Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

[antisocialmunky]

Now that's a good question, few thousand naked women on the battlefield...Jesus.

You'd have that one guy that would totally ruin that moment by going on the homocidal rampage. Plus, if the enemy decided to Sun Tzu it, all those women would be preloaded with all the social diseases that could be imagined. Then you soldiers would take that home and give it to their wives and their future kids and thereby undermine your population with horrible painful genital warts.

[Apázlinemjó]

You'd have that one guy that would totally ruin that moment by going on the homocidal rampage. Plus, if the enemy decided to Sun Tzu it, all those women would be preloaded with all the social diseases that could be imagined. Then you soldiers would take that home and give it to their wives and their future kids and thereby undermine your population with horrible painful genital warts.

Biological warfare ala ancient times?

[antisocialmunky]

Epic wall hax results in "I'm in your base killing you doodz"... with Siphillus

[Aemilius Paulus]

I thought we were all in agreement that the Germanic Screeching Women were a fantasy?

Actually, Screeching Women were actually sort of historical unit for the Germanic tribes. In every battle, the Ancient Germans would have the women follow them and guard the baggage/supply train (as Marius found in his campaign against Teutons/Cimbri, where the women resisted to the last drop of blood when their supply train was attacked after the Germanic defeat). During battle, as the vanilla description notes, the women were sort of "demented cheerleaders". They would cheer the warriors on, mostly though, when the men were fleeing. Then the women would taunt them and as the Roman historians noted, it worked almost every time, bringing the men back into the battle.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Biological warfare ala ancient times?

Oh, but that happened. The only problem is, I cannot recollect when or where

[Nirvanish]

Now that's a good question, few thousand naked women on the battlefield...Jesus.

http://www.umich.edu/~marcons/Crusad...n-article.html

The account may be disputed by historians but how did Amazons dress?

[A Very Super Market]

Mongols flung plague victims over the walls of Kaffa, I believe.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Mongols flung plague victims over the walls of Kaffa, I believe.

I know not of what this has to do with, but it was a common practice in Mediaeval times.

[A Very Super Market]

Yes, but they used generic illnesses, not the Black Death.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Yes, but they used generic illnesses, not the Black Death.

I am not sure if the Mongols realised the significance of that disease, but who knows?

[Watchman]

Plague like plague. Besieging armies tended to start having cases of something or other sooner or later (the usual result of an army camping in one place for an extended period), and while somewhat cavalier lobbing the resulting dead over the fortress wall was just about the most constructive thing you could do with them.

I sincerely doubt anyone paid much attention to the exact symptoms the victim had died of.

Though, in this case one has to wonder - the bubonic plague is spread by fleas, right ? Bloodsucking little critters like that are AFAIK wont to leave a dead body in very short order for greener pastures (Germans trapped in the Stalingrad encirclement noted with morbid curiosity you could tell when a man passed away from the wave of lice vacating him...), so you'd think those cadavers made for somewhat ineffective biological weapons...

[Phalanx300]

Actually, Screeching Women were actually sort of historical unit for the Germanic tribes. In every battle, the Ancient Germans would have the women follow them and guard the baggage/supply train (as Marius found in his campaign against Teutons/Cimbri, where the women resisted to the last drop of blood when their supply train was attacked after the Germanic defeat). During battle, as the vanilla description notes, the women were sort of "demented cheerleaders". They would cheer the warriors on, mostly though, when the men were fleeing. Then the women would taunt them and as the Roman historians noted, it worked almost every time, bringing the men back into the battle.

Indeed, thought I suspect that the women only joinen the man in war if there was a migration. Or probably only a few joining them to cook and other women stuff .

Though yeah, if you run from battle and see your wife screeming at you it probably terrifies you more then the enemy, rather a dead by them :P.

[Watchman]

At the battle of Yarmuk at least the Arabs had their wives along and defending the camp; then the Muslim center broke these not only succesfully repulsed Byzantine attempts to overrun the camp, but also apparently managed to rally their menfolk back into line - both by outright shaming them and by thinly veiled threats of dire and lethal domestic consequences for cowards down the road...

Is this awesome? y/y

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Oh, but that happened. The only problem is, I cannot recollect when or where

I recall reading that during the siege of Hatra by the Romans, the inhabitants flung pottery filled with scorpions into the ranks, I suppose hoping the startled creatures would sting Roman feet.

Also remember something about Carthaginians doing something similar with poisonous snakes during naval battles with the Romans. No idea on how legitimate these claims are.

[Watchman]

Where beekeeping was widely practiced, I understand people could get quite creative with the little buzzing things. Hurling nests - or bees in jars - into enemy camps was apparently a popular means to be a nuisance, and AFAIK hives were sometimes purposefully added into earth walls and ramparts to help deter assaults - the insects being rather territorial, after all.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Indeed, thought I suspect that the women only joinen the man in war if there was a migration.

No, I believe it was Tacitus who stated Germanic tribes always go to war with women, or at least in the case when they were raiding the limes.

[Phalanx300]

No, I believe it was Tacitus who stated Germanic tribes always go to war with women, or at least in the case when they were raiding the limes.

Interesting, might explain why the Germans were never eager to give up, all that complaining on their head.

[antisocialmunky]

Living with this:


Or beating up this:


Not really a hard choice...

[Phalanx300]

Living with this:


Or beating up this:


Not really a hard choice...

You make a valid point, now we know why the Germanics were so eager in combat, they had a greater fear lurking around.

[Apázlinemjó]

Those pictures explain why the Germans love the battles. Rofl.

[Ibrahim]

At the battle of Yarmuk at least the Arabs had their wives along and defending the camp; then the Muslim center broke these not only succesfully repulsed Byzantine attempts to overrun the camp, but also apparently managed to rally their menfolk back into line - both by outright shaming them and by thinly veiled threats of dire and lethal domestic consequences for cowards down the road...

Is this awesome? y/y

didn't help the men (arab or Byzantine) that the women came out with the tentpoles-very very bad news when that thing weighs a few stones

I have a drawing from osprey showing that scene-I get a kick watching the muslim soldiers running away from their wives

the women also also accompanied the men at Uhud, and at Hunayn.

hind bint 'utbah was...with issues..she chews up hamzah's liver at uhud, and now this (she lead the women at yarmouk)

[Cute Wolf]

Where beekeeping was widely practiced, I understand people could get quite creative with the little buzzing things. Hurling nests - or bees in jars - into enemy camps was apparently a popular means to be a nuisance, and AFAIK hives were sometimes purposefully added into earth walls and ramparts to help deter assaults - the insects being rather territorial, after all.

Ancient version of Scrin buzzer hives....

But at least I know the Hellenes have some kind of insecticides.... and if they are common practices, Peltastai will also equipped with spray cans....

[godsakes]

surprisingly bad unit:

Ambakaro Epones (Lusotannan Elite Medium Cavalry)



cost: 3804
upkeep: 951

these guys only seem to be good for skirmishing and moping up routed units (completely usless at charging), it's a role done just as well by light cavalry units half the price (numidian cavalry)

for just slightly more you can get a unit of Iberi Lanceari (Iberian Heavy Cavalry)



cost: 3815
upkeep: 954

AFAIK these are the heaviest cavalry you can get in western europe

[DaciaJC]

cost: 3815
upkeep: 954

AFAIK these are the heaviest cavalry you can get in western europe

And you consider them to be a surprisingly bad unit?

[godsakes]

And you consider them to be a surprisingly bad unit?

of course not

i featured them to show what better units your money could buy over the Ambakaro Epones (Lusotannan Elite Medium Cavalry)

[DaciaJC]

of course not

i featured them to show what better units your money could buy over the Ambakaro Epones (Lusotannan Elite Medium Cavalry)

Ah, indeed.

[Fluvius Camillus]

I wonder if in India, any commander ever took advantage of a male elephant's musk. Assuming the the enemy's elephants were males, well a female in heat would have been an interesting tactic. I know of one instance where someone had all his cavalry use mares in heat to force the enemy to charge. It did but the battle ended up in a wash since both cavalry forces went crazy and didn't accomplish anything.

Obviously the humor quality of a hundred crazy horny elephants would truely be a sight to behold.

You mean...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Do you really want to see this?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I warned you...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok here it is

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

BEHOLD!

No, I could not resist.

~Fluvius

Edit: I censored this because of the forum policy.

[athanaric]

surprisingly bad unit:

Ambakaro Epones (Lusotannan Elite Medium Cavalry)



cost: 3804
upkeep: 951

these guys only seem to be good for skirmishing and moping up routed units (completely usless at charging), it's a role done just as well by light cavalry units half the price (numidian cavalry)

I think you mistake the purpose of the Ambakaro Epones. Like two other very similar units, the Taxilan Agema and the Hippeis Tarantinoi, they are very effective in what they are supposed to do (aside from chasing routers):
These guys are commando troops. They are meant to take out the enemy's most valuable units, i.e. generals and elephants. They can defeat most other cavalry in melee (except cataphracts or Hetairoi of course), plus they are dedicated elephant-killers. They can even hold their own against infantry for some time. By contrast, Iberi Lanceari suck at elephant-killing and chasing of routing enemies.

[Aemilius Paulus]

plus they are dedicated elephant-killers.

You mean their javelins, right? Because they would not last a second in melee. And mounted skirmishers always have very little ammunition, not to mention 50 men is smaller than the usual 120 for levy skirmisher units (on large unit size of course).

Bottom line, they are not effective against elephants. Cantabrians are a better choice. Or any skirmisher unit. Or any falcata-and-soliferra unit of the Lusotannan roster (they have tons of high-attack, AP javelins plus decent armour and good attack with their AP weapons; on top of that, they have quite a few men per unit and are cheap - possibly best infantry of EB).

[A Very Super Market]

Besides which, if you're playing as the Lusos, you won't see any elephants but the one unit Carthage gets at the beginning.