Horse archers : oh, come on...

[quadalpha]

Instead they chose deliberately to target a market with people like me in it

That was their first mistake.

Most of the time my ranged cavalry are set to skirmish and do a nice job of luring one wing of the enemy to the other edge of the map (where they get slaughtered unless I remember to move them).

[andrewt]

I'm not even bothering with that at the minute, massed sword weilding mobs is the way to go for me.

Just form them in big columns and gank everything that moves.

European armies don't have those. =/

I guess line infantry with socket bayonets could do, however.

[Mystiqblackcat]

I realize that, however for me it most often happens to cavalry running around. And it makes sense : if one guy in a marching line battalion gets separated from the pack, he can race and catch up. But a straggler can't run up to an already running unit.

Also, horses really, really have trouble with walls if they don't happen onto them at a perfect 90° angle, and when I'm micro-ing 3 or 4 units of HAs at a time and trying to anticipate the instant the AI unit will volley to move them back just before that, I don't have much time to babysit each...

And Mystiqblackcat, I realize muskets aren't as precise as bows, but I'm not asking for mounted snipers. They can be as inaccurate as blind mice if they want, as long as they fire on the damn move !

I want to apologize ahead of time if I sound condescending, I do not mean to if I am. A buddy of mine said I was coming off that way and I really just trying to be helpful.

I understand your frustrations, I really do. I am just a very patient person so I over look the pathing problems. I am still looking for new ways to use them effectively. Recently I fought a large action as post revolution France against the Dutch I believe. In any case I used two squads of Carabineers to ride around to the side of the Dutch line who outnumbered me ~1000 to ~750 after battle was joined and had them let loose a couple volleys on their left which helped it to rout allowing me to roll up my right and subsequently helped me win the engagement. The Dutch did send a reserve regiment of foot toward my Light Dragoons but they easily outpaced them and drew them away from the main battle.

Try using them purely as flankers. They aren't good skirmishers because they reload slow and don't have alot of range like light infantry. Use them to attack from unsuspecting angles or to harass lone enemy units. They are great for killing enemy Generals, just ride around to the rear, form up and let loose a few volleys until the bodygaurd starts to move, then retreat and try again after they have reloaded.

Firing a musket while riding a horse would seem to be pretty difficult, and reloading would be impossible. To be fair, I've never fired a musket but I have used a modern black powder rifle which would be easier to fire and reload than an 18th century musket on a moving horse and it still seems like an impossible task. Plus accuracy would greatly suffer if firing on the move, so much so that all you would get for your trouble was alot of noise and smoke but nothing terribly dangerous.

[Feanaro]

They are great for killing enemy Generals, just ride around to the rear, form up and let loose a few volleys until the bodygaurd starts to move, then retreat and try again after they have reloaded.

There's the rub. I can't get Light Dragoons, Camel Gunners, and the like to reload on horseback for love or money. They absolutely refuse to reload unless there is an enemy in range and they are either ordered to shoot at them or have fire at will turned on.

[Didz]

European armies don't have those. =/

I guess line infantry with socket bayonets could do, however.

One of the things that has impressed me as I've been playing my Ottoman Campaign is the way the technolgy advances affect the face of battle.

My original tactic of massed Jannissary columns has allowed me to dominate the battlefield for about the first 10 years of the campaign. The only thing the Russian's could do to counter them was field more and more cavalry and even that didn't have much effect even though I couldn't form square.

However, a year or so ago a sneaky Russian scholar stole my knowledge of the socket bayonet, and that has actually begun to turn the tables. My Jannissaries still come out top in most fights, but the level of casualties is mounting, and its not unusual now to find Jannisary regiments reduced to 20/120 by the end of a battle.

At the same time my infantry now have socket bayonets too, so they can hold up better themselves in a melee, plus they now have the ability to form square against the Russian horse which the Janissaries can't do.

So, I'm beginning to see that I need to evolve my tactic's now, especially with Jannissary musketeers appearing in the resource pool. Plus....at last....I'm beginning to get some decent cavalry so the old massed swordsmen days are now in decline and Jannissary swordmen regiments are not being replaced if they are lost.

The next big innovation will probably be explosive shells as I'm assuming that high trajectory artillery like mortars might be more useful and less suicidal that cannon as their missiles ought to miss most of the intervening troops even if they do decide to fire.

[Didz]

Sorry mispost.

[Kobal2fr]

Try using them purely as flankers. They aren't good skirmishers because they reload slow and don't have alot of range like light infantry. Use them to attack from unsuspecting angles or to harass lone enemy units. They are great for killing enemy Generals, just ride around to the rear, form up and let loose a few volleys until the bodygaurd starts to move, then retreat and try again after they have reloaded.

Yeah, that's what I've started doing, and it does work better than using them like in the previous games, as a sort of pre-battle skirmish. This time around, this tactic doesn't work and you really have to wait until the battle proper has begun and both lines are merrily shooting each other at point blank to send the HAs around. Pity. Not sure they're pulling their weight in upkeep that way, but then again as the Russians your line infantry has the properties of a vacuum, so they need all the help they can get

Plus accuracy would greatly suffer if firing on the move, so much so that all you would get for your trouble was alot of noise and smoke but nothing terribly dangerous.

Which is all I'd ask for, really. Unless you use a whole lot of them (something I simply can't do, I get overwhelmed trying to get all of them out of harm's way), HAs aren't killers, but their mere presence round the back and the woosh woosh of arrows (or, as the case may be, bullets) coming from the back does wonders on enemy morale.
What I hoped for (and was used to) was a quick run up to them, volley, then split up and move to the flanks in a Y, running like hell at the first sign of serious trouble or, god forbid, if archers stop moving. That way, their foot troops entered the fray with lower morale and maybe even tired already if they foolishly tried to run after the horsemen.

This doesn't work in Empire. At all.

[Mystiqblackcat]

There's the rub. I can't get Light Dragoons, Camel Gunners, and the like to reload on horseback for love or money. They absolutely refuse to reload unless there is an enemy in range and they are either ordered to shoot at them or have fire at will turned on.

I haven't tested it out to check it but that is an annoying bug. I understand not reloading when on the move, but they definitely should reload if they are standing around idly.

[Didz]

I'll have to test the mounted reload thing, however, I know for a fact that my Ottoman infantry skirmishers reload when idle because I used that trait to good effect to massacre a whole Cossack regiment using 'shoot and scoot' tactic's. A lot of micro-management that should have been done automatically by the skirmish button but nevertheless it did work.

[Feanaro]

I'll have to test the mounted reload thing, however, I know for a fact that my Ottoman infantry skirmishers reload when idle because I used that trait to good effect to massacre a whole Cossack regiment using 'shoot and scoot' tactic's. A lot of micro-management that should have been done automatically by the skirmish button but nevertheless it did work.

I have no issues with foot skirmishers. It's just mounted troops with muskets. It's especially frustrating with units like Camel Gunners, who have a reload skill of FIVE. Unless the enemy sits still, they are basically one shot ponies... errr, camels.

[antisocialmunky]

Does anyone else think the mounted reloading animation looks funny for carbineless units because more often than not they are rubbing their guns quite vigorously?

[Feanaro]

"A man gets... lonely out in the desert..."

[andrewt]

One of the things that has impressed me as I've been playing my Ottoman Campaign is the way the technolgy advances affect the face of battle.

My original tactic of massed Jannissary columns has allowed me to dominate the battlefield for about the first 10 years of the campaign. The only thing the Russian's could do to counter them was field more and more cavalry and even that didn't have much effect even though I couldn't form square.

However, a year or so ago a sneaky Russian scholar stole my knowledge of the socket bayonet, and that has actually begun to turn the tables. My Jannissaries still come out top in most fights, but the level of casualties is mounting, and its not unusual now to find Jannisary regiments reduced to 20/120 by the end of a battle.

At the same time my infantry now have socket bayonets too, so they can hold up better themselves in a melee, plus they now have the ability to form square against the Russian horse which the Janissaries can't do.

So, I'm beginning to see that I need to evolve my tactic's now, especially with Jannissary musketeers appearing in the resource pool. Plus....at last....I'm beginning to get some decent cavalry so the old massed swordsmen days are now in decline and Jannissary swordmen regiments are not being replaced if they are lost.

The next big innovation will probably be explosive shells as I'm assuming that high trajectory artillery like mortars might be more useful and less suicidal that cannon as their missiles ought to miss most of the intervening troops even if they do decide to fire.

Yes, that's what I like about ETW. Unfortunately, I played UP and didn't get a second college until almost 30 years in.

Honestly, artillery sucks until you get the upgrades at the bottom. Howitzers are definitely a step up against troops since you can put them in the back and better protect them. Explosive shells don't do it for me since they explode too early too often. Carcass shot wasn't lethal enough, either. Quicklime is pretty decent when you're hitting a mass of enemy troops but even then, the killing power really isn't there. Shrapnel shot is ok but only the more vulnerable cannons can use them and they get easily blocked by things such as sandbags. Horse artillery isn't that great as limbering/unlimbering is too clunky and the AI's cavalry kamikaze tactic is too effective against artillery in general. Even if you manage to repel them, too many are dead, and the horses have all ran off the battlefield, making limbering not an option anymore. I still have 2 upgrades left, I think, so those might change my opinion.

Same with the firing tech advances. Fire by rank is better at causing morale drops, not sure if it improves rate of fire or killing power compared to the normal one. I think it does, but can't be sure. It seems kinda buggy, however. I've had problems firing from cover ever since getting fire by rank. It seems if the entire rank can't fire, they won't bother firing from cover at all. I don't have much experience with platoon firing yet. It does seem to improve rate of fire but UP is limited to grenadiers (too small to really be effective) and guards (only 6 guards available at any time).

I didn't bother researching improved carbines until late because I've been underwhelmed by them. I guess using them as flankers would work better, but it takes too much micromanagement. Dismounting them after flanking would probably be better. I haven't used cavalry much. Then again, the Dutch roster is pretty crappy.

[IlDuce]

About the explosive shot, wait until you get the percussion caps I think it is. Last or second to last on the artillery tech tree. No more exploding in mid air. With 3 large mortars I can normally get 3 or 4 enemy units to rout before they come in range. And even when they are shooting it out with my line the fact they fire over the top means no friendly casualties, or a lot less.

[ROFLMAO]

You gotta problem with horse archers, son?