Obama disappoints me...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I agree.

But the alternative would be to refute their own right wing base, which is tantamount to political suicide.

Indeed. Watch how even their leadership crumbles like a stale cookie when they offend their party chairman, Rush Limbaugh. You can't say anything critical about Rush, or else you can't win an election as a Republican. It sickens me. The man is a lunatic in my opinion.

[Louis VI the Fat]

It's certainly not an official GOP effort. If anything, it's the right wing radio coterie who're taking point here. I don't believe any GOP leader has attempted to organize this "strategy," I just think they're sitting there hoping to profit from it if it works or use the plausible deniability if it doesn't.

I'm afraid I can't share this rosy picture of the GOP campaign.

What of Palin's 'Obama doesn't see America the way you and I see America' remarks? These were not off-hand remarks, but written speeches at rallies. The 'play on fear' card was pulled in September / October. The tone and content of the campaign at this stage were designed to exploit the reservations among the electorate about Obama. It created, however, so much backlash that it was quickly dropped - the sight of Palin whipping her audience into a frenzy looked far too agressive for the moderate centrist vote.

McCain himself, who had to appear more predsidential, kept himself aloof of playing on the sentiment.

[PershsNhpios]

I think the most important thing is that Obama is an almost black man with a name that rhymes with Osama.

In this way, America has the support of Africa and the kingdom of the Middle-East.

Europe is busy trying to eliminate culture and Australia is on a leash.

Asia is mostly occupied with making our T-shirts for us, but wait!

What about China? That's where WWIII comes in!

Obama will do just fine, he just needs to smile and nod!

[rvg]

I think the most important thing is that Obama is an almost black man with a name that rhymes with Osama.

In this way, America has the support of Africa and the kingdom of the Middle-East.

Europe is busy trying to eliminate culture and Australia is on a leash.

Asia is mostly occupied with making our T-shirts for us, but wait!

What about China? That's where WWIII comes in!

Obama will do just fine, he just needs to smile and nod!

Que?

[LittleGrizzly]

Hardly. As I said, I don't think the "Messiah" level of hysteria has been seen since perhaps JFK.

Sure he's fairly popular, in Europe this is only because he replaced the lord of darkness, in America he isn't even that popular if you compare him to Reegan...

They did have the snazzy marketing campaign, better soundbytes, and a better speaker,

So did Bush vs Gore... partys with the better marketing campaign and better off the others often win... our politics is based to much on charisma but this isn't a new Obama problem...

The right didn't create the Obamamessiah perception...

Well 95% of the time i heard that phrase used it is by a right winger, the other 5% would be some sarcastic leftys...

The thing some people see Obama as a symbol of hope for the future... in other words they are optimistic about what he can do for the country...

Like people often are when they elect politicians close to thier political views...

The whole Obamessiah is the creation the right who can't fathom any other reason how they could have lost...

[Spino]

Hardly. As I said, I don't think the "Messiah" level of hysteria has been seen since perhaps JFK.

This is true. But Kennedy's popularity is that much more impressive when you consider he barely beat Nixon in the 1960 election (a razor close popular vote, especially in key states) and he didn't have a mammoth mass marketing machine working overtime for his campaign like Obama.

The whole Obamessiah is the creation the right who can't fathom any other reason how they could have lost...

Uh, sort of, not really, maybe. The messiah tag is certainly a label given to Obama by the right but most conservatives know why they lost; the low popularity of GW Bush, the economic implosion and the 'blah' effect McCain had on conservative voters are what sealed the deal for Obama. McCain might have been able to pull it off had only one, perhaps two of those factors been in play but all three? Not a chance. The fact that the overall voter turnout was roughly the same in 2008 (60.7-61.7%) as it was in 2004 (60.6%) is also a telling statistic how unenthusiastic conservative voters were about McCain. I also believe the fact that some nobody of little note or experience with questionable associations like Obama could just take the short cut to the Presidency is what unsettled many people, it certainly made me question the sanity and intelligence of my fellow Americans (then again, so did the two presidents prior to Obama).

The cult of personality surrounding Obama has come as a shock to many moderates and liberals as well (of the latter particularly those who were big Hillary supporters). The show staff I work with here at CNN is fairly liberal (from what I can tell not rabidly so) and there were many times on the campaign trail when they were either amused or in absolute disbelief over the 'acute' Obamamania that afflicted people. This was especially apparent when Obama visited Europe and gave that speech in Berlin. I mean seriously, like most Americans most Europeans had no clue who the hell Obama was prior to the presidential campaign and yet there were throngs of overly enthusiastic people, sheeple and wacked out loonies scrambling over each other for a handshake. The snickers and comments from our staff were plentiful. I mean typically there's always a few overzealous fans or loonies in a given crowd for any political candidate but Obama seemed to attract them in droves.

[LittleGrizzly]

Yeah i would pretty much agree with what you said there...

I would like to point out that most of the reason europeans like obama so much is because they disliked bush so much... add in the fact he wants to sort out global warming and believes in more cooperation with european allies and that is the majority of the reason they like him so much...

Then the fact he is charismatic and good looking just add to the effect...

To explain it from a personal point of view...

I would be intrested in any American president giving a speech

I would probably not go to see Bush give a speech as american president as i disagree with his views strongly...

I like Obama's policys a bit more so i would be more likely see him...

After Bush I would be far more likely to go see Obama as its something much better imo...

Obviously there are people who have been carried away by his personality and charisma but isn't that just true to different extents for plenty of political candidates though history...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Sure he's fairly popular, in Europe this is only because he replaced the lord of darkness, in America he isn't even that popular if you compare him to Reegan...

Is it really because he replaced "The Lord of Darkness"? I'm not too sure about that. I know about his popularity in America, and I didn't say that the whole population thought of him in that way - just Europeans, Canadians, and the occasional American lefty.

So did Bush vs Gore... partys with the better marketing campaign and better off the others often win... our politics is based to much on charisma but this isn't a new Obama problem...

I didn't say it was a problem. You said that Obama hadn't won because he had the better marketing campaign, soundbytes, and speaker. He did, at least in part.

Well 95% of the time i heard that phrase used it is by a right winger, the other 5% would be some sarcastic leftys...

We may have created the phrase, we did not create the attitude (but if you're curious, there is video on YouTube of hardcore left-wingers hero worshipping Obama and calling him the Messiah - non-sarcastically).

The thing some people see Obama as a symbol of hope for the future... in other words they are optimistic about what he can do for the country...

The difference between optimism and adulation?

The whole Obamessiah is the creation the right who can't fathom any other reason how they could have lost...

Answered at least in part by Spino.

[Lemur]

We may have created the phrase, we did not create the attitude (but if you're curious, there is video on YouTube of hardcore left-wingers hero worshipping Obama and calling him the Messiah - non-sarcastically).

I don't know what you're talking about ...



... oh. Um. Well.

You want to know why we worship the Obamessiah and scatter rose petals before his feet? Because he sleeps with a frickin' UNICORN. When's the last time we had a Prez with his own pet unicorn, hmmmmmmm?

[LittleGrizzly]

Is it really because he replaced "The Lord of Darkness"?

Yes, the slightly less evil lord of greyness would seem like a good guy compared. So Obama because he talks a good game seems like a saint next to Bush

I didn't say it was a problem. You said that Obama hadn't won because he had the better marketing campaign, soundbytes, and speaker. He did, at least in part.

what i said was

Those damn opposition we had the better ideas but they had the snazzy market campaign or the better soundbytes or more advertising or a better speaker...

I was simply imagining what a republican may think of Obama's election, i said nowhere that this wasn't true

Infact in my next post i said....

So did Bush vs Gore... partys with the better marketing campaign and better off the others often win... our politics is based to much on charisma but this isn't a new Obama problem...

What i was saying is that people choosing politicians based on thier charisma, speaking ability or simply because they see more adverts from one candidate is a problem in our democracys most of the time. It is not a new Obama problem and plenty of candidates could have the charge levelled at them that they won purely because of charisma, speaking ability and a bigger advertising budget...

We may have created the phrase

yes

we did not create the attitude

The attitude porbably exsits with most politicians new on the scene, as spino said typically there's always a few overzealous fans or loonies in a given crowd for any political candidate. What you/the right did was take the few overzealous loonies and try to make it seem like a far bigger portion than it actually is and overplay its effects on the elections...

The difference between optimism and adulation?

This is pretty simple...

Nani manchester united's young winger... im optimistic he will become a great winger.. i don't adore him as a great winger...

I answered the part that spino referred to about europeans... if thats the part of spino's post you refer to ?

[PershsNhpios]

Hmmm,

yes I think it is time that nations started worshipping their leaders as deities again.

In this way, everything they do can be ascribed to a higher and immortal wisdom which we can not grasp.

[Adrian II]

Is this where I spout baseless accusations about Obama's personality, his family, his race or words he never said, only to be corrected by Louis or Lemur who maintain that there are different sides to an issue and that the truth might actually be worth pursuing?

Good.

I liked his Notre Dame speech on abortion. After the verbal diarrhea we were accustomed to in the past eight years or more, I was relieved to see a President looking for middle ground in this politicised debate and proposing that each side attempt to understand and meet the concerns of the other. It's only words so far, I know, but it beats grunting and throwing faeces.

[Ser Clegane]

*throws faeces at Adrian for being too middle ground*

(I think we need a new smiley for that ... but then - maybe not)

[Adrian II]

*throws faeces at Adrian for being too middle ground*

Impossible. From what I remember from the debates we used to have, you occupy the entire middle ground all by yourself.

[LittleGrizzly]

If Obama can change Abortion in America to much more like what we have over here in Europe then that will quite simply be amazing.

For to long Abortion has been an issue that forces decent percentages of the electorate to stick solidly to one party, this means people will vote for the most useless of politicians simply because they check one box they feel passionately about...

This would then lead them to look at other far more important issues, like civil liberties, the economy ect.

[Ser Clegane]

you occupy the entire middle ground all by yourself.

Are you calling me fat?

On topic (to avoid having to warn myself) - my feelings are a bit mixed. There is some disappointment - partly just because expectations became so jazzed up over time that a certain let down was unavoidable - partly because there was the (unrealistic) hope that a new president might give enough impetus to miraculously provide some energy for the ailing economy.

OTOH it is nice to have a feeling of "normality" again after almost a decade of the US being unfairly and frequently associated with just the president (and I hope we will not see it the other way around now - that everybody outside the US just thinks about Obama when talking about the US).

On the specific abortion topic - let's hope - middle ground seems to be what also the majority of our US friends (on this board and elsewhere) would like to dominate the discussion in order to finally come to a compromise that ends the oscillating between extremes.

[Xiahou]

I liked his Notre Dame speech on abortion. After the verbal diarrhea we were accustomed to in the past eight years or more, I was relieved to see a President looking for middle ground in this politicised debate and proposing that each side attempt to understand and meet the concerns of the other. It's only words so far, I know, but it beats grunting and throwing faeces.

Talk is cheap. Where's the action? Obama has been a reliable supporter of unfettered abortion on demand. Where's his middle ground? What is he giving up in compromise from his side? Nothing, from what I've seen. The speech was completely disingenuous.

[Adrian II]

Where's the action middle ground?

Fixed it.

[Xiahou]

Now here's some feces.

Sobbing Kindergarteners Snubbed for Steelers?

Thursday was supposed to be the highlight of the year for more than 100 kindergarteners from Stafford County, Va. They got up early and took a chartered bus to the White House for a school field trip. But when they arrived, all the 5-year-olds got was a lesson in disappointment.

A group of young students didn't get to tour the White House, and they say it's because of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

The buses from Conway Elementary arrived at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue a little later than planned, and they were locked out.

"We were going to the White House, but we couldn’t get in so I felt sad," 5-year-old Cameron Stine said.

Parents say they were just 10 minutes late for their scheduled tour. School officials say White House staff said they needed to get ready for the president's event with the Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers, so they couldn't come in.

[Adrian II]

Kindergarteners Snubbed for Steelers Secret Muslim Cabal to Plot Overthrow of Western Civ

Fixed it.

[KukriKhan]

Impossible. From what I remember from the debates we used to have, you occupy the entire middle ground all by yourself.

Impossible. Though perhaps too quiet at times, I fancy myself as having occupied Ser Clegane's middle ground shoulder-to-shoulder with him.

As have you, in the end. I observe.

The Kindergarteners vs Steelers thing: = teh bad. I'd like to think the Steelers, had they known of the conflict, would have accomodated a mutual event. Lousy PR management by 1600.

[Marshal Murat]

As I understand it, there's alot of "Obamamessiah" not just because of those fringe loonies that Obama could attract, but the mere fact that he was black and bringing "change" and "hope" to America. Those nebulous concepts of happiness and pride which inspired millions of college students to stand up and say "I'll vote for a better future!" (Ironically, they probably will feel the effects of this recession long after Obama leaves office). People didn't want to vote for "evil old white Republican" but wanted to vote for "progressive feel-good black Democrat"

As a middle-grounder (I actually think my dot is the most middlygroundest of all dots on the chart), I have to say that given expectations Obama and Dems have maintained some sense of decorum (I applaud his actions in Iraq and Afghanistan), while

1. Many of Obama's nominees to posts were back on taxes
2. Iran has continued to enrich uranium
3. Pelosi + CIA = What?
4. Detainees, wha...oh yeah, those detainees. No, I thought they were staying with you.

I believe Roosevelt (Teddy) wrote something about how many nations are protected by strong-men not because they're using force against foes, but that they're willing to do so.

[CountArach]

I am as disappointed with Obama as I expected to be. His foreign policy shows little structural change to most previous President's (Though I never expected otherwise) and I think he has horribly mishandled the entire torture issue. However, I expeccted nothing more than this from him and I am pleasantly surprised by some of the things he has done stimulus package-wise.

[Adrian II]

Impossible. Though perhaps too quiet at times, I fancy myself as having occupied Ser Clegane's middle ground shoulder-to-shoulder with him.

As have you, in the end. I observe.

Maybe.

But have you considered the change of atmosphere in the backroom since I joined? We used to have a pretty vocal right wing; they used Pindar as a flying wedge (yes, we all know that's illegal since 1906, but Pindar always found a loophole ) and they had receivers like Gawain and Panzerjaeger that were so far out to the right they made the Lemur look like a Communist.

It wudn't pretty. But we had some great fun.

[KukriKhan]

Maybe.

But have you considered the change of atmosphere in the backroom since I joined? We used to have a pretty vocal right wing; they used Pindar as a flying wedge (yes, we all know that's illegal since 1906, but Pindar always found a loophole ) and they had receivers like Gawain and Panzerjaeger that were so far out to the right they made the Lemur look like a Communist.

It wudn't pretty. But we had some great fun.

There's no denying any of that. True, all of it.

Somehow, some way, we, as a group, have managed to drop some of the invective from our arguments. Positions, and motivations get examined in greater detail, and "winning" isn't nearly as important as actually more fully comprehending an issue.

Hey, snappy siggy there; that Herodotus guy should could turn a phrase. :)

[Adrian II]

Hey, snappy siggy there; that Herodotus guy should could turn a phrase. :)

Sources of wisdom found everywhere, even in ordinary river.

[KukriKhan]

Sources of wisdom found everywhere, even in ordinary river.

He never disappoints.