Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
I hope this is countries aside from Norway, which since it floats on oil barely needs a financial model. The odd threat to Middle East supply is enough.
Gradual change might have worked. I'm sure what was done was not 100% efficient.
D-Day landings worked. I've heard it said that 30% of allied casualties were caused by allied bombs and shells.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Screw Norway, look at Sweden instead.Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
I imagine that if we'd started to drift this way in the early 1950's the transition might have been relatively painless. I think we were still rebuilding parts of the country then of course post WW2.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Which is a good point. It seems like most people here aren't factoring in the devastation caused by the war and the subsequent rebuilding efforts.I imagine that if we'd started to drift this way in the early 1950's the transition might have been relatively painless. I think we were still rebuilding parts of the country then of course post WW2.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
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Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Thatcher was a tale of two halves..
Whilst doing a great deal to change a lot in our fair country, she also made some horrible decisions. For a start, the manner in which she completely ignored her cabinet did her no favours, Thatcher thought she knew best when really she didn't. Her terrible guidance over the NI troubles was also an issue, she certainly didn't help ease the situation over there. Another bad point for me was the way she threw her foreign policy around like the British were still a world player, no doubt Thatcher tried to hold onto the remaining British colonies with all she could. The Falklands isn't such a big issue for me, all the sinking of the Belgrano was..
Edit:
Can't believe I forgot the poll tax. Nothing has to be said about that other than it was one of the biggest political backfires of the modern era. An attempt to tighten the control of the conservative party even more ultimately failed.
Last edited by tibilicus; 05-06-2009 at 19:58.
"A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
What was bad about her handling of NI?
What was bad about her handling of foreign policy? The two biggies were Cruise/Pershing and the Falklands?
And your disparaging remarks about the falklands totally belie the fact that it was sovereign british territory, the inhabitants of which wished to remain british. The belgrano was an enemy warship, which threatened a very precarious military mission to recover british territory and subjects from an invading aggressor, i would have sunk the ship, whats your problem with it?
The final point i'll make about the falklands is that it allegedly discredited the KGB in the eyes of the politiburo for their bad call on the reaction to the falklands invasion, which in my opinion is a magnificient occurance, confusion to your enemies and all that.
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
But still... Who cares?
Who honestly care about some barren, irrelevant island on the other side of the world? Oh right, british right-wingers do...
Last edited by HoreTore; 05-06-2009 at 22:53.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
The Belgrano was out of the military exclusion zone and had no intention of engaging any British forces
as it was leaving. As far as I'm aware at least. Sinking the Belgrano, a military ship outside of the designated combat are was just as bad as a land force landing on Argentinian soil for example.
In regards to the handling of NI, the way in which Thatcher reinforced military outposts and increased checkpoints built up more barriers between the communities there. Indeed, ask most NI residence which PM actually did the most the resolve the Troubles and the answer will probably be Blair. As far as I'm aware Thatcher only increased Republican resentment as she was seen as an almost brutal leader in some respects.
In other foreign policy issues she gave the EU/EEC a hard time, now I'm not saying this was a bad thing nor do I wish to turn this into a Europe debate, but what Thatcher did serve in doing was creating a frosty relationship between us and the rest of Europe.
Also the Poll tax has to bee a major point as well. This poor piece of political engineering backfired drastically and I can't say I'm surprised. When you try and play politics like this things are bound to get nasty.
Despite all this in many respects I think Thatcher was a good leader in many ways. She not only turned a country round but also tried and successfully managed to keep Britain an economically competitive country, something Labour no doubt couldn't of achieved. Most of the resentment from miners ect is ridiculous IMO. A good government wouldn't possibly dream of trying to prop up a completely unprofitable industry or try and keep certain businesses nationalised which were simply running up debts.
Because there are so many good and bad points about Thatcher I have rather mixed feelings towards her. Whilst in many ways she was a savage and cold leader she was also a good leader and knowledgeable in her work. The fact that no other PM can stir up such feelings of admiration and hate in this country shows the mark she made on British politics, a permanent and significant one.
Last edited by tibilicus; 05-06-2009 at 23:48.
"A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."
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