The fight for Inishmore [Concluded]

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki - He's not dead yet. That doesn't make him suspicious by itself, but say, if he was actually on the right track, the mafia would remove him. Sasaki can swing people with his vote - remove that vote, and Sasaki becomes less potent and less convincing, which is good for the mafia despite possible blame shifting to them. One might say that makes him good lynch bait, but we have two families, meaning that you simply can't take that risk since the other mafia will only be to happy to jump onbaord as a voting block - to retaliate would be to reveal to much. Plus, Sasaki, the whole game, has never been good lynch bait, until now.

In the past, I've always been left alive because when we get to endgame, people will say "sasaki could be fooling us!". Also, killing me confirms my innocence.

LittleGrizzly - I have actually ignored the bantering going back and forth between him and Sasaki. The issue is, LG responses are intune with how he is each game he plays - he is an easy target for an inquisition by someone like Sasaki. He is naturally defensive, refines his responses in an attempt to be clearer each time, has a tendency not to check up on his facts, and is mostly reactive - thats not Godfather material or behavior, especially for this long. The only reason the mafia would keep him alive is as lynch bait, some way for the town to waste their votes, since killing him removes his purpose - to hide behind. Godfathers need to check their facts, and be able to present their case in a good way when questioned - a less then solid defense makes them, and their team, vulnerable to the town and the other mafia. The very reasons Sasaki has been touting as reasons to lynch LG are the very reasons he is not what Sasaki says he is (nor Andres).

I'm interested in what you have to say on this, because it is possible I became blinded. Do you have a specific game you're thinking of that LG responded in a naturally defensive way, with refining and lack of fact checking etc?

[ULC]

In the past, I've always been left alive because when we get to endgame, people will say "sasaki could be fooling us!". Also, killing me confirms my innocence.

Hmm, I haven't looked to hard at your past games, and as I said, it does not make you suspicious in of it's self. However, you hammered day in and day out about LG, reducing the need to keep you alive. The only people who need scream "he's fooling us!" are mafia at this point, but to do so makes one vulnerable and is a weak ploy. An innocent Sasaki at the end has a stronger vote and stronger ability to sway votes, and thus it's making me interested why you are still alive.

I'm interested in what you have to say on this, because it is possible I became blinded. Do you have a specific game you're thinking of that LG responded in a naturally defensive way, with refining and lack of fact checking etc?

A specific game? No, not off the top of my head, but everygame I've ever played with or read about him, he acts extremely defensive. maybe I am wrong here, I'll go look up each and every game he was in (he was in your Kung Fu mafia, correct?), and get back to you. But that is how I view him as of now.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

More an pizzaguy.

Very nicely done Sasaki. I loved how nice you were to me all game to gain my favor. Should I reveal all your lovely PMs to me? Trying to pass on your veteran wisdom, take me under your wing, Sasaki? Right. That's absolutely Sasaki behavior.

Actually, I tried to make it up to you after coming perilously close to calling you an idiot:

There is literally nothing in this post that makes any sense. You didn't even check when the last time boudica was online. I did it for you: 8:53.

See this is the problem with your play in mafia games. Making careless assumptions and arguments is only half of it, when someone criticizes your argument you don't reconsider, you make great leaps in logic in order to keep your original assumption, even if it requires you to contradict something you said 5 minutes ago. Unless several people criticize your argument in which case you vote yourself and make a lengthy post about how you are in "lurker" mode and that you should just be lynched and start putting everything you say in spoilers.

This is from the day when boudica and pizza were tied briefly.

It is no small wonder that Sasaki didn't go after me for what had to be completely suicidal and bad-townie behavior of saying "please get the votes off of boudica... I think she's innocent..." when I was tied with her. Oh, I must have been your savior, Sasaki and boudica.

The above criticism was directed at you after you backed off boudica. I was trying to get boudica lynched that day. Also, and you noted this yourself at the time, Ituralde was present while ares and boudica were tied and did not vote:

Interesting timing you have, Ituralde.

Showing up a mere 20 minutes before the lynch. What a coincidence.

Sasaki accusing me of being Brendan now, instead of Oswald... that's rich. Why Brendan and not Oswald, as he originally stated? And why lord winter as Oswald?

How would he assume I am Brendan and not Oswald, unless he were Oswald himself? I don't rest my case, but frankly, I can stop here to let it all sink in.

I didn't originally state that you were oswald. I said that you were brendan because: the kill choices made by brendan matched the people you were suspicious of, and because of your connection with andres and little grizzly. You also pursued Ituralde from the get go.

Now I will ask you a question Pizza.

I accused Sasaki of being Oswald, and boudica of being his Godfather partner. I would obviously be more interested in boudica, because Boudica CANNOT be Oswald due to the investigation.

You can lynch me at any time. But you should have done that a LONG time ago. Now it's time to give me one moment to state my case against boudica, and please pay attention to why I am not going after Sasaki yet.

Boudica needs to be properly questioned. If she satisfies my suspicions, Sasaki is next.

Why are you only going after the people you think are English mafia? This is what you just accused me of doing. You even implied that you could rest your case on that point.

Summary on Pizza guy:

1)The day one self lynch was a fake, and his own posts reveal the only point of it was to make him look innocent.
2 &3)In response to my accusation of him today he has made a nonsensical accusation of boudica and I being english mafia. Specifically english mafia, with no mention of who he thinks the irish mafia are.
4)The kill choices of brendan are people pizza guy wanted to kill

[Reenk Roink]

Finally somebody else gets it. I say let Sasaki win even if he is Mafia, if this case gets Atpg lynched (and GH).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

More an pizzaguy.



Actually, I tried to make it up to you after coming perilously close to calling you an idiot:





This is from the day when boudica and pizza were tied briefly.



The above criticism was directed at you after you backed off boudica. I was trying to get boudica lynched that day. Also, and you noted this yourself at the time, Ituralde was present while ares and boudica were tied and did not vote:





I didn't originally state that you were oswald. I said that you were brendan because: the kill choices made by brendan matched the people you were suspicious of, and because of your connection with andres and little grizzly. You also pursued Ituralde from the get go.

Now I will ask you a question Pizza.



This is what you just accused me of doing. You even implied that you could rest your case on that point.

Summary on Pizza guy:

1)The day one self lynch was a fake, and his own posts reveal the only point of it was to make him look innocent.
2 &3)In response to my accusation of him today he has made a nonsensical accusation of boudica and I being english mafia. Specifically english mafia, with no mention of who he thinks the irish mafia are.
4)The kill choices of brendan are people pizza guy wanted to kill

Rebuttal:

Hi Oswald! Name all the people remaining who could be Oswald.


Perhaps the only thing you said I will respond to:

Why are you only going after the people you think are English mafia?

Because of the big eloquent murder writeup, and because the number of Oswald suspects are dwindling. It's down to just you and a select few other people. You've tipped your hand when you spend most of the time on your case of who is Irish mafia. Interesting that you'd then turn around and say I'm stuck on who the English are. I am hunting for Oswald due to the ever shrinking suspect list for who that player could be, and in doing that, I might be able to deduce who one of the Godfathers are.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Rebuttal:

Hi Oswald! Name all the people remaining who could be Oswald.


Perhaps the only thing you said I will respond to:



Because of the big eloquent murder writeup, and because the number of Oswald suspects are dwindling. It's down to just you and a select few other people. You've tipped your hand when you spend most of the time on your case of who is Irish mafia. Interesting that you'd then turn around and say I'm stuck on who the English are. I am hunting for Oswald due to the ever shrinking suspect list for who that player could be, and in doing that, I might be able to deduce who one of the Godfathers are.

This is nonsense atpg. I've made my case for who the english mafia are. I had them pegged as two lurkers so pardon me if I didn't have piles of evidenc. I've stated what I think about everyone left alive--this is because I'm looking for all the mafia, not just the english ones like you are.

You can't refute anything I've said.


pever, in the event of a tie, will both people be lynched again?

also, Life:Diana

Even though she votes the same way as pizza and is a mafioso by proxy, once he's rid of she still counts as a townie.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm a bit knackered. Right now, I think that pizza guy is definitely mafia. Most likely, the Irish grunt, due to kill choice and pursuit of ituralde. I will have to reread very carefully to determine whether LG or boudica is his godfather. In my opinion, boudica can't be the english godfather due to Ituralde not breaking the tie. LG, despite his mention of the two blind mice thing which had linked him tenuosly to the irish mafia, is my top candidate for english godfather if he isn't the irish one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh here, let me solve it, Sasaki. Be right back.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alive:

Due to investigations:

Askthepizzaguy- Not Oswald (I have the Askthepizzaguy Clue card)
LittleGrizzly- Not Oswald
GeneralHankerchief- Not Oswald
Sasaki Kojiro- never investigated
Lord Winter- ???
serierkhaan- Not Oswald
Diana Abnoba- ???
boudica- Not Oswald
El Diablo- Not Oswald



That leaves you, me, Lord Winter, and Diana. Even leaving my personal knowledge out of it, Diana wasn't even present for at least one of the murders. Lord Winter, doubtful due to his desire to leave the game. I know I'm not Oswald, and even you aren't accusing me of being Oswald anymore.

That leaves.... you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lynch me, Sasaki, and boudica, please.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Alive:

Due to investigations:

Askthepizzaguy- Not Oswald (I have the Askthepizzaguy Clue card)
LittleGrizzly- Not Oswald
GeneralHankerchief- Not Oswald
Sasaki Kojiro- never investigated
Lord Winter- ???
serierkhaan- Not Oswald
Diana Abnoba- ???
boudica- Not Oswald
El Diablo- Not Oswald



That leaves you, me, Lord Winter, and Diana. Even leaving my personal knowledge out of it, Diana wasn't even present for at least one of the murders. Lord Winter, doubtful due to his desire to leave the game. I know I'm not Oswald, and even you aren't accusing me of being Oswald anymore.

That leaves.... you.

Pizza, you just claimed to be brendan.

If you know it wasn't diana, and you know it wasn't lord winter because he offered suicide ( ), and you say that I'm Oswald...who does that leave?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd rather take down the entire English mafia in one night and claim credit, Sasaki.

DIE!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!

[Reenk Roink]

It also makes sense how Andres always interjected when I posted on Atpg. Pretty obvious town, but get GH too!

edit: Lastly, look at the differences in the way that Atpg posted and the frequency of his posting in both The Settlement and this game. The former is more playful which is what Atpg had always said he would do after gf3. The latter is more to the point and reminiscent of Prometheus where Atpg tries to portray himself as super townie when he is town, but tries too hard which gives the telltale signs...

For the conservative post analyzers out there, this is a damning piece of evidence again.

[ULC]

Do realize there are only 4 town left - it's 50/50 whether we are right.

[ULC]

It also makes sense how Andres always interjected when I posted on Atpg. Pretty obvious town, but get GH too!

edit: Lastly, look at the differences in the way that Atpg posted and the frequency of his posting in both The Settlement and this game. The former is more playful which is what Atpg had always said he would do after gf3. The latter is more to the point and reminiscent of Prometheus where Atpg tries to portray himself as super townie when he is town, but tries too hard which gives the telltale signs...

For the conservative post analyzers out there, this is a damning piece of evidence again.

You mean lazy. You yourself refute this as a bad way to determine guilt, but are willing to use it as evidence against ATPG? Either you think he is incapable doing what you say everyone else can (change their style as they see fit), or just trying to heap poor accusation on top of him.

And do remember I am innocent looking in, not mafia scum trying to save my partner, so watch the hypocrisy, kay

[seireikhaan]

Here's a question, folks; why is there even a "life/death" option made separate, exclusively for Diana?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:LittleGrizzly

Will complete my reread before voting closes. But with pizza certain as mafia, I don't believe his play today accusing boudica is something he would do. I go back once more to his "I just don't buy grizzly as mafia, sasaki, I'll vote him tomorrow" when I presented my case on grizz.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote:LittleGrizzly

Will complete my reread before voting closes. But with pizza certain as mafia, I don't believe his play today accusing boudica is something he would do. I go back once more to his "I just don't buy grizzly as mafia, sasaki, I'll vote him tomorrow" when I presented my case on grizz.

Since you're Oswald, I wasn't going to listen to your "case" on Grizzly.

Boudica is your Godfather.

[Reenk Roink]

You mean lazy. You yourself refute this as a bad way to determine guilt, but are willing to use it as evidence against ATPG? Either you think he is incapable doing what you say everyone else can (change their style as they see fit), or just trying to heap poor accusation on top of him.

And do remember I am innocent looking in, not mafia scum trying to save my partner, so watch the hypocrisy, kay

Of course I use different standards YLC, so what. You appeal to different people according to different methods. I don't care about making an epistemically correct case (as far as I am concerned that is impossible). I don't care to champion another method (I only criticize other methods when they go against my point of view).

Call it hypocrisy or double standards, I call it "what is right for one is not right for another"

I have a goal, I will use every avenue to reach it, every way of appealing to the town, to hell with consistency!

[ULC]

Of course I use different standards YLC, so what. You appeal to different people according to different methods. I don't care about making an epistemically correct case (as far as I am concerned that is impossible). I don't care to champion another method (I only criticize other methods when they go against my point of view).

Call it hypocrisy or double standards, I call it "what is right for one is not right for another"

I have a goal, I will use every avenue to reach it, every way of appealing to the town, to hell with consistency!

Then that is bad play IMO, I am or at least try to always be consistent in which I "appeal" to the town. At most, I will hold a double opinion, but that is only so I can realize how I may be wrong/right.

Sorry for being principaled, that is how I feel and it's my own burden and sorrow to carry I suppose.