Edukashun, edukashun, edukashun!

[Scurvy]

I'm not sure I like the formula, but the principle is right, if 2 people get the same grades, and have similar UCAS statements/ equivelent, then the person at the 'poorer' school should get the nod, its common sense. The problem comes when the consideration becomes disproportionate.

I am never convinced by claims that exams are getting easier. It couldn't possibly be that the education system is better, or kids actually work hard As someone who did GCSE's, A-Levels etc. recently, it is never nice to see your hard being written off.

It is certainly true that A-levels and GCSE's are becoming harder for universities to use in choosing potential students (for whatever reason). I think an A* grade has been added for A-Leveks this year, and I am very much in favour of re-catagorizing the marks into smaller bands (say 90% A*, 80% A etc.)

Just to note, someone who goes to Private school, and gets a decent set of grades will get into a good University - the issue imo is over the high level universities, the top 5 or so, where everyone is getting straight A's.

I also have immense sympathy with the government over education. If the results improve, the exams are getting easier/ the syllabus is aimed at exams/ the statistics have been manipulated. If results fall, the government is blamed for decreasing educational standards etc. They can't win.

[rory_20_uk]

A levels should be so that only the top 5% get As - so all grades have value. As it is anything below a C is worthless, and Bs are not great. Considering the list goes down to F, the distribution is very poorly skewed.

If this were the case then I would agree that goign to a worse school with the same grades should get in. But in a system where vast numbers all get the same grades this is unfair.

If I had children at that age I'd send them to a crappy school and pay for private tuition to get the grades.

[tibilicus]

A levels should be so that only the top 5% get As - so all grades have value. As it is anything below a C is worthless, and Bs are not great. Considering the list goes down to F, the distribution is very poorly skewed.

If this were the case then I would agree that goign to a worse school with the same grades should get in. But in a system where vast numbers all get the same grades this is unfair.

If I had children at that age I'd send them to a crappy school and pay for private tuition to get the grades.

This man talks sense.

The fact is that for most courses any University in the top 30 wants at least two A grades.

[Beskar]

A levels should be so that only the top 5% get As - so all grades have value.

It is a stupid idea. The value should be the demonstration of knowledge, not where you are ranked.

[rory_20_uk]

That's not what A levels are there for. They are there to differentiate candidates.
It's not like the Theory test for driving where as long as you're over the minimum it's OK (or Medicine, come to think of it...).

Your system would be OK with everyone having the same grades. So what do universities and employers do then? Most likely construct new exams - utterly undermining the point of A levels. That's stupid.

[Beskar]

No, the exams are certificates to say you are of the right standard. What does it care to Universities and Employers? "This person has proven advanced knowledge on the subject" ultimately, they are of the standard to do the course/job.

The rating system from A to E depicts the standard of knowledge demonstration. It isn't a ranking system and education shouldn't be a ranking system.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I pity Britain. It'll be 3rd World in less than two decades, if current trends are not reversed.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No, the exams are certificates to say you are of the right standard. What does it care to Universities and Employers? "This person has proven advanced knowledge on the subject" ultimately, they are of the standard to do the course/job.

The rating system from A to E depicts the standard of knowledge demonstration. It isn't a ranking system and education shouldn't be a ranking system.

The grades demonstrate level of achievement, that achievement tells the universities etc. whether you are worth investing in.

Traditionally, anyone without all Bs was not. All As was considered a very good bet indeed.

Now the government's qualifications are useless as any kind of standard.

[rory_20_uk]

The grades demonstrate level of achievement, that achievement tells the universities etc. whether you are worth investing in.

Traditionally, anyone without all Bs was not. All As was considered a very good bet indeed.

Now the government's qualifications are useless as any kind of standard.

When my parents were applying to university Cambridge had ABB for several subjects. Now you're unlikely to get anything lower than AAA

[Crazed Rabbit]

No, the exams are certificates to say you are of the right standard. What does it care to Universities and Employers? "This person has proven advanced knowledge on the subject" ultimately, they are of the standard to do the course/job.

The rating system from A to E depicts the standard of knowledge demonstration. It isn't a ranking system and education shouldn't be a ranking system.

The problem is when schools lower the standard so more kids can pass and the teachers can say how good they are. Thus, the stupider kids get higher marks, so the Universities and employers can't tell the smart kids from the average ones.

CR

[naut]

To all non-British Orgahs the British education system is marked in an exceedingly odd fashion. Due to the "no-fail" policy. You can get 9 GCSEs for example, but they may in fact all be a grade of E which means you got 10%-20% on each of your foundation papers, but you still don't fail.

I'm not sure I like the formula, but the principle is right, if 2 people get the same grades, and have similar UCAS statements/ equivelent, then the person at the 'poorer' school should get the nod, its common sense. The problem comes when the consideration becomes disproportionate.

I disagree. Common sense should really be placed in jar next to discarded nonsense. The alternative? Yes it takes more time, but they really should ask both students in for an interview and assess which has the right attitude/determination etc., and then choose on their merits.

The article seems to be indicating that the Universities have to accept people in the following fashion:

Two students

• One who has 3 A* grades from a school with an average A grade applies
• One who has 3 B* grades from a school with an average D grade applies

Why should the B* student get the spot? In terms of marks they have only got 40% on a higher level paper or 70% on a foundation paper? It makes no sense! The A* student has got 80%-85% plus on a higher level paper. They are obviously the smarter/more studious student. IF the B* student is actually worthy there should be an alternate means where they can apply and actually have a face to face application where the University can decide if they warrant a spot.

(A little google fishing seems to indicate this too).

[drone]

Sorry for being an ignorant yank, but are these A-levels/GCSE tests standardized across the country? Is a student in the worst Manc slum being graded against the same questions as the posh kid in Chelsea?

[Beskar]

As a point, both GCSE's and A-levels are basically scrapped in the country, being replaced by a diploma system which will be fully introduced by the time our 11 year olds reach the age of 16.

GCSE - General Certificate of Secondary Education. This is the national test where everyone in England take the same exams and get graded on. So one person one side of the country gets graded the same as some one else on the other side.

AS/A - (Advanced Subsidiary and Advanced level) in also the same as GCSE in this regard.

[rory_20_uk]

As a point, both GCSE's and A-levels are basically scrapped in the country, being replaced by a diploma system which will be fully introduced by the time our 11 year olds reach the age of 16.

GCSE - General Certificate of Secondary Education. This is the national test where everyone in England take the same exams and get graded on. So one person one side of the country gets graded the same as some one else on the other side.

AS/A - (Advanced Subsidiary and Advanced level) in also the same as GCSE in this regard.

Not quite true. There are several different boards that set the exams and many are known to differ in standards. Market forces dictate that easy exams will attract schools who want to maximise their good results.

A better system would be to get the top 10 universities in the given field responsibility to set GCSEs and A levels

[Beskar]

They are being scrapped anyway and we are moving to a diploma system. So it is really pointless to discuss them, and if anything, discuss the diploma system.

[rory_20_uk]

Moving deckchairs on the Titanic. The basic underlying problems are being studiously avoided:

1. The reasoning for increasing the school leaving age
2. The perceived quality of the exams - when universities and employers state they're getting worse it's time to worry.
3. The widespread lack of drive to succeed in school - lack of differential between benefits and working a 40 hour week?
4. Alternate pathways for non academic students - surely there's something better than pretending we're all equal until the poor sods hit 18?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

They are being scrapped anyway and we are moving to a diploma system. So it is really pointless to discuss them, and if anything, discuss the diploma system.

GCSE's and A Levels are not being scrapped, the idea has been put on the table, but the take up has been low, markers have laughed at the exams rather than cry in despair, and the current government will be out on its ear in less than a year.

So, not a done deal.

As regards exam boards, the two Welsh boards are considered the hardest, and Welsh language papers are harder than English ones.

To all those who say they have worked very hard on their A-Levels this year, I am sure you have. I also know my sisters exams this year were easier and less intellectually taxing than mine four years ago.

So, it seems that Labour has presided over a system that non only inflates grades, but lowers standards as well. Major may have started the slide, but it's got a hell of a lot worse in the last 12 years and it's not his fault.