I laugh in the face of White Supremacist groups

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes in my humble opinion you, or at least your idea's, are more dangerous, it's the difference between a car- and a traincrash. So someone hates blacks, what's it to me, you can hate whoever you want for whatever reason, you really want to correct that? That would be imposing, and tresspassing someone's right to believe whatever the hell he wants to believe no matter how twisted it is, what is next? What else doesn't have your aproval? I consider it to be a soft variety of fascism.

1. In my opinion your ideas are more dangerous. You know what they say about opinions...

2. So someone hates blacks, what's it to me? So someone marches around, telling people how much they hate blacks, what's it to me? So someone organizes mass demonstrations, giving powerful speeches about how horrible black people are, what's it to me? So someone uses threats and intimidation to spread fear about a race of people, what's it to me? So what if they identify themselves as Nazis, complete with swastikas (in the sense of Nazi swastikas), what's it to me? Charismatic Nazi fervor, marching through the streets, intimidating minorities; why, that never harmed anyone! Not even a LITTLE BIT!

3. "You can hate whoever you want, you really want to correct that?"

Yes. Hatred of other human beings who haven't done anything wrong, based on race, is vile and dangerous and wrong. You can get all high and mighty and say it's wrong to believe it is wrong, and I can point out the hypocrisy of telling someone it is wrong to tell someone it is wrong.

4. "That would be imposing, and tresspassing someone's right to believe whatever the hell he wants to believe no matter how twisted it is, what is next?"

Really? So, if I speak out against hate, while they are speaking the hate, I'm actually the one who is in the wrong? Sounds pretty.... twisted.... to me.

5. "What else doesn't have your aproval? I consider it to be a soft variety of fascism."

WHAT? How... how... how... how DARE you speak out against fascism. That sounds like... something judgmental to me! How dare I speak out against people who are ACTUALLY fascists and nazis. That makes me a fascist and a Nazi. Actually worse because I have reasoning behind what I am doing, and I'm not trying to exterminate, threaten, or harass them into leaving the country.

I'm such a bad sick evil person for ever saying Nazis are wrong, and those Nazis who say black people are wrong, well, they are the good people. You're right Fragony. If you weren't serious, this would make for great satire; instead, it's confusing, hypocritical, and disturbing.

Have a lovely day!

[Fragony]

WHAT? How... how... how... how DARE you speak out against fascism. That sounds like... something judgmental to me! How dare I speak out against people who are ACTUALLY fascists and nazis.

Yes, think of it, as long as they don't go beyond what is acceptable, and the 'why did the dark man take away my mommy' is unacceptable imho, that is spreading hate. I rather dislike nazi's and white-supremists they are idiots, but the thing is I like myselve more then I dislike them and I don't really feel like betraying myselve because of a bunch of racist idiots. Freedom; it isn't meant for everyone if you know what I mean and imho you are on the slippery slope not them.

I laugh in the face of White Supremacist groups

That's the thread title. But no you don't, yet you should.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes, think of it, as long as they don't go beyond what is acceptable, and the 'why did the dark man take away my mommy' is unacceptable imho, that is spreading hate.

How judgmental of you. [/sarcasm!]

I rather dislike nazi's and white-supremists they are idiots,

Really? Are they all really idiots? Even I called them ignorant... that means there is a possibility they could, you know, see the light and improve, and become regular happy well adjusted people. According to you they are mentally handicapped. How very judgmental of you. [/sarcasm!]

but the thing is I like myselve more then I dislike them

I'm happy for ya!

and I don't really feel like betraying myselve because of a bunch of racist idiots.

How very judgmental of you, calling those poor Nazis racist idiots. [/sarcasm!]

Freedom; it isn't meant for everyone if you know what I mean

Sounds awfully fascist to me.

and imho you are on the slippery slope not them.

How very judgmental of you! [/sarcasm!] I am glad you'll side with the Neo-Nazi hate groups over me.

When people talk about how awful it is to speak out against racists, and then turn around and engage in ad hominem style attacks against them, and then judge the people who say racism is wrong as being more sick and twisted than the racists themselves, for being so judgmental.... I really gotta wonder, like... where do you get this stuff? It's so hypocritical that the room is spinning.

I'm just saying, your own argument destroys itself and your credibility.

[Fragony]

I'm just saying, your own argument destroys itself and your credibility.

If you don't mind me saying you aren't your credibility's best friend in this thread.

"How very judgmental of you! I am glad you'll side with the Neo-Nazi hate groups over me. "

Sorry but why do I deserve this?

[Tribesman]

I'm just saying, your own argument destroys itself and your credibility.

Hold on there , what credibility ?
This is the bloke who claims good citizens who were caught red handed engaged in domestic terrorism and convicted of hate crimes were really innocent and only convicted because they were not immigrants .

[Fragony]

Hold on there , what credibility ?
This is the bloke who claims good citizens who were caught red handed engaged in domestic terrorism and convicted of hate crimes were really innocent and only convicted because they were not immigrants .

That one was simply way off juridically, and the judge himself said that the punishment was harsher because of just that, so end of story it happened. Almost forgot but someone keeps reminding me. Now also mention I once posted a post where I wanted to beat up muslim-rioters (5 years ago, drunk) and so we have all made a full circle and can carry on.

[Vuk]

Oh, and just so you know, one of my neighbors, used to be a racist. He and his wife were very nice, and completely harmless people. They did not act rudely to people of other races, or hurt anyone. They had a belief though that blacks were stupid and prone to violence, and that orientals were deceitfully, and that Latins were creepy. I used to think to myself when I heard them say things like that "How positively stupid", and I delibrately would bring my Korean gf over to their place for dinner. :P (no, we did not eat her :P) Long story made short, though I thought their belief was stupid, they were my good friends who I respected, they were nice people, and both of them ended up admitting that they were wrong about those beliefs. I do not think their beliefs were anymore harmful than those who look down on Christians, or muslims, or women, or men, or Americans, or Canadians. It was a stupid idea, and one they were talked out of, but it is not inherently violent. Violence is something different entirely, and needs to be dealt with for what it is: violence. The same thing goes for disturbing the peace, intimidation, etc.

I agree with you ATPG that racism is bad, but I do not think that means all racists are bad. To join an organised group like this in todays world I think means that you are a little insecure and perhaps not very smart, but I do not think it necassarily means someone is evil or deserving of hate. If they really think they are saving people, and they do not plan to use violence, intimidation, or such dirty tactics as that poster, then I see no reason to hate them.


EDIT: Another thing to think about with racists I think is this. Racism punishes itself. Violence needs to be punished so that it will not be continued, but racism does not. Punishing someone for it will just make them firmer in their beliefs. If someone wants to deprive themselves of the company and friendship of people from other races, it is their own loss, their own stupidity, and their own punishment. It hurts no one but themselves, as does the stress they put on themselves.
The problem here isn't the racism I think, but the violence, intimidation, and harmful posters. They could wrap it in nationalism, relgious hate, gender hate, whatever, that is just the frosting.

[Vuk]

1. In my opinion your ideas are more dangerous. You know what they say about opinions...

2. So someone hates blacks, what's it to me? So someone marches around, telling people how much they hate blacks, what's it to me? So someone organizes mass demonstrations, giving powerful speeches about how horrible black people are, what's it to me? So someone uses threats and intimidation to spread fear about a race of people, what's it to me? So what if they identify themselves as Nazis, complete with swastikas (in the sense of Nazi swastikas), what's it to me? Charismatic Nazi fervor, marching through the streets, intimidating minorities; why, that never harmed anyone! Not even a LITTLE BIT!

3. "You can hate whoever you want, you really want to correct that?"

Yes. Hatred of other human beings who haven't done anything wrong, based on race, is vile and dangerous and wrong. You can get all high and mighty and say it's wrong to believe it is wrong, and I can point out the hypocrisy of telling someone it is wrong to tell someone it is wrong.

4. "That would be imposing, and tresspassing someone's right to believe whatever the hell he wants to believe no matter how twisted it is, what is next?"

Really? So, if I speak out against hate, while they are speaking the hate, I'm actually the one who is in the wrong? Sounds pretty.... twisted.... to me.

5. "What else doesn't have your aproval? I consider it to be a soft variety of fascism."

WHAT? How... how... how... how DARE you speak out against fascism. That sounds like... something judgmental to me! How dare I speak out against people who are ACTUALLY fascists and nazis. That makes me a fascist and a Nazi. Actually worse because I have reasoning behind what I am doing, and I'm not trying to exterminate, threaten, or harass them into leaving the country.

I'm such a bad sick evil person for ever saying Nazis are wrong, and those Nazis who say black people are wrong, well, they are the good people. You're right Fragony. If you weren't serious, this would make for great satire; instead, it's confusing, hypocritical, and disturbing.

Have a lovely day!

I don't think that is what he is saying ATPG. Everyone has likes and dislikes, and with everyone thinks they are superior to others in some way, and that others are inferior to them and their group in some way. This can be class, nationality, gender, race, etc.
Think of chauvinist and feminists. Many feminists think guys are barbaric, horrible, evil, inferior beings driven by instinct and devoid of heart or feeling. (that is actually how I have heard a feminist describe men) Meanwhile chauvinists think women are nothing but unfeeling, lying, cheating, evil who are good for nothing but sex. (If you think I am exaggerating, just look at some of the comments freaks make on Youtube vids, or listen to guys talking in a bar) These people both think that the other is dangerous to their group, and that their group should have superiority. Likewise with classes, lower classes think of the rich as evil and corrupt, and oppressive toward them (and they aren't far off ), meanwhile the upper-classes/upper middle classes think of the lowers classes/lower middle classes as stupid, uneducated, inferior beings, who are dangerous because they cannot think for themselves and do not know what is good for them. (don't think so? Listen to two professors talking about the "six pack Joe" watching football, or here two factory workers talking about wall street investors.) To be honest with you, I think the most and widest spread disgust and hatred I have ever witnessed has been by higher class, educated individuals about lower class, uneducated individuals.
A similar dislike and condescension exists between religious people and atheists I believe. (by both sides to be sure)
My point is that prejudices and hates at least as strong as that of race exist in common society everywhere. I do not think race is any worse than class, religious, national, or sexual hatred. All have led to abuses and deaths. Some have been stronger than others through times in history. Where I person stands on these is their problem, and you may consider them stuck up and stupid, but that is hardly a reason to hate them.
If these Aryan Nations people decide to abuse and kill people (or if they make it their agenda to do so), then that is something to take action against. It is no worse though than if someone did it for race, nationality, gender, or religion though. I don't think that any of these leads to violence or oppression more than the other. If you hate someone for racial prejudice, and want to do something about them, then you are gonna hate someone for national prejudice, or religious prejudice, or sexual prejudice, etc. You will end up hating the world. :P Hate the sin, love the sinner. I have friends who are racist. They are harmless, and do not treat people of other races poorly, but they think that they are stupid, and more instinct driven. I do not hate them for it, I instead try to use evidence to show them that they are wrong (and have succeeded with one). Likewise I know women who belong to the feminist chapter at my Uni and are always talking about female empowerment, and women taking control, blah, blah, blah. They are not harmful though, and I do not hate them for it. I do the same thing I do with racists and try to persuade them to stop being such idiots. Likewise, I know people who hate Israel and hate Israelis at least as strongly as anyone I know who hates other races. Once again with them, I do not hate them, but try persuade them.
Everyone has prejudices, but they are not violence, and they are oppression, they are just dumb. Everyone in the world has their own though, whether they will admit it or not. (I think yours is a loathing of people of faith ATPG, whether you will admit it or not ) When people commit violence and oppress people, the fault is the violence and the violence needs to be addressed. Sure, without hatred you would not have violence, but it IS there and cannot be gotten rid of I think. As long as people are rational and do not let it lead to violence or oppression, that is what matters. If you hate the sin, and not the sinner, then you will fight the sin, and not the sinner. You fight a sinner with violence, you fight a sin with words. The problem is people not paying attention to that old adage.
See what I mean?