Iranian Elections

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I don't see a problem with interfering,

There's these people, they call themselves Republican Guards or something silly like that. But they got sharp sticks and a bad attitude, and that counts as a problem in my book.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

There's these people, they call themselves Republican Guards or something silly like that. But they got sharp sticks and a bad attitude, and that counts as a problem in my book.

I'm talking about the USA interfering in foreign countries to help with fair elections against organizations like the Republican Guard.

[Lemur]

EMFM, if there is one, single thing we could do to wipe out this reformist revolution and unite the country behind the mullahs, you've just nailed it. "Counterproductive" doesn't even do it justice.

One of the many reasons I no longer watch cable news.

[KarlXII]

Lemur, I'm surprised you've tooken such an interest in this.

[Lemur]

I've always thought that Iran would one day be our partner in the middle east. Long history ofa middle class, respect for law, respect for education, democratic tradition ... yeah, in time they will be as good an ally as Turkey, and probably far better than Israel. All we need do it wait for the democratic forces to assert themselves.

This is big news for the world, but also big news for America.

And somebody please take out a gag order on Rep. Mike Pence, who wants to author a Congressional resolution in favor of the reformists. I call it the "Imedinnerjacket salvation bill."

"Today I'm introducing a resolution that will do just that. It will express its concern regarding the reported irregularities of the presidential election of 12 June, 2009. It will condemn the violence against demonstrators by pro-government militia in Tehran in the wake of the elections. It will affirm our belief in the universality of individual rights and the importance of democratic and fair elections. And lastly, and most importantly, it will express the support of the American people for all Iranian citizens who struggle for freedom, civil liberties and the protection of the rule of law. [...] Today I'll introduce a resolution. I urge all my colleagues in both parties to join me in expressing their support for these brave and courageous men and women."

No. Just no.

[TinCow]

I've always thought that Iran would one day be our partner in the middle east. Long history ofa middle class, respect for law, respect for education, democratic tradition ... yeah, in time they will be as good an ally as Turkey, and probably far better than Israel. All we need do it wait for the democratic forces to assert themselves.

This is big news for the world, but also big news for America.

QFT. I've been glued to this news for days, and most of my friends and coworkers only started hearing about it yesterday evening. It's been slow in coming, but it seems like a lot of Americans are finally realizing what is really going on over there. This has the makings of a serious liberalizing, reform-minded democratic revolution. If it succeeds, this could completely rewrite the entire political situation in the Middle East.

[Iskander 3.1]

TC and Lemur, you guys took the words right out of my mouth.

[Marshal Murat]

The picture of Iranian Policemen reminded me of these guys.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The picture of Iranian Policemen reminded me of these guys.

I have to say that a lot of the video reminded me of the DDR.

[Xiahou]

Are people making too much of this? Barring a complete revolution, whichever candidate wins we're not likely to see any major policy changes from Iran are we?

[Hosakawa Tito]

Hope can be infectious, but whoever does win is still just a front man for the mullahs. I just like the fact that for a change they don't have the West to blame for anything. Even the Soviet Union couldn't rule solely by fear & intimidation forever.

[Kadagar_AV]

I urge people to do their outmost to support the demonstrations...

As mentioned, not cause it will lead to great changes short-time...

However, giving the Iranian population a sence of hope, showing them they have support can in a longer perspective lead to great things in the middle east.

my thoughts go to the students being killed as we speak

[Marshal Murat]

Are people making too much of this? Barring a complete revolution, whichever candidate wins we're not likely to see any major policy changes from Iran are we?

This whole protest is a step by the "liberal" moderate Iranians, actually mobilizing and acting out against a the repressive government. Iranians are fed up with being poor, unemployed, and having their government run by a militaristic nutjob. Many Iranian commentators liken this the Revolution of 1979, this is a revolt against a "coup" by Ahjmadenijad's miltarist/populist followers. They want change, and while Mousavi isn't a Western-phile at heart, he isn't going to try and wipe Israel off the map; with the current American administration we're looking for greater dialogue and more open relations than had under previous administrations (who knows, we might see a loosening of trade restrictions). You're right in that there won't be major policy changes, but it'll relax the tensions between the two countries (US & Iran), a "reset" sorely needed to bring about greater peace and stability in the Middle East, if only the first step

To avert an escalation, Ayatollah Khamenei may have to find a way either to persuade the losers and their backers and followers that the results were genuine and fair, or to pacify them by other means - perhaps by curbing Mr Ahmadinejad or diluting his policies in some way.

The mullahs have to either curb the power of Ahmadenijad to prevent him from even usurping their powers, or have Mousavi elected.

[KarlXII]

My thoughts:

Were the elections rigged? Only Anotherdinnerjacket, God and the Iranian Government know.

Has this been an important moment in Iranian history?

Absolutely.

[Lemur]

Are people making too much of this? Barring a complete revolution, whichever candidate wins we're not likely to see any major policy changes from Iran are we?

Impossible to judge. The protesters are demanding far more than a recount at this point. Very hard to squeeze the toothpaste back in the bottle when hundreds of thousands have joined together in public opposition to the regime.

Remember that 50% of Iran's population is under 25. Change may not only be possible, it may be inevitable.

The senior cleric denouncing the results is big. Muy grande.

-edit-

National Review's Seth Leibsohn gets it almost perfectly wrong:

'The U.S. Doesn't Want to be Seen As Meddling'

That's the take-away line from President Obama on Iran. That's not going to do it. One can imagine hundreds (if not thousands) of protesters in Iran asking "Where is the U.S.? What does Obama think?"

Really? Is that what the streets full of young Iranians are asking? They're wondering what Obama thinks? Really? Then he concludes with: "This may not be Iran's Tiananmen moment, but it sure is ours." What the **** does that mean?

I've seen some stupid, wrong-headed comments on how the U.S. should behave in this situation, but this takes Best In Show.

[Kadagar_AV]

Lemur, to Seth Leibsohn's defence.. One might argue that there ARE a hundred, if not a thousand people wondering just that.

Of course, at the same time HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS are demonstrating out on the streets...

[Hosakawa Tito]

Impossible to judge. The protesters are demanding far more than a recount at this point. Very hard to squeeze the toothpaste back in the bottle when hundreds of thousands have joined together in public opposition to the regime.

Remember that 50% of Iran's population is under 25. Change may not only be possible, it may be inevitable.

The senior cleric denouncing the results is big. Muy grande.

-edit-

National Review's Seth Leibsohn gets it almost perfectly wrong:

'The U.S. Doesn't Want to be Seen As Meddling'

That's the take-away line from President Obama on Iran. That's not going to do it. One can imagine hundreds (if not thousands) of protesters in Iran asking "Where is the U.S.? What does Obama think?"

Really? Is that what the streets full of young Iranians are asking? They're wondering what Obama thinks? Really? Then he concludes with: "This may not be Iran's Tiananmen moment, but it sure is ours." What the **** does that mean?

I've seen some stupid, wrong-headed comments on how the U.S. should behave in this situation, but this takes Best In Show.

Rachel Maddow and Trita Parsi interview - first video link. "Strategery for Dummies"

[Prodigal]

Are people making too much of this? Barring a complete revolution, whichever candidate wins we're not likely to see any major policy changes from Iran are we?

Been thinking the exact same thing, as far as foreign policy goes & attitudes to the "west" it will doubtless make not one iota of difference who is in power.

From the on going protests, the sheer size of them, it certainly appears that the voters think that it would make a pretty considerable difference to them though.

The whole election stinks like a fish that's been in the sun too long, whoever decided the winner made a seriously bad call.

There are how many dead now 8? Attacks on universities have been carrying on over night, its likely to get much worse, just hope that it doesn't end in the same way as burma.

[CountArach]

Are people making too much of this? Barring a complete revolution, whichever candidate wins we're not likely to see any major policy changes from Iran are we?

Foreign policy-wise no, probably not, but why should that be a concern to us? Why should that change my judgement?