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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    On the subject of the perceived purity of the EUropean political blocks:

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    I think the Polish members are those dreadful Kaczyński twins again.
    I think the Belgian members are far-right
    I think the Latvians are dangerously close to fascism
    I think the Dutch are reactionary homophobes

    The others seem to be run-of-the-mill rural, conservative, somewhat alarmist but mainstream parties.

    Family, God and Fatherland seems to be what they all have in common. Best of luck to the British Conservatives. Remember: in the end, the only thing national parties have in common, is incompatible national narratives and interests. Pan-national national parties don't tend to last very long.
    Those EPP extremists and fascists in full:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/daniel_...scists_in_full
    José Manuel Barroso is cross because the Tories are leaving the Euro-fanatical European People's Party. Paul Waugh of the Evening Standard glosses the Commission President's remarks as follows:

    "Why is Cameron linking up with fringe parties, some members of which have strange views on climate change, homosexuality and race?"

    Hmm. Let's have a look at some of these "fringe parties", shall we? Here's the Deputy Speaker of the Polish Sejm rejoicing in a court's decision to deprive a lesbian mother of custody of her four-year-old daughter: "The court didn't bow to pressure from the aggressive homosexual lobby, which came to make a scene as usual".

    Here's a blatantly homophobic poster from last the Italian general election ("Daddy and Papa? This isn't the family we want!")

    Here's the first minister of Hesse calling for deportations: "We have too many criminal young foreigners... Germany has had a Christian and Western culture for centuries, and foreigners who don't stick to our rules don't belong here".

    (Even more blatant, incidentally, was that party's slogan in North Rhine-Westphalia in 2000, when it campaigned against the proposed immigration of computer programmers from India with the slogan Kinder statt Inder: "Children rather than Indians".)

    And let's not forget the Austrian party whose Secretary General recently called for the banning of burqas, adding: "If we allow consultations to be held in Turkish, we will one day become Turkish ourselves".

    What do you reckon? Acceptable partners for the modern Cameronian Conservatives?

    Well, here's the thing. All these parties are currently in the EPP. They are, respectively, the Polish Civic Platform, Forza Italia, the German CDU and the Austrian People's Party.

    Now you might object that I am quoting them selectively. You might protest that every party has its share of cranks and bigots. You might argue that a quick Google would reveal similar dirt on pretty well any party in Europe. And you'd have a point.

    But can you imagine what Labour and the BBC and the Guardian would be making of these remarks if they had come from parties whom the Tories want to join outside the EPP?

    Actually, you don't have to imagine. Ten years, the same Paul Waugh, then working for The Independent, wrote several reports about how the Conservatives were about to link up with "Italian neo-fascists". The reports were unfounded: no one had the slightest intention of sitting with the Alleanza Nazionale (which is whom he meant): as if its fascist roots weren't enough to disqualify it, the party was also anti-American, corporatist and Euro-fanatical. Not that this stopped the Indy running pompous comment pieces about "Tory extremism", and filling its pages with pictures of Mussolini.

    Well, guess what? The Alleanza Nazionale is now joining the EPP. I've been scouring the pages for the denunciations by all those who have spent the past decade raging against the rumours of a Conservative/Alleanza tie-up. At the very least, Paul himself, having made such a big deal out of it, ought to be congratulating David Cameron for walking out the EPP rather than allowing his MEPs to sit with "the heirs to Mussolini". Oddly, I can't find anything by him yet. I'm sure it's on its way.

    There is a serious point here, and it has to do with double standards. Being pro-Brussels is somehow regarded as an inoculation against the possibility of extremism. You can't possibly be a bigot, reason Leftie commentators, if you want to give more powers to the EU. (Actually, plenty of fascists have been Euro-fanatics, from the 1930s to the present day.) Do try to be even-handed, guys. There are good and bad people who oppose the EU, and there are good and bad people who support it. Any party can be caricatured through selective quotation. But being against Euro-federalism doesn't ipso facto make anyone extreme.
    Labour’s unsavory allies:
    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/ce...y-allies-.html
    Proinsias De Rossa MEP (Ireland)

    Born Francis Ross, Proinsias De Rossa is PES MEP for the Dublin constituency and former member of the IRA. De Rossa was interned by the Irish government in the late 1950s for his involvement in the IRA’s border campaign – a campaign which caused the deaths of six British policemen.

    Democratic Society Party (Turkey)

    Despite being outside the European Union, the Party of the European Socialists has awarded the Turkish Democratic Society Party associate membership of their party. According to the European Union Institute for Security Studies, it is an “obvious secret that [the Democratic Society Party] is connected to the PKK, the militant terrorist organisation headed up by Abdullah Öcalan. Following a KPP terrorist attack in October 2007, Labour’s very own David Miliband had the following to say: “The PKK is trying to destroy the Turkish government's efforts to improve the situation of people in the south east of the country, provoke conflict between Turkey and Iraq and damage regional stability... I call on the international community to be unequivocal in its condemnation of PKK terrorism and to support Turkey in restoring stability”.

    Self-Defence of the Republic (Poland)

    The Self-Defence of the Republic party claims to represent the interests of poor, agricultural workers against big business. It is more famous, however, for the erratic behaviour of its leader Andrzej Lepper, the recipient of two honorary degrees from the anti-Semitic Interregional Academy of Personnel Management which counts, amongst others, American white supremacist David Duke as an honorary professor. According to the BBC, his party anthem once featured the line "this land is your land, this land is my land [and] we won't let anyone punch us in the face" – somewhat unsurprising, given Lepper’s multiple convictions for assault. The Party of the European Socialists welcomed a Self-Defence MEP into their grouping in December 2004.

    Giulietto Chiesa MEP (Italy)

    A former communist party official and television journalist, Giulietto Chiesa has sat with the British Labour delegation in the Party of European Socialists since 2006. Over the past five years, his parliamentary activities have largely focussed around organising screenings in Parliamentary buildings of his 9/11 conspiracy theory film “Zero” which alleges that the Pentagon was actually hit by a missile and that the Twin Towers were really detonated by explosives placed inside the building. Turning to other international events, Chiesa stated his opinion that “Russia did precisely what had to be done” during last year’s Georgia crisis.
    Conservative MEPs will be in more respectable company outside the EPP:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/daniel_...utside_the_epp

    What about smearing them by association?

    Here is the resulting piece, which The Guardian inexplicably places on its front page. Apparently, a backbencher from PiS called Urszula Krupa co-signed a letter with a man called Jerzy Robert Nowak. Nowak, we learn, is a pundit on a Right-wing radio station. The report goes on: "The station is run by Tadeusz Rydzyk, a controversial clergyman who is viscerally anti-German, anti-Russian and anti-EU, peddling a daily diet of bigotry and paranoia which resonates powerfully with mainly elderly rural voters."

    Got that? Person X, a backbencher, co-signed a letter with person Y, who is connected to person Z who has offensive views. Therefore person X's entire party must be unacceptable. Therefore the British Conservatives are little better than fascists themselves.

    Grow up, for Heaven's sake! There isn't a political party in the world that can't be besmirched at fourth hand like this. If a Polish newspaper were to set out to blackguard any of the three British parties, they could come up with worse. Twenty minutes on Google would reveal all sorts of disagreeable remarks made by councillors or ex-candidates.

    Why doesn't The Guardian apply the same test to the EPP parties - or, indeed, to Labour's allies in the Party of European Socialists? Because it lowers the bar for Euro-integrationists. Support for the Brussels system serves as a charmed amulet, warding off any possible accusation of extremism.

    If you think I'm being unfair, consider this story. For ten years, Italy's Alleanza Nazionale has been described, not least by The Guardian, as "neo-fascist"; the very fact that the AN was outside as the EPP was presented as a reason to stay in. In fact, those of us who were campaigning to leave the EPP never entertained the slightest possibility of sitting with the AN. But this didn't prevent Euro-integrationists from fatuously citing the party whenever leaving the EPP was mooted: "Oh, so you'd rather join up with Mussolini, would you?"

    Well, guess what? The "neo-fascists" have now been accepted by the EPP. Having spent years castigating the Conservatives for supposedly wanting to sit with that party, The Guardian is now attacking them for refusing to do so. Funny old world, eh?
    do you know what Louis, i don't think your attempt to brand them as fringe lunatics holds much water, and your gut response is kind of predicable, as predicted here:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/david_h...new_euro_group

    good luck with that glass house.......
    Last edited by Furunculus; 06-22-2009 at 14:30.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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