Abortion Debate (As Scheduled)

[Marshal Murat]

EMFM - I'd like to point out that while many Americans are now pro-life, they haven't all come around to the whole "let's ban abortions" thing yet. Which is a nice moderation from my point of view.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

EMFM - I'd like to point out that while many Americans are now pro-life, they haven't all come around to the whole "let's ban abortions" thing yet. Which is a nice moderation from my point of view.

Exactly what the poll says. Most Americans are pro-life, and yet most Americans are also in favour of abortions in some circumstances. This coincides rather nicely with my position (secular pro-life with abortions legal only in certain cases).

You should not be allowed to even control your own body, or what?

A fundamental opinion behind the pro-life movement is that a fetus isn't your own body.

You are not entitled to decide when you want offspring or not?

Yes. You should have made that decision earlier though.

[Kadagar_AV]

Yes. You should have made that decision earlier though.

Ok... so condom bursting, vomiting when on birth control pills.. Those are not valid reasons?

basicly what you are saying is that one should wait having sex untill married to avoid complications? Welcome to the year 2000.


I'll use myself as an example...

Scenario 1: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. We are not right for each other, we try a couple of years but it fails. Child is left fatherless/motherless or perhaps has to grow up with two parents hating each other. Alternatively has to spend every other week/year/whatever in Austria and England.

Scenario 2: I make a girl pregnant, she does NOt give birth. We split up, she now has a child and is married, I have a new girlfriend.

Now, explain why scenario 1 is better than scenario 2?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Ok... so condom bursting, vomiting when on birth control pills.. Those are not valid reasons?

basicly what you are saying is that one should wait having sex untill married to avoid complications?

No, I'm saying one should assume the potential responsibility of sex. I'm willing to consider first trimester abortions for birth control purposes (on the condition that you pay for them yourself), but that's all.

Now, explain why scenario 1 is better than scenario 2?

The child is alive and has a shot at life?

[Kadagar_AV]

The child is alive and has a shot at life?

Well, now she got another child who got a shot at life... And THAT one will probably grow up with two loving parents.

You mean this child has less value of life? Or do you mean this child would have happened if she would have got the first one too?

Oh, and we kill some millions of babies each time we , right?

Just urinating will kill quite a LOT of potential life.

Touched your balls anytime this week? The sudden impact against your balls will have killed thousands of potential humans.

*yawn*

Yeah abortion is bad. bad, bad abortion.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

You mean this child has less value of life? Or do you mean this child would have happened if she would have got the first one too?

Can I kill you if it means that your parents will end up with another [presumably better]* child?

*No insult intended with that, I'm playing on your analogy/example.

Oh, and we kill some millions of babies each time we , right?

Just urinating will kill quite a LOT of potential life.

Touched your balls anytime this week? The sudden impact against your balls will have killed thousands of potential humans.

*yawn*

Yeah abortion is bad. bad, bad abortion.

The argument that killing millions of unfertilized cells, or even an embryo, means that all abortion should be legal is a laughable example of hyperbole and completely unrelated to that of a violent abortion of a fetus.

[HoreTore]

(on the condition that you pay for them yourself)

So....

What you're saying, is that rich people shouldn't have kids, but we should get more dirt poor kids...?

[Samurai Waki]

I'm all for it, my girls were a conscientious decision between two people who agreed the alternative wasn't agreeable, but that it didn't mean people shouldn't be able to decide. I'm truly sorry for those who weren't ready to be received into the world without proper guidance and instruction.

[Fragony]

You buy what you break, if you make a mistake you should live with it. Abortion should only be possible only under extreme circumstances, might not look like a human being, yet, but it is one if you allow it to live. I wouldn't be able to live with knowing that, abortion is so very wrong on so many levels.

[KarlXII]

Scenario 1: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. We are not right for each other, we try a couple of years but it fails. Child is left fatherless/motherless or perhaps has to grow up with two parents hating each other. Alternatively has to spend every other week/year/whatever in Austria and England.

Scenario 2: I make a girl pregnant, she does NOt give birth. We split up, she now has a child and is married, I have a new girlfriend.

This isn't the 70s. We know the risks of sex, both in pregnancy and diseases, and therefore must act more resonsibly about the consequences. If you don't want to be a father and decide to go have sex with a girl without taking the proper prevention, then you KNOW the risks, and if you get her pregnant, it is YOUR responsibility.

[Tristuskhan]

If you don't want to be a father and decide to go have sex with a girl without taking the proper prevention, then you KNOW the risks, and if you get her pregnant, it is YOUR responsibility.

So your punishment must be a child? Looks like you love children.... can I remind you it's the unwanted child who pays for your mistake? I wish abortion was legal when my father was born (june 1945, nine month after Liberation of France, bless those wild liberation parties), he won't be struggling everyday to find reasons not to practice self-destruction.

[Vuk]

So your punishment must be a child? Looks like you love children.... can I remind you it's the unwanted child who pays for your mistake? I wish abortion was legal when my father was born (june 1945, nine month after Liberation of France, bless those wild liberation parties), he won't be struggling everyday to find reasons not to practice self-destruction.

He didn't say it was a punishment, he said it was a responsibility. It is abortionists (such as Obama) who say that children are punishments. If you do not want the responsibility of a child, then yes, having sex is a 'risk' in that sense, but that does not mean that a child is a punishment. Children are responsibilities, and abortion is just a cheap way to get out of that responsibility by murdering a child.

[PBI]

This generalisation has been edited out in the original post. BG

Not only is this an incredibly lazy (not to mention offensive and inaccurate) generalization, it is also completely irrelevant.

[Tristuskhan]

He didn't say it was a punishment, he said it was a responsibility. It is abortionists (such as Obama) who say that children are punishments. If you do not want the responsibility of a child, then yes, having sex is a 'risk' in that sense, but that does not mean that a child is a punishment. Children are responsibilities, and abortion is just a cheap way to get out of that responsibility by murdering a child.

Right. I can understand the point. I'd just say that it's "responsibilities" for people around, but actually a punishment for the parents in most cases.

To keep on a ground I know, life is still a punishment for my father 64 years after his birth for being an unwanted child. Something he was not responsible of but definitely was the victim.
You all anti-abortionnists always think about the parents responsibilities and never about the child's future feelings, likely to be really unbalanced, and the way he or she will pass it to his own children.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Don't forget about the Soviet ape soldiers...

Scenario 1: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. We are not right for each other, we try a couple of years but it fails. Child is left fatherless/motherless or perhaps has to grow up with two parents hating each other. Alternatively has to spend every other week/year/whatever in Austria and England.

Scenario 2: I make a girl pregnant, she does NOt give birth. We split up, she now has a child and is married, I have a new girlfriend.

Now, explain why scenario 1 is better than scenario 2?

Scenario A: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. We are not right for each other, we try a couple of years but it fails. Child is left fatherless/motherless or perhaps has to grow up with two parents hating each other. Alternatively has to spend every other week/year/whatever in Austria and England.

Scenario B: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. So we kill the infant, we split up, she now has another child and is married, I have a new girlfriend.

Now, explain why scenario A is better than scenario B?

[rory_20_uk]

Scenario A: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. We are not right for each other, we try a couple of years but it fails. Child is left fatherless/motherless or perhaps has to grow up with two parents hating each other. Alternatively has to spend every other week/year/whatever in Austria and England.

Scenario B: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. So we kill the infant, we split up, she now has another child and is married, I have a new girlfriend.

Now, explain why scenario A is better than scenario B?

Doesn't sound much better to me.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Doesn't sound much better to me.

So you support infanticide?

[rory_20_uk]

So you support infanticide?

Well, you know the phrase: "ask a stupid question..."

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Don't forget about the Soviet ape soldiers...



Scenario A: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. We are not right for each other, we try a couple of years but it fails. Child is left fatherless/motherless or perhaps has to grow up with two parents hating each other. Alternatively has to spend every other week/year/whatever in Austria and England.

Scenario B: I make a girl pregnant, she gives birth. So we kill the infant, we split up, she now has another child and is married, I have a new girlfriend.

Now, explain why scenario A is better than scenario B?

There is also option C, which is adoption.