The fight for Inishmore [Concluded]

[ULC]

I checked, you weren't in that game. I messed with the town after I was dead. Got Chaotix to basically get himself lynched, and YLC nearly did the same thing after listening to me. Everything a dead mafioso says is WIFOM.... it's not always what you think it is. Sure, Andres is saying Grizz is guilty so that you assume he's using reverse psychology. But he also assumes you're smart enough to assume that, and so on.

I realize my saying this will not even make you budge. So I will use reverse psychology to "make you keep your vote on him."

LittleGrizzly is guilty... lynch him.

Hey, I can conclusively say I knew Reenk reveal was false - However, my strategy for insuring the town would believe me flopped, horribly. It was the only game I felt slightly bitter about after the end.

Why would an innocent townie feel the need to use reverse psychology?

Yes, because innocence is your middle name.

Seriously, we have a 9 players left, with 4 mafia - it's extremely unlikely we will lynch a townie.

4 Townies
4 Mafia
1 Neutral Role

Look at that.

I'd like to ask, look at who is still alive, and their status.

ATPG - has been active all game, under constant suspicion, and has done his own independant work (whther he was right or wrong). Cannot be English mafia, since he was after Ituralde and did everything he could to be lynched even while others ignored his case for the most part, and if he was, there was no need for it. Possible Irish mafia, will look into it more.

Seireikhaan - The neutral role. His name is not English, this excludes him from being English mafia. He was attacked by the Irish mafia - if Godfather's can survive one night kill, this makes no sense. It exposes the Godfather meaning the English know where their target is - simply put, it's a stupid move.

Sasaki - He's not dead yet. That doesn't make him suspicious by itself, but say, if he was actually on the right track, the mafia would remove him. Sasaki can swing people with his vote - remove that vote, and Sasaki becomes less potent and less convincing, which is good for the mafia despite possible blame shifting to them. One might say that makes him good lynch bait, but we have two families, meaning that you simply can't take that risk since the other mafia will only be to happy to jump onbaord as a voting block - to retaliate would be to reveal to much. Plus, Sasaki, the whole game, has never been good lynch bait, until now.

Boudica - Essentially lurked the whole game, gave poor reasoning for most of her votes, used poor logic to essentially keep herself alive. Sasaki has always done a good job of saying to ATPG "Hey, yea, she such a good suspect...but, look, there is this other guy, and he a tad shadier...trust me", constantly being loud enough to pull ATPG away. Boudica is also using Psycho mafia as an excuse, when the game ended the 26th (if she was following along the whole time - otherwise, her participation should have spiked the 10th, when she was lynched ), yet, she only suddenly became active today, when the game is on the line...how..interesting...yes. It does not take 5 days to catch up on a game, it takes hours. I read through the entire Midgard threads, both of them, in one day, while still doing other things, such as school work. Not a good excuse.

El Diablo - Has basically avoided the WoG (not very well), thats his major contribution. Mostly likely townie, since thats how ED behaves if roleless, also, mafia in a setup like this avoid Wog bait like the devil, since their kills need to count. Better to try and get the town to "lynch the lurker" during the day.

LittleGrizzly - I have actually ignored the bantering going back and forth between him and Sasaki. The issue is, LG responses are intune with how he is each game he plays - he is an easy target for an inquisition by someone like Sasaki. He is naturally defensive, refines his responses in an attempt to be clearer each time, has a tendency not to check up on his facts, and is mostly reactive - thats not Godfather material or behavior, especially for this long. The only reason the mafia would keep him alive is as lynch bait, some way for the town to waste their votes, since killing him removes his purpose - to hide behind. Godfathers need to check their facts, and be able to present their case in a good way when questioned - a less then solid defense makes them, and their team, vulnerable to the town and the other mafia. The very reasons Sasaki has been touting as reasons to lynch LG are the very reasons he is not what Sasaki says he is (nor Andres).

Lord Winter - Read El Diablo - however, it has been put forth LW could and can write the Oswald write ups, so that is something to think about. I will say LW did vote just like boudica - voting for the dead . Lord Winter needs questioned, but he is "never around" to be questioned, just as he is barely around to stay away from the wog and cast a useless vote.

Diana Abnoba - Um...we have a new player stil alive? How o.O!? Either she is more then what she appears, or the mafia skip over he because she isn't threatening to them. But, as a townie vote that generally goes along with ATPG, that makes me wonder...

GeneralHanckerchief - Sorry to forget about you , be nice. GH has, for the most part, given off almost no mafia vibes. However, he has posted carefully, and conscisly, and has worked with the detective. If he is a Godfather, this is an excellent postion, since it allows him to find the other mafia group. Since he comes off as innocent, he could at the very least try to pass himself off as a townie. Having come out and accused WE of being possible scum, one might look at it as if GH is putting himself out their a bit to much.

[seireikhaan]

Good grief people, some folks need some sleep.

Anyways, yes, I am Heilyn. I challenge you to find an englishman named Heilyn. You won't. That's because I'm just a Welsh champ who got caught in the crossfire, like you. I'm just looking to get outta this hellhole of Inishmore.

Death: Diana
Vote: Boudica

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok.

You are claiming to be neutral, then? What are your victory conditions?

[seireikhaan]

Living. Don't matter who else wins, as long as I'm alive.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Abilities, if any?

And I looked up your name, after I read the writeup. It is a Welsh name.

[seireikhaan]

You just saw it used.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, murder immune, and nothing else?

No small wonder you've been quiet all game. Your story checks out.

[Reenk Roink]

First, a well executed reveal Seamus!

Now then, the fact that Seamus was killed strongly suggests a grunt is still out there (although who really knows, the position of Mafia causes people to do silly things).

This is what should happen. We need a three way tie between Atpg, GH, and boudica. Hopefully our lord and master pevergreen kills them all.

Next up is Sasaki and LG, maybe throwing in another guy, don't know. Shinseikhaan will probably die so that is good.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Living. Don't matter who else wins, as long as I'm alive.

Role pm?

I saw that your name was welsh...but the nightkill immunity was quite interesting, and the welsh are british I believe.

Now that khaan has claimed the "other" role, if anyone else out there has it, step forward.

[Andres]

Role pm?

I saw that your name was welsh...but the nightkill immunity was quite interesting, and the welsh are british I believe.

Now that khaan has claimed the "other" role, if anyone else out there has it, step forward.

If I weren't dead, I'd step forward, but alas, I'm trapped in this coffin.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The one thing I learned from Capo II is not to trust the multiple lynch. Somebody will always come around to screw it up... as myself, Sasaki, and Andres can all attest to.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

....and the welsh are british I believe.

Sasaki:

We need to get you over to Harlech. I want you to say that phrase out loud some Friday evening in one of the local pubs down near the water.

But give us a few minutes to get bets down on how far you get from where you say that line to the door before you get clobbered.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Just completed my scan of the thread.

Overall, I am not happy.

Either we have an elaborate double blind by Pizza and Diana -- which seems unlikely -- or we have a sort of collective "sour grapes" non finish. Perhaps I am mis-interpreting as I did read quickly.

Andres never stopped playing to win, acknowledging his death as an inconvenience and moving forward. He was hammering at the other mafia, hoping that by taking them out relatively quickly, his team would still be in a position to try for the win. Kudos to him.

In the hope that this IS an elaborate attempt at double blind tomfoolery....

Remaining Players:

Askthepizzaguy- claims mafia grunt
LittleGrizzly- investigated as "innocent"
GeneralHankerchief- investigated as "innocent"
Sasaki Kojiro- no inv data
Lord Winter- no inv data
'khaan- Heilyn, immune to (at least) one night kill
Diana Abnoba- outed as mafia GF, confirmed claim
boudica- investigated as "innocent"
El Diablo- investigated as "innocent"

By my count, we have 4 mafiosi remaining, 1 "neutral" and 4 townies.

lyncing ANYONE save 'khaan gives the town one chance in 4 of killing a GF and a 50/50 shot at killing some mafioso. This is important as the town has little in the way of numbers.

I cannot concieve of any reason why pizza would claim mafioso status unless he were, so I would -- if I could -- vote: pizza.

My other sneaking suspicions were Sasaki (no results due to death) and Winter, with Winter 3rd on the sasaki, pizza, winter list in my head.

I would argue AGAINST ties and in favor of one person being lynched -- pizza -- in order to force the mafia numbers down.

I dislike the live/die vote thing as a tool. Obviously, based on her admission (real or not) the tactically correct vote is for death. Let me stress again, I do NOT like or even completely understand the sidebar vote.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki - He's not dead yet. That doesn't make him suspicious by itself, but say, if he was actually on the right track, the mafia would remove him. Sasaki can swing people with his vote - remove that vote, and Sasaki becomes less potent and less convincing, which is good for the mafia despite possible blame shifting to them. One might say that makes him good lynch bait, but we have two families, meaning that you simply can't take that risk since the other mafia will only be to happy to jump onbaord as a voting block - to retaliate would be to reveal to much. Plus, Sasaki, the whole game, has never been good lynch bait, until now.

In the past, I've always been left alive because when we get to endgame, people will say "sasaki could be fooling us!". Also, killing me confirms my innocence.

LittleGrizzly - I have actually ignored the bantering going back and forth between him and Sasaki. The issue is, LG responses are intune with how he is each game he plays - he is an easy target for an inquisition by someone like Sasaki. He is naturally defensive, refines his responses in an attempt to be clearer each time, has a tendency not to check up on his facts, and is mostly reactive - thats not Godfather material or behavior, especially for this long. The only reason the mafia would keep him alive is as lynch bait, some way for the town to waste their votes, since killing him removes his purpose - to hide behind. Godfathers need to check their facts, and be able to present their case in a good way when questioned - a less then solid defense makes them, and their team, vulnerable to the town and the other mafia. The very reasons Sasaki has been touting as reasons to lynch LG are the very reasons he is not what Sasaki says he is (nor Andres).

I'm interested in what you have to say on this, because it is possible I became blinded. Do you have a specific game you're thinking of that LG responded in a naturally defensive way, with refining and lack of fact checking etc?

[ULC]

In the past, I've always been left alive because when we get to endgame, people will say "sasaki could be fooling us!". Also, killing me confirms my innocence.

Hmm, I haven't looked to hard at your past games, and as I said, it does not make you suspicious in of it's self. However, you hammered day in and day out about LG, reducing the need to keep you alive. The only people who need scream "he's fooling us!" are mafia at this point, but to do so makes one vulnerable and is a weak ploy. An innocent Sasaki at the end has a stronger vote and stronger ability to sway votes, and thus it's making me interested why you are still alive.

I'm interested in what you have to say on this, because it is possible I became blinded. Do you have a specific game you're thinking of that LG responded in a naturally defensive way, with refining and lack of fact checking etc?

A specific game? No, not off the top of my head, but everygame I've ever played with or read about him, he acts extremely defensive. maybe I am wrong here, I'll go look up each and every game he was in (he was in your Kung Fu mafia, correct?), and get back to you. But that is how I view him as of now.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

More an pizzaguy.

Very nicely done Sasaki. I loved how nice you were to me all game to gain my favor. Should I reveal all your lovely PMs to me? Trying to pass on your veteran wisdom, take me under your wing, Sasaki? Right. That's absolutely Sasaki behavior.

Actually, I tried to make it up to you after coming perilously close to calling you an idiot:

There is literally nothing in this post that makes any sense. You didn't even check when the last time boudica was online. I did it for you: 8:53.

See this is the problem with your play in mafia games. Making careless assumptions and arguments is only half of it, when someone criticizes your argument you don't reconsider, you make great leaps in logic in order to keep your original assumption, even if it requires you to contradict something you said 5 minutes ago. Unless several people criticize your argument in which case you vote yourself and make a lengthy post about how you are in "lurker" mode and that you should just be lynched and start putting everything you say in spoilers.

This is from the day when boudica and pizza were tied briefly.

It is no small wonder that Sasaki didn't go after me for what had to be completely suicidal and bad-townie behavior of saying "please get the votes off of boudica... I think she's innocent..." when I was tied with her. Oh, I must have been your savior, Sasaki and boudica.

The above criticism was directed at you after you backed off boudica. I was trying to get boudica lynched that day. Also, and you noted this yourself at the time, Ituralde was present while ares and boudica were tied and did not vote:

Interesting timing you have, Ituralde.

Showing up a mere 20 minutes before the lynch. What a coincidence.

Sasaki accusing me of being Brendan now, instead of Oswald... that's rich. Why Brendan and not Oswald, as he originally stated? And why lord winter as Oswald?

How would he assume I am Brendan and not Oswald, unless he were Oswald himself? I don't rest my case, but frankly, I can stop here to let it all sink in.

I didn't originally state that you were oswald. I said that you were brendan because: the kill choices made by brendan matched the people you were suspicious of, and because of your connection with andres and little grizzly. You also pursued Ituralde from the get go.

Now I will ask you a question Pizza.

I accused Sasaki of being Oswald, and boudica of being his Godfather partner. I would obviously be more interested in boudica, because Boudica CANNOT be Oswald due to the investigation.

You can lynch me at any time. But you should have done that a LONG time ago. Now it's time to give me one moment to state my case against boudica, and please pay attention to why I am not going after Sasaki yet.

Boudica needs to be properly questioned. If she satisfies my suspicions, Sasaki is next.

Why are you only going after the people you think are English mafia? This is what you just accused me of doing. You even implied that you could rest your case on that point.

Summary on Pizza guy:

1)The day one self lynch was a fake, and his own posts reveal the only point of it was to make him look innocent.
2 &3)In response to my accusation of him today he has made a nonsensical accusation of boudica and I being english mafia. Specifically english mafia, with no mention of who he thinks the irish mafia are.
4)The kill choices of brendan are people pizza guy wanted to kill

[Reenk Roink]

Finally somebody else gets it. I say let Sasaki win even if he is Mafia, if this case gets Atpg lynched (and GH).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

More an pizzaguy.



Actually, I tried to make it up to you after coming perilously close to calling you an idiot:





This is from the day when boudica and pizza were tied briefly.



The above criticism was directed at you after you backed off boudica. I was trying to get boudica lynched that day. Also, and you noted this yourself at the time, Ituralde was present while ares and boudica were tied and did not vote:





I didn't originally state that you were oswald. I said that you were brendan because: the kill choices made by brendan matched the people you were suspicious of, and because of your connection with andres and little grizzly. You also pursued Ituralde from the get go.

Now I will ask you a question Pizza.



This is what you just accused me of doing. You even implied that you could rest your case on that point.

Summary on Pizza guy:

1)The day one self lynch was a fake, and his own posts reveal the only point of it was to make him look innocent.
2 &3)In response to my accusation of him today he has made a nonsensical accusation of boudica and I being english mafia. Specifically english mafia, with no mention of who he thinks the irish mafia are.
4)The kill choices of brendan are people pizza guy wanted to kill

Rebuttal:

Hi Oswald! Name all the people remaining who could be Oswald.


Perhaps the only thing you said I will respond to:

Why are you only going after the people you think are English mafia?

Because of the big eloquent murder writeup, and because the number of Oswald suspects are dwindling. It's down to just you and a select few other people. You've tipped your hand when you spend most of the time on your case of who is Irish mafia. Interesting that you'd then turn around and say I'm stuck on who the English are. I am hunting for Oswald due to the ever shrinking suspect list for who that player could be, and in doing that, I might be able to deduce who one of the Godfathers are.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Rebuttal:

Hi Oswald! Name all the people remaining who could be Oswald.


Perhaps the only thing you said I will respond to:



Because of the big eloquent murder writeup, and because the number of Oswald suspects are dwindling. It's down to just you and a select few other people. You've tipped your hand when you spend most of the time on your case of who is Irish mafia. Interesting that you'd then turn around and say I'm stuck on who the English are. I am hunting for Oswald due to the ever shrinking suspect list for who that player could be, and in doing that, I might be able to deduce who one of the Godfathers are.

This is nonsense atpg. I've made my case for who the english mafia are. I had them pegged as two lurkers so pardon me if I didn't have piles of evidenc. I've stated what I think about everyone left alive--this is because I'm looking for all the mafia, not just the english ones like you are.

You can't refute anything I've said.


pever, in the event of a tie, will both people be lynched again?

also, Life:Diana

Even though she votes the same way as pizza and is a mafioso by proxy, once he's rid of she still counts as a townie.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm a bit knackered. Right now, I think that pizza guy is definitely mafia. Most likely, the Irish grunt, due to kill choice and pursuit of ituralde. I will have to reread very carefully to determine whether LG or boudica is his godfather. In my opinion, boudica can't be the english godfather due to Ituralde not breaking the tie. LG, despite his mention of the two blind mice thing which had linked him tenuosly to the irish mafia, is my top candidate for english godfather if he isn't the irish one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh here, let me solve it, Sasaki. Be right back.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alive:

Due to investigations:

Askthepizzaguy- Not Oswald (I have the Askthepizzaguy Clue card)
LittleGrizzly- Not Oswald
GeneralHankerchief- Not Oswald
Sasaki Kojiro- never investigated
Lord Winter- ???
serierkhaan- Not Oswald
Diana Abnoba- ???
boudica- Not Oswald
El Diablo- Not Oswald



That leaves you, me, Lord Winter, and Diana. Even leaving my personal knowledge out of it, Diana wasn't even present for at least one of the murders. Lord Winter, doubtful due to his desire to leave the game. I know I'm not Oswald, and even you aren't accusing me of being Oswald anymore.

That leaves.... you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lynch me, Sasaki, and boudica, please.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Alive:

Due to investigations:

Askthepizzaguy- Not Oswald (I have the Askthepizzaguy Clue card)
LittleGrizzly- Not Oswald
GeneralHankerchief- Not Oswald
Sasaki Kojiro- never investigated
Lord Winter- ???
serierkhaan- Not Oswald
Diana Abnoba- ???
boudica- Not Oswald
El Diablo- Not Oswald



That leaves you, me, Lord Winter, and Diana. Even leaving my personal knowledge out of it, Diana wasn't even present for at least one of the murders. Lord Winter, doubtful due to his desire to leave the game. I know I'm not Oswald, and even you aren't accusing me of being Oswald anymore.

That leaves.... you.

Pizza, you just claimed to be brendan.

If you know it wasn't diana, and you know it wasn't lord winter because he offered suicide ( ), and you say that I'm Oswald...who does that leave?

[Reenk Roink]

It also makes sense how Andres always interjected when I posted on Atpg. Pretty obvious town, but get GH too!

edit: Lastly, look at the differences in the way that Atpg posted and the frequency of his posting in both The Settlement and this game. The former is more playful which is what Atpg had always said he would do after gf3. The latter is more to the point and reminiscent of Prometheus where Atpg tries to portray himself as super townie when he is town, but tries too hard which gives the telltale signs...

For the conservative post analyzers out there, this is a damning piece of evidence again.

[ULC]

Do realize there are only 4 town left - it's 50/50 whether we are right.

[ULC]

It also makes sense how Andres always interjected when I posted on Atpg. Pretty obvious town, but get GH too!

edit: Lastly, look at the differences in the way that Atpg posted and the frequency of his posting in both The Settlement and this game. The former is more playful which is what Atpg had always said he would do after gf3. The latter is more to the point and reminiscent of Prometheus where Atpg tries to portray himself as super townie when he is town, but tries too hard which gives the telltale signs...

For the conservative post analyzers out there, this is a damning piece of evidence again.

You mean lazy. You yourself refute this as a bad way to determine guilt, but are willing to use it as evidence against ATPG? Either you think he is incapable doing what you say everyone else can (change their style as they see fit), or just trying to heap poor accusation on top of him.

And do remember I am innocent looking in, not mafia scum trying to save my partner, so watch the hypocrisy, kay

[seireikhaan]

Here's a question, folks; why is there even a "life/death" option made separate, exclusively for Diana?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:LittleGrizzly

Will complete my reread before voting closes. But with pizza certain as mafia, I don't believe his play today accusing boudica is something he would do. I go back once more to his "I just don't buy grizzly as mafia, sasaki, I'll vote him tomorrow" when I presented my case on grizz.

[Reenk Roink]

You mean lazy. You yourself refute this as a bad way to determine guilt, but are willing to use it as evidence against ATPG? Either you think he is incapable doing what you say everyone else can (change their style as they see fit), or just trying to heap poor accusation on top of him.

And do remember I am innocent looking in, not mafia scum trying to save my partner, so watch the hypocrisy, kay

Of course I use different standards YLC, so what. You appeal to different people according to different methods. I don't care about making an epistemically correct case (as far as I am concerned that is impossible). I don't care to champion another method (I only criticize other methods when they go against my point of view).

Call it hypocrisy or double standards, I call it "what is right for one is not right for another"

I have a goal, I will use every avenue to reach it, every way of appealing to the town, to hell with consistency!