Should we prevent suicide attempts?

[pevergreen]

Suicide is a very selfish shortsighted irrational action. Often people who commit suicide in the western world live comfortably with working limbs and senses. These blessings in and of themselves should have you on your knees and thanking God.

Contrary to belief there is someone who loves and cares about you. That person or persons will never understand why you did something so selfish.

So yes, suicide should be discouraged and you should intervene. Why you would sit there and watch as a human wastes into oblivion is completely beyond me.

+1

great post

The last third of it is good, but as I've said, those things simply don't come into the mind of a person in that condition.

Lets say your brother dies, of natural causes. You are understandably upset. What if someone says that you should be thankful he died peacefully, and that he wasnt shot to death, nor were you.

Your sad. Sadness keeps things out of your mind.

The only other thing I can think of is reading a book. You may know the words you need are in this paragraph, you're reading them, but you are just not with it and you just keep reading. You're reading it, but you don't realise it.


Not great examples, but its the best I can do at work.

[Ice]

The last third of it is good, but as I've said, those things simply don't come into the mind of a person in that condition.

Yes they do. I've talked to a few friends who have contemplated suicide, and they all said their loved ones kept them alive.

Edit:

The only absolute reason that would ever stop myself from committing suicide, would be my family. I would damage them beyond all belief if I killed myself.

[pevergreen]

Yes they do. I've talked to a few friends who have contemplated suicide, and they all said their loved ones kept them alive.

The only experience I can go off is my own and that of my ex gf's.

[LittleGrizzly]

TBH i saw suicide as pretty much worry free one of the attractions... maybe im just selfish but it wouldn't be a deciding factor...

Though i have no dependents if i did... it might be different...

Saddness is all a matter of perception. A 17 year old offing themselves is completly and utterly selfish , to there mum, dad and family.

Im sure some 17 year old have pretty crappy lives, with no hope for improvment... they may be wrong about there being no hope but is it really that selfish for someone to remove themselves from a horrible place becase they cant take it anymore and see no escape...

[NagatsukaShumi]

When I was ill last year (I had an ear infection that ravaged my sense, which made me feel like nothing was real, plus I couldn't feel anything at time, I couldn't do anything, even breathing was hard thanks to a crippling mental decline) and honestyl wanted to die, not to kil lmyself, but to not wake up.

I can see why people think it, but it depends on each case, the illness made me feel that way, so no pep talk would work because it'd not cure me.

I am very sad to find somebody here wanted to kill themselves, glad it worked out for the best.

[LittleGrizzly]

BTW i think people are strawmaning the front room guy, i think the x box was more of a last straw than the main reason he was doing it...

I think people need to consider the problems more, mental issues i think is a fairly straightforward one... as in a portion of it may be more down to thier mental state rather than personal issues... though im guessing it would usually be a mix of both in thier cases...

The harder one to think on is those who commit suicide without mental issues playing a factor...

I can understand this one somewhat having thought about it myself...

One of the main things is a lack of hope... thats the real big killer, life feels crap now... but it is only going to get worse from now on... whether its true or not the lack of hope is the biggest part. If you have nothing to look forward to but plenty of things to dread then just opting out of life seems the sensible option... dread, worries and all problems are gone...

Sure it means you miss out on any good stuff but usually there isn't a whole lot good in that persons life and they only expect things to get worse... so with a look at the pros and cons of thier life and how that will adjust in the future they get to the conclusion that it really isn't worth it...

[Fragony]

BTW i think people are strawmaning the front room guy, i think the x box was more of a last straw than the main reason he was doing it...

Yes. And I don't really appreciate it being dragged into the discussion in such a way, very thoughtless considering how recent that topic is.

[rajpoot]

I think the point's already been mentioned, but I think it's all a matter of personal choice and point of view.....I mean a normal person will never be happy killing people, a sadist on the other hand likes causing pain, which to a normal people seems wrong.
Similarly while we might find life good and nice, another chap might find that life for him sucks. Maybe it's because he's young and he hasn't seen enough to learn that things get better when we work at them, and that darkness never lasts, maybe he does not know ideas we take for granted, and so with his limited knowledge he decides it's better to die than live.
Now, he thinks it's right, what we think is wrong.......he'll be happy doing it, even if we might not be. So the question is, can we convince that chap to see our point of view? Can we make him realize that life's worth living.....it's not always easy.....and anyway, who says we're right and he's wrong? Maybe it's we who're wrong and he's got it right, that life after death is going to be rosier. I mean, the chap next door who says he saw aliens outside the city, might just be right.....we can't claim to be right on everything because we're humans and we all are biased in one way or the other, we are all biased.
So the only legitimate reason we have to stop the suicidal person is that those around him might want him to live.....those who love him might want him to live. In that case, we're stopping him not because we want him to live, but because we want the people who want him to live to be happy....so this time, infact he's doing a favor to others by living, in a sense.

That all aside, I'm not supporting suicide. For one, even if life sucks, even if you know things are down, and will only get worse, even then, suicide is running away. It's like giving up. It's like being in the torture chamber, and spilling everything out, giving up........and even if a chap does not have the courage to keep living for himself, then any decent person must face the world for those who love him. Live for them then. You have nothing to do, you were going to end it all, so insted of taking that final break, you toil some more for those who love you......that's it.

(Edit: Again, someone might think that running away when the going gets too tough to handle is fine, so........)

The only kind of 'suicide' that is acceptable to the civilized people, I think, is the kind they have in the old stories. Great people finish of all they came to do on Earth, and have nothing more left to do, and so, wrapping it all up, they discard their bodies. It sounds cooler too.

[Craterus]

Simply put: No. Offer people a way out (a way down for a guy on a bridge) but don't actively prevent them from killing themselves. The right to one's own life always seemed like a clear-cut thing to me. I doubt many here would disagree that people have the right to live their lives how they please (within the law) and why should this be any different?

As for this so-called selfish issue. It's no more selfish than these so-called 'loved ones' demanding that someone be kept alive when they no longer want to be. Maybe someone picked up on this hypocrisy - I didn't read the whole thread - but I find it unbelievable the number of people that condemn suicidal cases on account of being selfish. You think they're living their lives for you?

[Strike For The South]

The last third of it is good, but as I've said, those things simply don't come into the mind of a person in that condition.

Lets say your brother dies, of natural causes. You are understandably upset. What if someone says that you should be thankful he died peacefully, and that he wasnt shot to death, nor were you.

Your sad. Sadness keeps things out of your mind.

The only other thing I can think of is reading a book. You may know the words you need are in this paragraph, you're reading them, but you are just not with it and you just keep reading. You're reading it, but you don't realise it.


Not great examples, but its the best I can do at work.

I would say that person needs to learn tact.


You have to show them you love them. You have to look in there ears and bear your soul. Doing it over the phone or facebook simply won't cut it. Make sure they know killing themselves would be like killing you.

I was speaking more of the younger demographic, old people are completely different.

I would like to disagree with this notion that suicide is selfish... often people who kill themselves do it partially for others benefit as well as thier own...

Well some of them can be based off selfless thinking... others i think people have the right to be as damn selfish as they want, it is them that has to go through thier sad lives everyday... not thier parents, friends or sibllings... so the decision should rest on thier personal feelings and not the potential reactions to thier loved ones...

Saddness is all a matter of perception. A 17 year old offing themselves is completly and utterly selfish , to there mum, dad and family. Not to mention there future spouse and children or people they will meet later on.

This whole "Oh woe is me" thing is a pile of bull. As is "no one understands" There is someone somewhere going through something much worse and there doing it with a smile on there face.

Now if you'll excuse me I must get off my high horse

[pevergreen]

I would say that person needs to learn tact.


You have to show them you love them. You have to look in there ears and bear your soul. Doing it over the phone or facebook simply won't cut it. Make sure they know killing themselves would be like killing you.

I was speaking more of the younger demographic, old people are completely different.



Saddness is all a matter of perception. A 17 year old offing themselves is completly and utterly selfish , to there mum, dad and family. Not to mention there future spouse and children or people they will meet later on.

This whole "Oh woe is me" thing is a pile of bull. As is "no one understands" There is someone somewhere going through something much worse and there doing it with a smile on there face.

Now if you'll excuse me I must get off my high horse

I did everything I could and more. Theres a thread a few pages back in this backroom. That was kind of a log of what was happening.

I don't believe I can change your view, so I'm not going to try.

edit: its on page 20. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...2&postcount=14

Imagine yourself at your happiest (not pleasured, happiest).

In your daily life you are fit, have had plenty of sleep, are exercising regularly. You feel that what you do is important, that you contribute to your life, family and society. You move through each day with a purpose. You don't run or strut you glide and glow so brightly that you seem to be smiling even when you aren't. You have so many options and things to do and at the same time you know which needs to be done first, and then second and then third... You are a dynamo of happiness and motivation.

Now turn that upside down and inside out and you have depression. Depressed you can't see any options, there is no way out, it is black and you are at the bottom of a well in which you can't see any way out. You are so scared that nothing can get better that nothing must be better then here and now. You fear the blankness so much that eternal death looks a much rosier option. No known options in life remain, but there is the unknown option of death.

Thats a lot better than I can do.

[Lord Winter]

Saddness is all a matter of perception. A 17 year old offing themselves is completly and utterly selfish , to there mum, dad and family. Not to mention there future spouse and children or people they will meet later on.

This whole "Oh woe is me" thing is a pile of bull. As is "no one understands" There is someone somewhere going through something much worse and there doing it with a smile on there face.

Now if you'll excuse me I must get off my high horse

Your strawmanning depression. Not all cases of depression equals angsty emos.

[Samurai Waki]

Strike,
You have to understand that people do radical things when put into stressful situations. Its not a matter of "woe is me" or "people don't understand me" its usually more just complete perceptual obliviousness to the world that surrounds you. Suicide isn't the only case where people do fatal harm to themselves, you could go so far as to say that Murdering somebody would fall right along into the same category, only suicide is internalized where murder is externalized, and I hate to say it but nearly everybody can be pushed to the point of murder no matter what class, country, or lifestyle the person belongs to. You might ask yourself this question, am I a person who kills myself? or kills other people? If you don't fall into either category, there may be something very wrong...or very right.
Besides the point, the vast majority of people who do kill themselves are suffering from debilitating mental neurosis, or perhaps thats how they perceive it. How you perceive, or anyone else just doesn't matter to them. Likewise, the vast majority of murderers are also people who suffer from debilitating mental neurosis, of course you would have to get off of your "high horse" in order to understand that these chemical imbalances in people's brains aren't what defines them, because you are composed of the same chemicals, its just theirs aren't balanced whereas yours is, which is only to mean that they're a fraction more likely to carry out such acts as anyone else who doesn't have a mental neurosis.

Cheers

[Fixiwee]

Your strawmanning depression. Not all cases of depression equals angsty emos.

Depression does not have anything to do with being emo. Not necesserely.
Having depression means you are unable to make decissions. This can be tough choices like choosing a job or simple matter like going shopping or not.
Ofc this problems often lead to difficulties regarding people you know, hence emo.

Anyway. I'm on the "give everyone a free choice to kill him self." I am acutally living up to that. A good friend I lived with for 3 years told me he might kill himself and I said fine, I'm not gonna stop you. After all that guy is not the angsty "I need help" kinda guy but the one who simply vanishes one day.
I hope I can at least say goodbye to him if he ever does it.

On the other I see no rush in killing oneself. Everyone will have its day to die. Why the rush?

[rory_20_uk]

Depression does not have anything to do with being emo. Not necesserely.
Having depression means you are unable to make decissions. This can be tough choices like choosing a job or simple matter like going shopping or not.

Utter rubbish.

Depression has nothing to do with the ability to make decisions. Some depressed people are able to do so, others not. Link

[Fixiwee]

Utter rubbish.

Depression has nothing to do with the ability to make decisions. Some depressed people are able to do so, others not. Link

I was merley pointing out that depression has nothing to do with being an emo. I was a bit unspecific maybe, because I spoke out of personal expirience and not of scholastic knowledge. Friend of mine has diagnosis of depression and she is unable to make any decisions.

Unspecific yes. But not "utter rubbish".

[rory_20_uk]

Sorry, family and work stress might be making me less tolerant than normal...