How to recreate the Battle of Termopylae?

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 04-04-2009, 22:15

It is impossible to make immpassible battlemap terrain in RTW. Units can walk up any slope, even sheer cliffs. Thermopylae is possible in M2TW since there is immpassible battlemap terrain. People have already made maps for Thermopylae on M2TW, there was even a thread advertising one over at the TWC EBII forum a month or two back.

**Africanvs** · 04-05-2009, 05:07

Awesome, one more reason to look forward to EB II!

**antisocialmunky** · 04-05-2009, 12:47

In lude of a good map, just use a river map. River Jordan is nice since it has 2 fords if you want to put some Phocians at the pass.

**The Persian Cataphract** · 04-06-2009, 22:26

I hate to be the party-pooper, but there is no way to accurately portray the Persian army with the EB unit rosters provided by Pahlava, Hayasdan and Pontos for several reasons: It's not enough, and this is verified by surveying the array of foot units which attended the battle order at Thermopylae, in Herodotus' narration. This would include several hoplite-types, armoured sickle-men, Phrygians, Lycians... The list practically goes on and on.

The lack of a proper unit to accurately represent the Achaemenid Immortals in campaign apparel and equipment is by itself stopping the prospects of even a "barebones" rendition of the battle and known regiments recorded in combat. Medeans on the other hand could be represented by the Parthian Spearmen and Iranian archer-spearmen. Mountaineers trying to circumvent the pass could be represented by Iranian axemen. Persian heavy-archers and Cardaces hoplites could in combination pass for the platoon-like baivarabam of foot Immortals... The problem is that the Persian heavy-archers are not fit for any type of combat, while the Cardaces are practically hoplites. Uniforms carried by the mentioned troops are anachronistic to the relevant era and time.

In fact the only three units which would still adhere to Medean uniform would be the aforementioned Parthian spearmen, Iranian archer-spearmen and the Iranian axemen. The Immortals themselves would have required two different units, a larger bodyguard which carried spears with silver-ware "apples" as counter-weights, while a distinguished ceremonial unit dressed in a particularly lavish manner would utilize spears with golden counter-weights. The mod Rise of Persia (RoP) does an excellent job portraying the warrior's hierarchy in the Achaemenid military apparatus.

And this excludes any cavalry which would have joined the expedition, so... At what point does one intend to capture the battle? The very start, before there was a proper clash? Or to restrict this to purely "Herodotian" parameters? Or to just recreate history as it unfolded proper?

In any case, EB is not really optimal for this particular battle, notwithstanding that the Spartans in EB are vastly different from the Spartans of the Classical era, especially in attire.

**desert** · 04-07-2009, 01:04

Building on what TPC said, remember that none of the EB hoplites carry bronze armor (except maybe the Spartans, I can't remember though), and that leads to them getting slaughtered way too quickly by "Persian" infantry.

Put a unit of Hoplitai on a bridge and eventually a few units of Pantodapoi will overwhelm it. And that's not to say what will happen if they get into the flanks...

**athanaric** · 04-07-2009, 06:24

Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

It is impossible to make immpassible battlemap terrain in RTW. Units can walk up any slope, even sheer cliffs.

Aha. That explains why my Lonchophoroi Hippeis started climbing the walls of the Imperial Palace (or whatever it was) in Roma.

**Calypze** · 04-15-2009, 09:58

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Unfortunately, it seems like both AI, the map and RTW battle rules make it an impossible endeavor.

**seienchin** · 04-15-2009, 16:43

There is impossible terain in RTW. first of all there is water, then there are big trees and then there are some stone formations impossible to climb and of course building like houses etc.
To recreate a Thermopylae like Battlefield you just have to combine things, but of course it seems impossibel to make it historical correct.

**PershsNhpios** · 04-17-2009, 06:58

How to recreate the Battle of Termopylae?

Throw yourself from a cliff's edge.

**Cute Wolf** · 04-17-2009, 07:11

After several times read these posts, I've allready tried that, and well, most of the time, without chevrons... the Lakedaimons and their ally would be easily slaughtered from a cowardly persian general that ordered his troops to wait and attack them with massive missile volleys (the Alex AI actually did it!!!)...

To made the spartans as a battle turning unit, I wolud give the 2 (or maybe 3) Hitpoints for them...

**seienchin** · 04-17-2009, 11:20

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

After several times read these posts, I've allready tried that, and well, most of the time, without chevrons... the Lakedaimons and their ally would be easily slaughtered from a cowardly persian general that ordered his troops to wait and attack them with massive missile volleys (the Alex AI actually did it!!!)...

To made the spartans as a battle turning unit, I wolud give the 2 (or maybe 3) Hitpoints for them...

I noticed that Live points dont count against arrows. (Thats why in Lotr TW Sauron with 7 Live points easily gets slaughtered by archers ^^) You rather should give the m more shield defense.