How do you use cavalry?

[Dead Guy]

Yesterday I charged a Regiment of Horse, 60 strong, against a depleted line infantry unit of perhaps 70-80 men. The line unit had withdrawn out of mortar range and I just wanted to finish the battle, it was one of the last units in the enemy army, the rest were light infantry in hiding and I wanted to force them to reveal themselves to my artillery.

I charged my cavalry onto the infantrys flank, the infantry did not get to fire at the cavalry at all. The result of the melee? I withdraw my cavalry with less than 20 men remaining, the line infantry have 60 men remaining. This is by far the worst result I've had from a cavalry charge... perhaps it's because I charged their flank and not a lot of the cavalry got to impact with their charge. I've certainly had more success with cavalry charges head on, but then you usually get shot up a bit when closing.

Lately I've almost completely ceased using regular sabre armed horse in favor of light dragoons. I managed to wipe out an army of 2 infantry (1 melee and 1 shooting I think) and 1 cannon with 1 light dragoons by making them chase me a lot, firing at them some and then withdrawing and finally charging the musket-armed infantry unit head on when they were tired, continuing through them, reforming and charging them again before they had a chance to fire again. The advisor was yelling at me to run away before the battle of course :p

Regular cavalry certainly slaughter light infantry if they don't get to fire too much, but sometimes it seems like cavalry is pretty useless against line infantry?
Furthermore, charging your cavalry into an ongoing melee will frequently kill too many of your own infantry to be viable, which I think is a good thing compared to previous games where not even elephants would kill your own men unless they were out of control, iirc. Which takes away from the old lock line and rear charge tactic of old I guess.

So, how do you guys use cavalry? Charge after the lines have started exchanging volleys? From the flanks, or from behind your line?

Cheers

[Didz]

First observation I would make is that if the unit was 60 strong it would not have been cavalry but dragoons. I tend to use dragoons instead of cavalry simply because their unit size is larger, but their melee ability is lower than proper cavalry and they don't have the same shock acction.

Second observation is that you don't mention what type of infantry you charged. Some infantry in the game are melee infantry and thus designed for hand to hand combat.

Finally, to get the most out of cavalry you have to micro-manage them. Thats why I don't use them much, because I can't be bothered with all the clicking necessary. I consider myself the general when playing ETW not a sergeant. However, to use cavalry efectively you need to charge them into the enemy infantry and then as soon as the impact bonus wears off withdraw them at full gallop again, reform and charge them in again. If you can spare the time to manage one unit this way whilst the rest your army fights by itself them you will get much better results. Once cavalry have stopped moving and are fighting in a melee they are very vulnerable, a guy on a horse is easy to kill if he stops moving.

Regular cavalry certainly slaughter light infantry if they don't get to fire too much, but sometimes it seems like cavalry is pretty useless against line infantry?

This is mainly because the game has been badly designed.

In practise infantry in line was very vulnerable to cavalry. Not because cavalry charged into them knocking men halfway across a football field as depicted in the game, but because horses don't charge into solid objects and lines have lots of intervals between companies and batalions that allow the cavalry to pass through and cut down the men as they ride through the gaps.

More importantly, the men in the line know this, and so when the cavalry approach if they are unlucky enough to be standing near such a gap, particularly if they happen to have an empty musket, their natural reaction is to want to be somewhere else. Hence, most infantry units charged in line will fall apart even before the cavalry charge home as the men try to find a spot that makes them less likely to be cut down.

There have been exceptions of course (e.g. The Battle of Minden) but these are few and far between and most infantry caught in line by cavalry are running before the cavalry even reach them, because they know whats going to happen.

What should happen in ETW is that any infantry within charge range and line of sight of cavalry should automatically form square, unless ordered not to by the player (like 'Silly Billy' in Sharpes Waterloo). This would give cavalry its true role as an infantry suppressor on an ETW battlefield. Having forced the infantry to halt and form square the player can then bring up his own guns or infantry and blast the squares to pulp, keeping his cavalry handy for when they finally fall apart and can be chased down and killed.

This in turn would force the enemy to bring their own cavalry along to drive off the enemy cavalry and allow their infantry to keep moving. An army without cavalry is therefore very vulnerable to an enemy that does simply because it will get pinned down and defeated in detail.

[al Roumi]

Personaly I use cavalry to:
1. Guard the flanks of my centre (infantry)
2. Engage other cavalry
3. Chase routers
4. Engage isolated enemy units (e.g. un-guarded artillery, skirmishers...)
5. Guard the rear of my skirmishers or other flanking units like horse arty (also deployed to the flanks of my centre)
6. If i can, and only if the melee is deep enough, I will flank or charge the rear of the enemy centre.

I've noticed that when attacking/moving through infantry, it is possible to avoid friendly casualties by avoiding attack orders (e.g. double clicking on an enemy unit) by double-clicking on the ground instead.

[MilesGregarius]

First observation I would make is that if the unit was 60 strong it would not have been cavalry but dragoons.

On my settings - Ultra, I think - cavalry are 60, dragoons, 80.

As to the OP, I find cavalry very effective against low morale infantry, not so much against quality foot.

I agree that they often need quite a bit of micromanaging to be effective.

To alh_p's list, I would add charging enemy units already engaged by my foot and providing a mobile reserve, though I prefer dragoons for this last. Point 4 is especially relevant against the AI as it rarely seems to leave much protection for its arty.

[crpcarrot]

all mounted units seemvery weak even when charign even from behind. game designs porblems aside taking a lone cavalry unit 1on1 against another unit does not seem efficeint. using wedge seems to make a lot of differece and also i try to sue cavalry to casue a rout rather than actually kill infantry. if u get infantry flanked one charge jsut a fter a volley from your own infantry could be all it takes for the enemy to rout.

[Dead Guy]

As has been pointed out, I play on another unit size setting than Didz, it was not Dragoons, but Regiment of Horse. The infantry charged was, as I wrote in my post, Line Infantry (albeit without capital letters). Perhaps that term is too ambiguous, sorry. The regular european kind anyway, they aren't exactly weak in melee though I guess...

Yeah, I can't really be bothered to micro one unit for a longer period of time either. Most of the time I find myself adjusting my flanking infantry to trap the enemy in as much musket fire as possible, and shifting my artillery to the proper targets, i.e. howitzers on something that's not too close, cannon on something really close that will be hurting from a good cannister.

That's also why I don't really use my light dragoons that much either, they take way too long to form up after moving even just a little.

I usually run them up behind artillery that has been deployed behind those fortifications, because then they have a really tight field of fire and can't turn. Otherwise I find I get a cannister in the face too often when trying to kill arty with cavalry, maybe I should try to get them to fire a ball at me and then charge... Still I prefer to kill arty with arty, mortars or that long range cannister, shrapnel?

Hmm maybe it could be worthwhile to try to force the enemy line infantry into square with cavalry... I've seen them forming squares in front of my line sometimes and it really isn't doing them any good to say the least...

[anweRU]

First observation I would make is that if the unit was 60 strong it would not have been cavalry but dragoons.

Normal settings:
Most cavalry = 45 men
Most dragoons = 60 men
BUT:
Swedish cavalry = 60 men
Swedish dragoons = 75 men

[Didz]

Hmm maybe it could be worthwhile to try to force the enemy line infantry into square with cavalry... I've seen them forming squares in front of my line sometimes and it really isn't doing them any good to say the least...

Yeah! I've noticed it a few times, often not when under significant threat, and then other times they don't when they ought to, seems a bit random to me. But basically, cavalry that stop moving are quite rightly dead. So, unless you micro-manage them you will suffer heavy losses.

[Daveybaby]

I like to use my cavalry in the same way that the AI does, i.e. charge them backwards and forwards right in front of the enemy lines until theyre all dead.

[SMZ]

as others already mentioned, the key to cavalry is to charge with them, and then as soon as the impetus of their charge is blunted, double-click them either back the way they came (if the enemy is tightly bunched and standing strong) or straight on thru the enemy unit (if the enemy is loosely formed and/or wavering morale)

often times you may think your cavalry has failed to break the enemy with their charge, but telling them to move thru the enemies formation and out the other side will destroy the enemy morale - which is pretty nice actually to see that the game models shock of the formation being dissolved just as much as actual casualties being taken

if its a particularly sturdy infantry unit however, you need to move back the direction you came so your cavalry don't get bogged down trying to force their way thru and slaughtered... there aren't many units that can take more than two charges, with the second charge followed up by the cavalry forcing their way on thru and out the backside of the formation

oh - and war elephants are absolutely deadly if you can get them into melee with the enemy... they can easily destroy an entire line of battle by themselves by always clicking onto the next unit as soon as the charge against one is finished - i've found that camels pretty much suck however for anything other than scaring horses

[Prussian to the Iron]

cavalry is tricky in this time period; if you try to charge anything with a numreical superiority and/or bayonets, odds are you will end up with a depleted unit.

on the other hand, they are godly at defeating artillery. just make sure not to EVER charge head-on at any artillery equipped with canister or shrapnel shot. take them from behind if you have no other choice. you can lose upwards of 30 men (playing on ultra settings) and get routed before contact, or you can rout the enemy artillery and lose maybe 15 men.

i know this from experience on both sides of these charges. just last night, i routed 3 full units of swedish cavalry using only shrapnel shot. plus i only had half of my cannons being used due to casualties from before.

[Xipe Totec]

I like to have as little cavalry as possible, and during the battle keep them somewhere safe (behind the infantry) until the nasty men go away. Then they are quite useful to pursue already beaten men, as long as they are no fences or other obstacles to trip over, and no sneaks hiding in the bushes.

One cavalry unit is useful to finish off a routing AI pillager force which would otherwise burn down a plantation etc. after running away. Totally impotent against infantry in a building of course.

The upkeep costs are ruinous to the early game economy. Artillery seem to decimate cavalry with every shot. I lost most of a charging Sipahi unit to one blast of grapeshot from one cannon. Even a group of brave Native American lancers charging en masse will be stopped dead by one decent infantry unit in square formation.

It is too annoying to let the routers get away to have no cavalry at all in an army, and in my current Maratha campaign the generals are on elephants and couldn't run down a tortoise, whilst the lancers look way too cool skewering dervishes like some crazed park-keeper picking up litter. On the whole I think cavalry is largely an anachronism in this game. Considering how influential it was during the early part of the Napoleonic wars this may reflect some inbalance in the game.

I'd be interested if anyone has had any success as a cavalry spammer in ETW?

[Prussian to the Iron]

i am the exact same person as you cavalry-use wise.

in my marathas campaign, i like to use a general, 10 Sikh or bargir infantry, and 7 artillery(usually large mortars and 24lbers +rockets). the other 2 slots i usually keep 2 units of sipahis in reserve behind my line, ready to pounce and run down routers.

i like using camel missile infantry(cant remember in-game name) because they have a range of 90 and are recruitable from the get-go. so i sometimes have a unit fo them and a unit of sipahis to chase down routers, but they can also support the main line at any point.

with marathas, deterring a cavalry charge is difficult; you never get trenches, mines, stakes, anything. all the fortifications you get once entrenched is some baskets in front of your artillery. luckily square formation is way overpowered.

one time, a mughal unit of musketeers were in a square formation vesus 2 units of bargigr lancers. they formed up as i charged, and had only part of the formation ready. then i died. bull $#%^.


square formations are drastically misrepresented in-game. rather than squares of infantry used to repel cavalry, they are simply used as squares that not only allow cavalry to charge into them, but also give an enormous bonus against cavalry. the formation itself gives no physical defense against anything. all it does in real life is repel cavalry, who wont charge into a square of bayonets. i think that cavalry should immediately retreat back to their own lines after closing into within charge range of a square formation.

[nanoboy]

Oh, cavalry are useful, though less so than in previous Total War incarnations. In ETW, you can use them in several ways:

1. Remember the old trick with cavalry that works in every Total War game? You know, you have your infantry engaged in melee with another unit, and you charge your cavalry into the rear? Yeah, that still works pretty well in ETW.

2. Another variation on 1 is to charge at a unit engaged in a shootout with your infantry. For the best results, set your cavalry at some safe distance from the flank of an infantry unit that is in a shooting contest with your line. Note that you should do this on the enemy's flank, because you don't want to soak stray musket balls from your own troops. When your line fires its last volley before a reload, charge. Soon after hitting, either get out, or charge your line infantry at the unit. It's less effective than 1, but it still often works.

3. Take out their artillery. Others have mentioned this, but cavalry are pretty decent at eliminating unguarded artillery, and the AI is pretty good at leaving artillery unguarded. Take the long way around, though, because artillery likes the bigger cavalry targets. The very best at this are dragoons, since you can maneuver around the artillery and then shoot them without taking casualties.

4. Take out light infantry. Unless they've deployed stakes, light infantry (including the dreaded Native American Bowmen) are vulnerable to cavalry charges. Since they're usually deployed on the flanks or rear of an enemy force, they're typically exposed, too.

5. Beat up moving infantry. If you use a quick charge and retreat, you can do significant casualties to marching infantry. If they're standing still, forget it, though.

6. Make the AI do something stupid. The AI likes to do several stupid things with your cavalry. If it gets nearby, they'll put their infantry into square formation. Let them, and then shoot them up with ranged weapons. They also like to send a unit or two of infantry out on a cavalry hunt. You can use this to keep those infantry occupied and possibly to exhaust them. If you can, you should also consider drawing that infantry into a trap.

I rarely use very many units of cavalry, but those applications have helped to win battles.

[Prodigal]

May have already been touched on, but as far as cav goes their main purpose for me is cannon suppression, occasionally they can be used as lures to keep the line inf off. They're weak on attacks, but keeping them moving though seems to have the desired affect.

[Fisherking]

I usually use light dragoons if I have that choice.

They can shoot up their intended targets before a charge. I group them in pairs so one is always on the enemy flank and they are caught in a crossfire. They can take on most any unit in that respect.

I mainly use them early to take out the enemy artillery and then to support the infantry by attacking the enemy’s rear when they close for melee.

Squares cause too many casualties to charging cavalry but their divided fire power make forming a square against dragoons suicide.

[Servius]

I use Dragoons early on, and have toyed with Reg. of Cav. but haven't been very impressed. The larger unit size for Dragoons helps their survivability and improves the odds for breaking morale.

I agree that cav in ETW is less powerful than in previous TW games, and that doesn't really bother me. Heavy Cav was the powerhouse in nearly all earlier games (except maybe RTW), but I feel that Line of Foot really shine in ETW and I think that's rightly so.

I use cav primarily to mob up routers at the end of a battle. I also put them on the flanks and use them to more quickly encircle the enemy forces as Line Infantry are kinda slow and clumbsy when you ask them to change their facing too drastically. I usually end up having Line Infantry forming a big C around the enemy and then charging my cav in from the open portion of the C, into the rear of the enemy line. I'm happy that the battle AI seems to do a good job of keeping my Line Infantry from firing when friendly units are too much in the firing arc, so I can charge into this shooting gallery pretty safely.

I haven't had access to any lance-based cavalry in my GB or Prussian campaigns. I tried Malta and Papal States once and I think they get them. I think France might too, so I'll have to give that a shot. The lance-based forces have much better melee and charge values at the cost of defense, but since we seem to still want to use cavalry primarily for a charge that breaks units, my guess is that the lance-based cav units in ETW would do a better job. I'll have to try and see if that's true.

[Skott]

I dont use cavalry a lot in my armies. I'd rather have an Line infantry unit or a artillery unit but when I do use them I use them to secure my ends or to fend off enemy cavalry attacks that try to go round behind and get my artillery and of course I use cavalry to chase down routers.

Like others have said cavalry in this game are not that strong or important in the hands of a human player. The AI seems to get better use of them than I can for some reason. If I charge my cavalry in they dont do as much damage and seem to take more damage. Plus getting the timing right is hard. The AI however doesnt seem to have a timing problem and its attacks do more damage.

What I do use cavalry for quite often is for raiding undefended towns, farms, mines, shops, and etc., They are really good for bleeding a region dry of income since they have a longer movement range than infantry. I prefer Dragoons since they can dismount and fight on foot if needed. Dragoons are great for crowd control in conquered capitols too. I use them for that more than any other thing in the game.

[Kulgan]

Not even the best cavalry such as life guards can actually hurt enemy line infantry, quite ridiculous!

Lateley I'v been using more and more light dragoons, playing mostly defensive battles I keep them behind the infantry line, shooting from horseback. When the opportunity presents it they charge rears/sides of enemy units, go after the enemy cannons and in the end chase down routers.

I love defending a slope with light infantry screen, then line infantry and behind them light dragoons : 3 rows of firepower + lots of horses to chase down routers. Ok light infantry isnt good but it gives flavour to your army. ( except long rifles offcourse )

[Daveybaby]

There really isnt that much point in chasing down routers in ETW - I find that most of the time the defeated army is totally destroyed without chasing down routers, so there's no longer the need to minimise the size of a surviving stack that there was in previous TW games. Also, no selling prisoners any more.

I tend to keep a maximum of 2 or 3 units of cavalry in a full stack, including the general. These get used for rapid mobile support for any line infantry engaged in melee with a large number of enemy.

The other use is, of course, for taking out that pesky enemy artillery. However this is starting to feel more and more like an exploit because the AI never seems to provide any kind of protection for it's arty, so i'm seriously considering banning myself from doing it in my next campaign.

[Didz]

Not even the best cavalry such as life guards can actually hurt enemy line infantry, quite ridiculous!

Not really ridiculous, in fact its historically accurate.

If used historically against broken and disrupted formations cavalry are quite deadly to infantry in ETW, the only really problem I have with the game is that the AI infantry doesn't react properly to the presence of cavalry.

Not only does it not panic enough when charged in line, but I've even had the AI target my cavalry deliberately with its infantry which is really annoying. Historically, only the British at Minden actually advanced on formed cavalry in line, and even then it was considered suicidal. At Minden the British had the discipline to hold their formation even when charged, and even though eyewitness accounts report that the French horse did manage to penetrate between the intervals of the Regiments on several occassions the men stood their ground and stayed in formation leaving the second line to deal with them.

There really isnt that much point in chasing down routers in ETW - I find that most of the time the defeated army is totally destroyed without chasing down routers, so there's no longer the need to minimise the size of a surviving stack that there was in previous TW games. Also, no selling prisoners any more.

I still do it though, as I discovered early on that the AI uses 'Routing' as a deception to extract units from awkward situations. The unit claims to be 'Routing' until it gets clear and then you see its status change to 'Running' and finally it turns and comes right back at you when and where you least expect it. Sending a cavalry unit to chase a 'Routing' unit down is usually enough to disperse it and make sure it doesn't reform.

[SMZ]

indeed, cavalry is good to make sure Routing units become Shattered units, which cannot reform...

also lance based cavalry is the only thing you should charge with... other types of cavalry have limited use - lance cavalry can destroy a unit of infantry... as long as they don't take volleys on their way there - cavalry as a whole requires a lot of tactical focus... you can't just release them and sit back... they need detailed management so that their charges can hit home

[Didz]

Couldn't find the name of the original poster, but I've been experimenting with his idea that one should click on a point beyond the target unit and run the cavalry through the formation rather than at it.

It actually seems to work quite well, but is best used when the target units cohesion has been disrupted by running or crossing an obstical. The movement of the cavalry through them seems to cause panic and lead to a quick rout.

[Kulgan]

@ Didz :

Historically there are tons of accounts where units of infantry become totally destroyed when being charged by heavy cavalry when they were not ready.

Prepared infantry in a square would repell any cavalry charge but when caught surprised, or rear/flank charged they would often insta rout and get slaughtered.

At least this is what I have read in books handling warfare throughout the musket era.

[Didz]

Historically there are tons of accounts where units of infantry become totally destroyed when being charged by heavy cavalry when they were not ready.

Yep! Thats what I said, and not just heavy cavalry. Just about any cavalry that catches an infantry unit unaware will destroy it. The basic problem was that infantry when operating normally need room to maneouvre, so that they can change formation and facing etc. Even in ancient warfare, formations of foot soldiers needed space to allow them to change facing to meet a new threat etc. However, these intervals between companies, ranks, battalions, maniples, pelatons etc. make them terribly vulnerable to cavalry. Thus when faced with cavalry they normally adopted a much denser formation specifically to prevent the horsemen getting in amongst them. Formations such as 'Square', 'Stand of Pike', and 'Schiltorns' were all designed to deny cavalry the invervals that they need to expliot in order to prise the infantry formations apart and rout them.

What didn't happen, except by accident, was a scenario where cavalry charged headlong into a formed unit of infantry. If the infantry didn't break formation and run before they reached them then the horses merely baulked or swerved away leaving the cavalry very vulnerable.

Prepared infantry in a square would repell any cavalry charge but when caught surprised, or rear/flank charged they would often insta rout and get slaughtered.

I've read several accounts of cavalry breaking a square, however, so far in every case there has been some accident or misunderstanding that rendered it possible for the horse to get past the bayonets and into the squares centre, effectively prising it open from the inside.

[Prussian to the Iron]

The lance-based forces have much better melee and charge values at the cost of defense, but since we seem to still want to use cavalry primarily for a charge that breaks units, my guess is that the lance-based cav units in ETW would do a better job. I'll have to try and see if that's true.

Marathas gets (I think) the best lancer cavalry in the game (Sipahis). Unless PL's Winged Hussars are lancer's, but then again they are in a different part of the world.

Lancers aren't as good as you might think. despite their enormous charge and great attack stats, i've seen militia defeat Sipahi's, and light infantry without stakes beat Winged Hussars!

basically the moral here is: the only thing non-dragoon or carbine cavalry are good for is chasing down routers, or charging the back of a melee-engaged infantry unit.

Also: if you are playing marathas: DO NOT get pindari horsemen!! it is a much better investment to get shaturnal camel gunners. they have 90 range and can kick ass in melee if you need them to, plus they are good versus cavalry :)

if you are playing meditteranean factions: get carabiners! better than dragoons.

[SMZ]

Lancers aren't as good as you might think. despite their enormous charge and great attack stats, i've seen militia defeat Sipahi's, and light infantry without stakes beat Winged Hussars!

only if the player doensn't pay attention - cavalry that gets bogged down will get slaughtered by the greater infantry numbers, larger target they present and (if playing on harder difficulties) the stat bonuses the AI gets... however, if you micro-manage your cavalry, they can still destroy armies

[Servius]

If you play as a western Euro nation that doesn't get lancers in their national army list, what's the most expeditious route to get lancers?

What are the regions where you can recruit lance-based cav?

[Prussian to the Iron]

i dont think that factions with no national lancers can recruit lancers. if they could, i would wager that maybe in north-west india or the southern ottoman empire for Sipahis?

[Prussian to the Iron]

only if the player doensn't pay attention - cavalry that gets bogged down will get slaughtered by the greater infantry numbers, larger target they present and (if playing on harder difficulties) the stat bonuses the AI gets... however, if you micro-manage your cavalry, they can still destroy armies

trust me; ive tried using the time-tested chrge-retreat-charge technique. no go.