What animals are ours to kill, and eat, and skin... etc

**Whacker** · 06-28-2009, 07:54

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

I would only stipulate that said animals be killed humanely.

CR

Agreed. As an aside, it's a bit ironic that I find the methods used to prepare kosher meats to be pretty sick and inhumane by today's standards.

**Hooahguy** · 06-28-2009, 08:00

Originally Posted by Whacker

Agreed. As an aside, it's a bit ironic that I find the methods used to prepare kosher meats to be pretty sick and inhumane by today's standards.

actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

**penguinking** · 06-28-2009, 15:57

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

Completely false. Ritual slaughter involves a knife being drawn across the unfortunate animal's throat, and it is bled to death. Which is excruciatingly painful. The animal can survive for minutes in intense pain after it's throat has been slit, and the animal is not stunned.

Of course, other animal slaughtering also uses horrific methods.

**rajpoot** · 06-28-2009, 16:18

To speak on the two ways they use to slaughter animals here, we call one of them 'halal', which penguinking has mentioned in the post above. The other is called 'jhatka', where the animal is killed with a single blow, usually involving breaking of the neck.

**Hooahguy** · 06-28-2009, 17:56

Originally Posted by penguinking

Completely false. Ritual slaughter involves a knife being drawn across the unfortunate animal's throat, and it is bled to death. Which is excruciatingly painful. The animal can survive for minutes in intense pain after it's throat has been slit, and the animal is not stunned.

Of course, other animal slaughtering also uses horrific methods.

maybe you should do a bit of research into Jewish ritual slaughter before making a comment like that.

same goes for you too, Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 06-28-2009, 20:10

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

maybe you should do a bit of research into Jewish ritual slaughter before making a comment like that.

same goes for you too, Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla.

I checked just in case, the animal must be concious and the spine must not be severed at the first cut, the two main ways of limiting suffering.

So, I am quite happy to stand by my previous statement. Modern slaughter techniques, properly practiced, are less traumatic and cause less suffering.

Edit: BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm

The idea that severing the front of the neck immidiately causes the animal to lose conciousness is unsupportable, given that we know you can starve the brain for around four minutes in a human.

**Hooahguy** · 06-28-2009, 22:14

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I checked just in case, the animal must be concious and the spine must not be severed at the first cut, the two main ways of limiting suffering.

So, I am quite happy to stand by my previous statement. Modern slaughter techniques, properly practiced, are less traumatic and cause less suffering.

Edit: BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm

The idea that severing the front of the neck immidiately causes the animal to lose conciousness is unsupportable, given that we know you can starve the brain for around four minutes in a human.

thus is the opinion of the uninformed.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 06-28-2009, 22:17

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

thus is the opinion of the uninformed.

If you have an insight to share, then do so.

**Vuk** · 06-29-2009, 02:10

May I point something out Cute Wolf? It is impossible to have this discussion the way you want without religion. Religion defines the world as something created and owned by someone else, so we need their permission to use what is theirs. If you do not believe in religion however, and we evolved or just are here, then everyone is his own, and either you believe in breaking the sanctity of somethings life or you don't. Do you get what I am saying?
I am a Christian, and God gave man full stewardship over all the earth, so I believe that it is not only mans right but also his responsibility to manage the earth. (Would a good steward of a house not dust the house? Or a good steward of the field not sow, weed, and reap?) What restrictions God puts on eating those animals is beside the point, as we are their stewards and have the right to kill them, skin them, or whatever else we want that does not violate God's laws.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 06-28-2009, 16:20

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

actually, the methods used by kosher butchers are much more humane than normal butchers.

I somewhat dissagree. Some general methods of slaughter can be vile if not carried out properly. Generally when there is too long taken between the stunning and killing. However, use of the bolt gun, or an iron hammer and the head straight off after are better than just kutting the throat.

**Fragony** · 06-28-2009, 16:33

Don't worry about the actual slaughter, they have no idea what's going on, and they are naturally not going to have any memory's of the event. It's all cleaned, no traces of blood, rules are very strict. Then they get a pin in their brains, gone. Pigs get gassed first , they are gone when their throat gets slit.. If you want to make things less miserable start with the transport.

edit:not talking kosher or halal here, that should stop not a very nice thing to do, but the usually so vocal guttmenschen are kinda so very very recovering from their last demonstration for something like more soup for Walibies or whatever justifies saying booooo.