants. Plymouth and Mayflower were small specs of land in an ocean of immigration.

[a completely inoffensive name]

It will end sooner or later. Saudi Arabia's days like this are numbered. Oil consumption will eventually be reduced almost to zero within our lifetimes (judging no one here is over 60). Without that money that whole peninsula's economy will collapse and they will find it difficult to maintain such a tight control over their population when they have no money any more. Its all a waiting game at this point, if you want to do something after reading stories such as this, do your hardest to reduce oil consumption and promote renewable energy. Ruining them financially will do more to undermine their backward laws and society then any invasion force. Not trying to sound radical here, but it really is the easiest and most efficient way of standing up to awful regimes like this.

[Lemur]

Not in the same league, since it doesn't involve horsewhipping, but this demonstrates that irrational punishment on religious grounds is not the exclusive province of the Muslims:

Nine-year-old girl has been raped by her stepfather since she was six. Finally she gets pregnant with twins. If she attempts to carry them to term she will probably die. (The human body is amazing and flexible, but no nine-year-old girl is ready to bear twins.) Anyway, mom helps her procure an abortion. Bishop excommunicates mother and doctors, but not the girl.

Cardinal Re, who heads the Roman Catholic Church's Congregation for Bishops and the Pontifical Commission for Latin America, told La Stampa that the archbishop had been right to excommunicate the mother and doctors.

"It is a sad case but the real problem is that the twins conceived were two innocent persons, who had the right to live and could not be eliminated," he said.

"Life must always be protected, the attack on the Brazilian Church is unjustified."

Note: I am not trying to derail this into yet another abortion thread. I just wanted to point out that rigid adherence to religious dogma is a universal danger.

[Major Robert Dump]

Excommunication is a bigger deal in MTW2 than in real life. It's almost like a gift these days, now you have an excuse to change religions

[Lemur]

The Catholics I know in RL wouldn't be the least bit happy about it.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Wow, Lemur. I never thought something like this happened these days. Vatican sure tries hard to earn its bad publicity. First the Holocaust deniers and now this... There is always some sort of scandal around them.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

Excomunication is a very serious thing however:

1. It is a medicinal punishment, which should be lifted as soon as the excomunicated person makes reparation and seeks Absolution.

2. It does not prevent the administering of Extreme Unction, so that the penitant's soul is not placed in peril.

So, MRD, not a reason to change religion.

As usual, however, the British press presents this as some great cursing and casting out.

[KukriKhan]

I've been technically excommunicated since 1972.

The pope answers none of my letters.

I'm crushed.

(and damned?)

[Lemur]

I've been technically excommunicated since 1972.

Is that like being a little bit pregnant?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I've been technically excommunicated since 1972.

The pope answers none of my letters.

I'm crushed.

(and damned?)

Uh really?

As I understand it (and that's not fully) you aren't damned, unless you've been convicted of heresy.

[KukriKhan]

Is that like being a little bit pregnant?

I guess so. The facts remain static, but the judgment prevails.

I am doomed to hllfire. No one should listen to me.

[LittleGrizzly]

The cat was dead anyway so i may as well ask... why ?

Incase you didn't guess that is directed at Kurki's excommunication...

[KukriKhan]

The cat was dead anyway so i may as well ask... why ?

Incase you didn't guess that is directed at Kurki's excommunication...

Married outside the Church (a Dutch Reformed girl), then (gasp!) divorced, then married again outside the Church (a Baptist), then divorced, then married a reformed Morman girl - all whilst professing a dis-inclination to believe a need for Savior-ism, in writing, to Rome.

Either I am :a:an excommunicated fornicating apostate, or :b:an insignificant single dude who has never been officially married. Rome says :a:, sez Padre Julio, my local priest (and I agree).

Weird how ex-commun-ication happens more on married stuff than theological stuff, huh?

[Crazed Rabbit]

As far as I know most American Puritans could not read Latin, let alone Greek or Hebrew. So that isn't access to Scripture.

I rather think you're mistaken. The Puritans used English bibles (Geneva and King James Version), of course, because Latin was the language of the Roman Catholic Church. You have heard of the big protestant religious struggle, right? The Reformation?

Generally speaking Puritans tended to try to derrive law and doctrine from translated scripture, often in a litteralistic way. They were fundamentalists who hung or burned witches.

I think it's quite apt.

Really? How often did they do that?

Now, in your first post you said:

This is also a problem in America, actually.

Which of course it is not and has never been on the same scale as Saudi Arabia and only existed as a small problem before America, as a country, was ever formed! That statement is completely wrong.

Not in the same league, since it doesn't involve horsewhipping,

Or any physical punishment at all. It doesn't deserve mentioning in the same thread.

This isn't a barbaric punishment; that's an insult to barbarians. It's an inhuman punishment, for both the woman and the men.

CR

[Diana Abnoba]

I think that it is disgusting. Why? They were not doing anything wrong. But a very strict, rigid, and insane interpretation of scriptures, which most sane people seem to think are open to more liberal interpretation, has led people to override their own judgment and minds, and conform to authoritarianism.

Blind following of any sort of rule negates the possibility of morality.

[CountArach]

Disgusting. Utterly disgusting and morally unjustifiable.

[Major Robert Dump]

The Catholics I know in RL wouldn't be the least bit happy about it.

well they didn't find dead babies buried in their church basement I'm sure. Not yet, at least.

[Fragony]

It's culture, they have it, you just got to respect that. If anything imho this calls for intercultural dialogue, we can really learn from eachother.

[Xiahou]

Married outside the Church (a Dutch Reformed girl), then (gasp!) divorced, then married again outside the Church (a Baptist), then divorced, then married a reformed Morman girl - all whilst professing a dis-inclination to believe a need for Savior-ism, in writing, to Rome.

Either I am :a:an excommunicated fornicating apostate, or :b:an insignificant single dude who has never been officially married. Rome says :a:, sez Padre Julio, my local priest (and I agree).

Weird how ex-commun-ication happens more on married stuff than theological stuff, huh?

What did they send you a letter? I don't know all the rules, but marriages to non-Catholics are often considered non-sacramental in nature. You can't receive the sacrament of marriage more than once(unless a spouse dies), but if you never received it in the first place....

I guess, I'm just wondering how you know that you're excommunicated....