Hitting Women

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Based on the giggles and the laughter, apparently she thought it was funny. Which I supposed it would have been if she wasn't hitting so darn hard.

I certainly support the notion that a man should never, ever initiate violence with a woman. It's uncalled-for and unfair. But I can easily imagine situations in which self-defense would call for more than a gentle talking-down.

Very odd.

My housemate used to kick and punch me, so I'd just basically lie accross her sideways so that the blows could only land on my back. Then she's screach and giggle.

Now she's stopped hitting me and we aren't talking.

So I suppose I'm weirder!

[Beirut]

Great idea, what a wonderful way to escalate a situation...

I'll raise a crazed killer of a daughter before I raise one that submits to abusive men. Her bio-father was verbally abusive to her mother and she saw it at a young age. I'm breaking the mold here and now. Period.

And if that guy justifiably responds to assault?

Teach 'em young. If she has to pound one or two guys in the early high school years, the boys will always know not to disrespect her.

Any male of the species who puts a hand on her without her permission has sacrificed his nose and/or the future of his testicular proclivities.

[HoreTore]

I'll raise a crazed killer of a daughter before I raise one that submits to abusive men. Her bio-father was verbally abusive to her mother and she saw it at a young age. I'm breaking the mold here and now. Period.

...And what better way to ensure that, than by teaming her up with a nice socialist feminist? Perhaps even a Norwegian one, if you get my drift....

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

...And what better way to ensure that, than by teaming her up with a nice socialist feminist? Perhaps even a Norwegian one, if you get my drift....

No, he's repressed!

You want an honest, honourable, and chivalric Englishman. An unreconstructed medieval warrior who understands that to strike a woman is to die!

Not that I know anyone like that.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

No, he's repressed!

You want an honest, honourable, and chivalric Englishman. An unreconstructed medieval warrior who understands that to strike a woman is to die!

Unless, of course, she happens to be a witch.

[Beskar]

feminist? I have to be honest, can't really stand them. Every single action is classified as social stigma against women. For example, I once pushed open a heavy door and there was some one behind me, so I left it open with my hand so they can take it off me to get past and they just stood there. I turned around wondering "What the hell?" then it ended up being a jumped up feminist wanting to make a political statement on gender divide saying I am repressing her by opening the door and keeping it open. So I went "Okay then, last time I do you a favour" and I let go of the door, as she walked forward, not expecting how heavy the door actually was... *POW* and it made her fly backwards.

I sort of walked off, so I don't know what happened after that, I just know I heard something hit that door and the door won.

Oh, I am an egalitarian. Call yourself that, not feminist, if you are male. As wikipedia says it:

political doctrine that holds that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights. Generally it applies to being held equal under the law and society at large.

[CountArach]

feminist? I have to be honest, can't really stand them. Every single action is classified as social stigma against women.

The vast majority of feminists are not like this, just a small minority who really don't help feminism.

[rotorgun]

Unless, of course, she happens to be a witch.

I work with a lady who is a self proclaimed Wicca (Witch). Although she's my friend she is, shall we say rather eccentric. She's also pretty tough, and not many guys would try to hit her. I think they are more afraid that she will put some sort of spell on them.

Her decorative front bumper plate reads "My other vehicle is a broom"
That last smile is supposed to be a cat-woman.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The vast majority of feminists are not like this, just a small minority who really don't help feminism.

What's your basis for saying that? You aren't a feminist merely by believing that men and women should have equal rights. It implies a certain amount of social activism. And most social activists are a bit out there in my experience.

she walked forward, not expecting how heavy the door actually was... *POW* and it made her fly backwards.

I sort of walked off, so I don't know what happened after that, I just know I heard something hit that door and the door won.

I'll raise a crazed killer of a daughter before I raise one that submits to abusive men. Her bio-father was verbally abusive to her mother and she saw it at a young age. I'm breaking the mold here and now. Period.

I worry that she'll do it to the wrong guy and get her face smashed in. A harsh (and loud, especially in public) verbal rebuke is a far better strategy.

Don't hit women. It is always bad to hit women, if it is necessary, as in it's that or danger to yourself or someone else and there's no other option, then it can't be helped. But I expect that is almost never the case. I sympathize and understand, but it still isn't right.

I think this kind of kneejerk reaction is just silly. Really, the average man these days has like 6 inches and 30 pounds on the average woman, and most of that 30 pounds is fat. Just because you're a man doesn't give you a huge advantage. A sucker punch is called that for a reason, and a real fight will probably involve a weapon of some sort anyway. You have to either be way stronger than someone or have martial arts training to be able to safely subdue them just by pinning them down. You're basically claiming that that self defense is a moral wrong if a man is defending himself against a woman.

If you accept that a guy should shrug off slap, than you should accept that a girl should shrug off a slap of equal force (or a bit less since women usually have less pain tolerance). Otherwise you are treating them as weaker than they really are. Though we've been raised to naturally get more upset about it.

I just go with my gut instinct rather than try to follow some black and white rule. Moral rigidness is a cop out

[CountArach]

What's your basis for saying that? You aren't a feminist merely by believing that men and women should have equal rights. It implies a certain amount of social activism. And most social activists are a bit out there in my experience.

Actually I see Feminism as more of a totality of thought that involves wanting to equalise the patriarchy of society, built around a belief in the language and signal structure of society being 'phallocentric'. However, I also believe there is a line where this can be taken too far and too much can be read into it.

How are social activists at all 'out there'?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Actually I see Feminism as more of a totality of thought that involves wanting to equalise the patriarchy of society, built around a belief in the language and signal structure of society being 'phallocentric'. However, I also believe there is a line where this can be taken too far and too much can be read into it.

How are social activists at all 'out there'?

I worked with 30-40 of them for a while, they believed some crazy let me tell you. Actually this is supported by science. When they do brain scans of political enthusiasts they find that the act of rejecting something that disagrees with their view lights up the pleasure part of their brain. Anyone who places a lot of importance on their political beliefs is prone to this. The amount of things I've heard repeated unquestioningly that could be disproved by a simple google search...

[Papewaio]

That would explain why it is so hard to shift ideas if keeping them is pleasurable.

BTW do I need to google your statement to verify it too.

[Beskar]

I know quite a number of feminists, I have to say, you do feel their "wrath against men" (this is an understatement quite a lot) quite strongly, even when reading feminist blogs. Like with the door example, I was simply holding open a door, which I would do regardless of gender, yet the "feminist" who apparently wants equality targeted me out as a male and attempted to make me feel bad just because I am the sex I was born with. In one feminist blog, the write had a bone to pick with family members saying "how is the search for a partner?" going, etc, as she is living alone at 35 years old. She writes how society oppresses women and the man apparently get off scott-free. I am only in my twenties and I hear it all the time from my family, yet apparently to the blog owner, this is only a thing that applies to women.

The thing with feminism is that it is woman central, the whole name is "female" and is actively subscribed to females. This is the problem with campaigning from that angle, it is very pro-female at the expense of equality. An issue on campus at the moment is that men are elected into the student union more than women, however, the number of male applicants outnumber the female ones. So statistically speaking, it is more likely for a man due to pure maths. (What is even funnier, the make up of students here is 60% female and 40% male)

The feminist group (we have one) are campaigning to make it mandatory to have places set aside for women, is called "positive discrimination" (pretty much affirmative action). The thing is, I have a problem with this. I have no problems with females being elected, but I am an egalitarian, I believe in true equality. If you want to tackle the issue, find out why women aren't applying and if anything, convince women to apply. There is something wrong when the women are outnumbering the men, which I can agree with, but why should you bring about inequality for an "forced" equality. Also, this breeds further discrimination as you start rejecting people based "just because they are male", and now the whole thing for equality from feminism is more "females are more equal than males" as the saying goes.

[rajpoot]

Most activists, specially political ones, in my opinion are all nuts. They try to make issues out of everything....maybe they think it's smart..........
Anyway, on topic, I see that most situation where men actually hit women are when women are, what, like kidding around......however, in each case I think the woman was the one who got the worst of it.....
OK, maybe saying you never hit women is wrong....if she is coming at you with a large knife or some lethal weapon, you need to do something about it...knock it out of her hand, and maybe knock her out while you remove the weapon, so that negotiations can commence. But like it's been mentioned, most of the times it isn't so. Most cases where men hit women are like household violence cases where the man is drunk and stuff.
Far as women punching a guy to start making him behave is concerned, I think that's self defense. The woman is defending herself, so I don't think that really counts here, the chap started the whole thing after all.....
That's my two cents.........

[Crazed Rabbit]

Actually I see Feminism as more of a totality of thought that involves wanting to equalise the patriarchy of society, built around a belief in the language and signal structure of society being 'phallocentric'. However, I also believe there is a line where this can be taken too far and too much can be read into it.

How are social activists at all 'out there'?

And those sound like the type of people who would do as Beskar described. Perhaps not all of them, but more than a small minority.

As a side note I hold the door open for everyone. Am I a post-feminist? Or just egalitarian?

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That would explain why it is so hard to shift ideas if keeping them is pleasurable.

BTW do I need to google your statement to verify it too.

You ought to :D

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...073000579.html

Though really...it's something we all fall prey to. A natural instinct. I become very partisan around election time...at least for the last two. But it's not that much fun really.

[seireikhaan]

As a side note I hold the door open for everyone. Am I a post-feminist? Or just egalitarian?

Neither. You're a communist. A good capitalist charges a fee to each individual based on their willingness to pay for the service. How dare you enable those free riders.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Neither. You're a communist. A good capitalist charges a fee to each individual based on their willingness to pay for the service. How dare you enable those free riders.

I think you're mistaking Capitalism with Objectivism.

CR

[seireikhaan]

I think you're mistaking Capitalism with Objectivism.

CR

Ah, but the two are one in the same in your scenario, Comrade.

[HoreTore]

The definition of a feminist?

To me, it's a woman who wants to work.

[pevergreen]

Really, the average man these days has like 6 inches and 30 pounds on the average woman...

Jeez, I'd hope so, otherwise whats the point of her being female...

[Beskar]

The definition of a feminist?

To me, it's a woman who wants to work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

@Pevergreen

Trust you.

[Husar]

Just... no... I thought Lemur's post was a joke (is it, or am i being slow, meh I'm tired).

If she keeps punching you or whatever and it's causing you more than negligible pain, then just grab her wrist firmly next time or deflect the hit... don't hit back.

I cannot understand how some people would think it is OK to hit a woman, but then I've never understood parents who think its OK to hit their children. I don't care if they hit you, you're bigger and you should be able to take it, the fact that you are so much bigger (remember how massive adults looked when you were young, heck to a 5 year old a 6 year old is a giant) means they probably don't realise they are hurting you, and if you complain you are just being a wimp.

So what if she does some judo move when you grab her hand and throws you onto a glass table?
Oh wait, women could never do such a thing because they're all lovely, fragile creatures.

Concerning children, I slapped my sister when we were younger and my parents forbid me, for some strange reason I get along with her much better now than my mom who always complains that my sister tries to order her around. It's not just the slapping but I'm sure it helped as pain is a natural way of learning what you shouldn't do. And no, her face isn't deformed.

[Beirut]

I worry that she'll do it to the wrong guy and get her face smashed in. A harsh (and loud, especially in public) verbal rebuke is a far better strategy.

I'm sure you're right. But she's very passive so I figure if I tell her to go 100% she'll probably only go 50%, which is to raise her fist and offer the loud verbal rebuke you mention.

Besides, she's a skinny little grade seven bookworm. A punch from her isn't going to go very far. I just want to make sure to bring out the lion in her so the lamb doens't take charge. I simply cannot bear the thought that she is pre-destined to accept an abusive relationship as normal.

[Viking]

So what if she does some judo move when you grab her hand and throws you onto a glass table?
Oh wait, women could never do such a thing because they're all lovely, fragile creatures.

Indeed, the mantra "never hit a woman" suggests that if a seemingly weak male should as much as touch your shoulder, you shoud punch him for what you've got; whereas if a woman punch you so hard in your stomach that you almost collapse, and prepares another hit; you should just absorb what's coming your way.

(PS, what's missing in the mantra, is a knight and a dragon)

[Beskar]

Is a woman a dragon, Viking, in your PS?

[Furunculus]

since equality took force i treat women the same i would a man.

which is to say that i don't make a habit of hitting anyone, and threatening someone of inferior physical stature constitutes bullying regardless of gender.

[Viking]

Is a woman a dragon, Viking, in your PS?

No, she would the blond long haired noble virgin sitting helpless in a tower; trapped by a dragon. You are the knight.

Either "never hit" would mean that a woman has no means to threaten you in such a way that it would never be necessary to hit (which is incredibly naive), else, I really got no idea what it's about. OP said nothing about domestic violence, punishment etc., which is something else entirely.

[Rhyfelwyr]

So what if she does some judo move when you grab her hand and throws you onto a glass table?
Oh wait, women could never do such a thing because they're all lovely, fragile creatures.

That's not what I'm saying, but generally speaking when you have your average female and male without black belts, then

In a Public Policy class (yeah i had to take that stupid subject to fill up credits), the tutor for my group was a diehard feminist. And when some of the guys were discussing this matter, making the same points as most here, the teacher was appalled at what they were saying. Without going into fantastical scenarious as if your girlfriend is Uma Thurman coming at you with her Kill Bill samurai sword, generally speaking you should have no reason to hit a woman. The vast majority of cases of men hitting women will be drunken men beating their wives. I know there are actually cases of domestic violence when the opposite happens, in which case the man should defend himself. Obviously, if you are in serious danger you defend yourself, even if it means taking out the enemy. But in average day to day life for relatively sane couples, just don't hit women.

Concerning children, I slapped my sister when we were younger and my parents forbid me, for some strange reason I get along with her much better now than my mom who always complains that my sister tries to order her around. It's not just the slapping but I'm sure it helped as pain is a natural way of learning what you shouldn't do. And no, her face isn't deformed.

Maybe it does work, I just wonder at the mindset of people who hit children, I don't think I could bring myself to do it.

[pevergreen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

@Pevergreen

Trust you.

Eh?