Carthies in the new world?

[Watchman]

True, but you can do most of *that* sailing by coast-hugging - which indeed was more or less the standard for Mediterranean sea travel, far as I know. Not that Atlantic and Baltic sailors didn't mostly rely on that approach too of course.

Doesn't yet speak of ocean-crossing level of shipbuilding and navigational chutzpah, though obviously an even more salient issue is why they'd have sent an expedition into that featureless desert of open water in the first place...

The "blown astray by storm" theory might work, though I've my doubts about period Mediterranean ships' ability to withstand Atlantic storms - and there's also the obvious question of how they'd then get back...

[Aemilius Paulus]

Doesn't yet speak of ocean-crossing level of shipbuilding and navigational chutzpah, though obviously an even more salient issue is why they'd have sent an expedition into that featureless desert of open water in the first place...

Right again. I read that even Phoenicians were deathly afraid of the wide expanses of the Atlantic, and their coast-hugging was nowhere more apparent than in their Western African voyages.

The "blown astray by storm" theory might work, though I've my doubts about period Mediterranean ships' ability to withstand Atlantic storms - and there's also the obvious question of how they'd then get back...

Alto ugh I do not agree with the theory either, taking your stance on this issue, I do have to point out that storms are too unpredictable and varied to accurately assess the chances of a ship surviving it. There are simply too many factors and variables here.



As for the getting back part, there is nothing like desperation they say... Now, the main problem here is that the marooned Phoenicians would have no idea about the local winds and currents, much less the distance of water required to cover, as it is assumed that the deviation due to a storm was not accurately assesses....

Well, that is why I discount the hypothesis that Phoenicans could have made the voyage in the first place. This still, however, does not discount the possibility of Phoenicians wrecking or being trapped forever in the Americas. Which may still be possible, although, once again, I doubt it.


All this said, a brief glance at a globe(not just a map), will show the folly of such hypotheses, as the smallest distance between the Old and New Worlds is between Liberia and the triangular outer tip of Brazil. Phoenicians were not known to frequent Liberia, AFAIK. Hanno did it, and he was immortalised for it (although it is most likely he reached Cameroon, as testamented by his account of a volcano, the nearest ones which exists in Cameroon).

[Cute Wolf]

After reading those texts, I suppose:
1) Giving the lack of archeological evidence except that coins, we couldn't say that the Karthadastim had allready comes in America... the things will be diffrent if that coins was found on america...
2) The "Wolrd Map" printed on that coins are more likely some sort of religious symbols, or secret sign (such as runes)
3) The Phoenicians are merchants, and they concern about profits, if they really reach america, maybe the romans allready eat chocolate bars and using rubber slings...

[J.R.M]

Thx for all replys, i would like to say also that there is the possibility of going there accidentaly and never returning.

Poor guys.

[mountaingoat]

lol i'm sure it would not have sucked that badly over there.

there is the case of cocaine in ancient egypt and the olmec that seemed to bare "african features" .

there are many things that are not accounted for in history ... it would seem that much more had gone on then we are led to believe..

poke around a little , you might find some more info on this topic.

[Urg]

So the only evidence to support the hypothesis is a squiggle on the bottom of a coin, no larger than my fingertip?

If the Carthaginians knew about the Americas so well that they had maps on their coins, don't you think there would be some literary record?

Is there something I'm missing?

[Alsatia]

If there were such maps, most likely the parchment/papyrus/paper etc. which the map was drawn on rotted to dust. The Carthaginians would of not given it to the Romans, yet anyone else for that matter. If they found a way to come back and forth from America to the Meditteranean (which I myself find hard to believe) and found out how to communicate to the peoples there, they would have a monopoly in trade, as Carthaginians were more concerned with money and trade than many other things......