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Thread: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

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    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Is obesity seen as a partisan issue? I'd always thought it was one of those side issues where people did not line up on party lines, left vs right. If anything, I reckoned the left might be more sympathetic to the overweight, on anti-discrimination, affirming diversity type lines while the right might be more critical on personal responsibility, tough love type arguments. However, I wonder if - in the US at least - the opposite is true. Perhaps obesity is seen as a "nanny state" type issue of the left while the right disregard it on libertarian grounds (maybe even venturing into "climate change denier" type ground of scepticism over the science or defence of America's high consumption life-style).

    The background to this question is a strange experience I had watching Fox News for the first time. As a Brit, I had heard - largely from the Simpsons - that Fox news was right wing but only recently caught a glimpse of it when channel hopping the other night.

    I mainly watched a rather bizarre news program (what came after was an embarassing attempt at a right wing "Daily Show"). In the news program, a middle-aged male Brit presenter (this was possibly Fox's Euro version or something) did four short interviews. They were almost pantomime in their bias.

    The two with right wing interviewees were cringingly fawning. First there was a lawyer lambasting Sotemeyer for being " a shoo-in, but for big government" ("Oooo, you saved the best for last" cooed the interviewer). The second was with Bill Kristol on whether Palin was right to say she might to campaign for conservative Democrats. (Oh boy, even Palin is not right wing enough for Fox).

    By contrast, the other two interviews were "attack" style, imitating a "shock jock" type of badgering and disrepect. An interview with a black woman Democratic senator was appalling in its rudeness ("You madam, are just buying votes with your bail-out money, admit it!" repeated verbatim for two minutes, while the poor Democrat just tried to smile politely.)

    But the other "attack" style interview was odd, in that it was with a young white woman who had written a book on obesity and who supported airlines refusing to put morbidly obese staff on as cabin attendants. I thought the woman seemed a rather harsh, self-satisfied Ann Coulter type who might naturally hang out on Fox. But she did seem to have an undeniable point - I could not imagine a size 22 woman actually being employed as a airline hostess. However, the interviewer really slammed her, on the grounds that mocking the obese was disgraceful (again, repeated verbatim for two minutes - the interviewer was a real mental gymnast). He treat her even more harshly than he did the Democratic senator - and she had to put on the same bemused smile - and so that made me wonder if there was some ideological sub-text I had missed. Was there? Or did the interviewer just have a plump wife or something?

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    But the other "attack" style interview was odd, in that it was with a young white woman who had written a book on obesity and who supported airlines refusing to put morbidly obese staff on as cabin attendants. I thought the woman seemed a rather harsh, self-satisfied Ann Coulter type who might naturally hang out on Fox. But she did seem to have an undeniable point - I could not imagine a size 22 woman actually being employed as a airline hostess. However, the interviewer really slammed her, on the grounds that mocking the obese was disgraceful (again, repeated verbatim for two minutes - the interviewer was a real mental gymnast). He treat her even more harshly than he did the Democratic senator - and she had to put on the same bemused smile - and so that made me wonder if there was some ideological sub-text I had missed. Was there? Or did the interviewer just have a plump wife or something?
    Good for that girl. Employers ought to have the right not to hire unfit (literally in this case) people.

    But who was the interviewer? I don't watch Fox News, so I don't know, but the guy sounds like a fool (i.e. Sean Hannity)

    CR
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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Obesity has moved from a health issue to a political and policy issue. Five stakeholders:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    There are several stakeholders in the legislative arena when considering obesity and health policy. Key stakeholders include the government, the food industry, health care providers, employers, and the middle class.



    The government, the major payer of Medicare and Medicaid expenditures has a concentrated interest in holding down the rise in medical expenditures. Also, since obesity has become a visible public issue, both the administration and Congress realize the potential political advantages of addressing the issue. Congress may not care about the exact number of calories that people should consume, or the ubiquitous presence of "junk food" advertisement and vendor machines. But Congress does care about how much political capital may be achieved from legislation. By calculating which legislative positions provide the greatest amount of political support essential for reelection, legislators will propose and support laws most effective to achieve this goal.



    The food industry recognized the threat of potential liability and successfully lobbied for a law to shield them from such action (Library of Congress, 2003). The industry’s approach to policy change is to alter but not diminish daily food consumption through changing the national dietary guidelines, and stressing and placing increased emphasis on physical activity. The recent publication of the Dietary Guidelines for Americans (United States Department of Agriculture, 2005) was preceded by heated debates on balancing recommendations for caloric restrictions and activity. Food makers have donated heavily to members of Congress. In 2004, food processing and sales companies gave $4,636,835; the dairy industry donated $1,398,911; and the sugar interests gave $1,379,484 (Mishra, 2004), far outweighing public health interest group contributions. While nutritionist, scientists, and other health advocates promote the need to "detoxify food environment," the food industry places stress on physical exercises, upon which higher levels of calories will be expended.



    Health care providers have dual interests: prevention and treatment. Numerous professional organizations have issued position statements related to obesity. The International Council of Nurses (1999) position statement, "Reducing Environmental and Lifestyle-related Health Hazards," advocates that "nurses and national nursing associations should play a strategic role in helping reduce environmental and lifestyle-related health hazards by…promoting a positive lifestyle, including exercise, stress management, accident prevention, weight maintenance, and nutrition education that is sensitive to socio-economic status and cultural beliefs" (International Council of Nurses, paragraph 1). The National Association of School Nurses (2004), "Position Statement on Overweight Children and Adolescents," includes recommendations for screening, primary prevention, advocacy, legislation, funding, and research. The American Academy of Pediatrics issued a major policy statement urging the restriction of soft drinks in the nation’s schools (Markel, 2004). Meanwhile, successful efforts to obtain insurance coverage for obesity as a diagnosis may increase the demand for health care and lessen uncompensated care.



    The role of employers and the middle class in the policy debate is linked to the willingness of these segments to accept a tax burden that may be seen as related to a behavioral and moral issue (Smith, 2004). As the health insurance costs of obesity continue to rise, employers need to choose between decreasing profit margins and passing back costs to consumers through higher premiums, thus decreasing take home wages.



    There are two discordant sides in terms of the multiple legislative options on the table: one is that government has a limited role, and the other that it has a significant one. Supporters of the first view insist that overweight and obesity result from daily lifestyle choices. They believe adults should not only make positive choices for themselves, but also supervise their children in terms of nutrition and physical activity. They feel the government’s role is to provide health information and facilitate behavior changes through the support for education, research, and community-based interventions. Proponents of a more active government role argue that overweight and obesity result from a complex interplay of behavioral, environmental, and genetic factors, and that the government needs to undertake broad policy initiatives ranging from regulating the food environment and prescribing physical activity and nutrition for children, to supporting urban planning for increased physical activity through transportation and public safety provisions.
    Interesting is the food industry. Not unlike the oil industry, their lobby in Washington is to get Americans to consume as much as possible. This they do by buying 'science' and government policy. People are blown up to huge sizes as much as cars are transformed into SUV's.

    (Americans eat an awful lot of food. Strike for the South consumes three to four times my amount of calories. And stores it in muscles he gains while working out. Personal choice? At any rate, the US food industry actively lobbies in Washington for support of 'consume, and excersize' As ever, people are more part of a culture than they may be aware of. Strike as much as me)


    As for Fox - Fox is not rightwing. Fox is unmitigated hardright.
    Need to sell oil-guzzling SUV's? Fox will deliver. Fox 'supports' the troops who die in some godforsaken desert to make it happen.
    Need to sell torture? Fox delivers. See '24', the television series. 'Patriotic' Americans who rat their own son to have him tortured. Son shouts a bit, then shrugs it off showing torture is no big deal. Propaganda that would make Kim Young-Il blush with envy.
    Need food-guzzling obese people? Fox delivers. Obese are the new Blacks.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    kinda funny, in the short time we had fox chanel we called foxy because of the excessive amount of porn, different fox for different country I guess.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    But... we don't have "a black female senator"....

    Sounds like the sort of gibberish you could expect from Beck's, Hannity's, or O'Reilly's shows though. Maybe the "Brit presenter" was a fill-in for one of them on that particular night.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Good for that girl. Employers ought to have the right not to hire unfit (literally in this case) people.
    Unless it's because of logistics(ie. the cabin crew won't fit in the plane....), I really can't see why on earth a persons looks should determine their job. Especially not jobs like cabin crew, where looks are completely irrelevant.

    Qualifications should determine whether a person gets the job or not. Not looks, heritage, wealth, sex, race or religion. Period.
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 07-21-2009 at 07:24. Reason: Removed bad language and provocation
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou View Post
    But... we don't have "a black female senator"....
    Good point - maybe Congresswoman? But you don't have too many of them either. She seemed not too old, fairly knowledgeable and pleasant, but maybe I completely messed up on her position.

    Maybe the "Brit presenter" was a fill-in for one of them on that particular night.
    I may also have been wrong about the Brit part - he sounded like the kind of accent-less presenter we get on ITN or Sky, but could well have been an American without a marked accent. The chap whose show followed the interviews and who seemed to be attempting (and failing) a right wing Daily Show routine was Beck. I haven't been able to place the one who actually did the interviews (a website of Fox news presenters seems to show them almost all to be female).

    Unless it's because of logistics(ie. the cabin crew won't fit in the plane....), I really can't see why on earth a persons looks should determine their job.
    The guest who supported the airline was arguing that a morbidly obese person would be a hindrance if there was a need for an emergency exit of the plane.

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    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    As far as I know, there's way less obeses in France than in the US, despite a much more developped 'nanny state'.

    It all comes down to the food lobby. As long as fast-food, McDonald's, and eating at midnight will rightly be regarded as utter garbage in France, we'll be spared of too much obesity.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    French are the most slender folks of europe. Obesity is alower class problem, less lower class in western europe, except the uk.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou View Post
    Maybe the "Brit presenter" was a fill-in for one of them on that particular night.
    He was filling in for Clifford Banes who was currently hunting sharks in Guatemala.


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    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Obesity and Food Culture. An interesting article. I must leave for work so I will comment later.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    if the french have such great taste for food then what are they doing in french restaurants, rather bland menu they all serve the same crap. Restaurants are much better here, both in quality and diversity. The only acceptable place I know in Paris is the grand louvre and I have six places vastly superior in my street alone.

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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    As Jo Brand famously said. "Inside every fat person ther is a thin person trying to get out, because they ate them".

    My particular favourite one was the T shirt I saw on an obese bloke. It read; I beat anorexia!

    Not sure on this one. The libertarian in me says, so what! It's their choice what/how much they eat. The fascist in me says wire up their teeth and keep them away from melted butter.

    As for the aeroplane thingy. Ask yourself this one. Would you like to share a row of seats with someone who weighs in at 25 stones? Blimey, it's bad enough travelling 'cattle class' as it is you've hardly enough room to twiddle your toes.

    The Fox news interview sounds bit like a python sketch.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    My particular favourite one was the T shirt I saw on an obese bloke. It read; I beat anorexia!


    There is definitely a cultural problem with obesity though, reflected as Frag said, mostly in the working classes. When you're working long days on a shipyard or in a coal mine, you can get away with going to the chippy every night. But when the big industries disappeared and now those ex-workers sit in their house all day watching cable TV, then fast food starts to take its toll on them.

    The government should help to tackle such cultural problems, nanny state style I guess. But I'm libertarian when it comes to the businesses, nobody should get told who to employ, it's their business, not the governments. Fat people are just not ideal for certain jobs, and I guess working in such a confined space as a plane would be one of those examples.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    What can the goverment do that effectively combats obesity? Im guessing absolutely nothing.

    Personelly I fall into the catagory where im eating 5000-6000 calories a day but I do my best to run/work out/sweat it all out. I love me food.

    my particular favourite one was the T shirt I saw on an obese bloke. It read; I beat anorexia!
    Nah, its "I wupped anorexia's ass"
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    Member Centurion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    There is no British host on Fox News. Maybe they have a separate European Outlet. Sounds like O'Reilly though. He has a very obnoxious interviewing style, i watch but sometimes i end up screaming at him.

    Obesity is bad in America. Really bad. however, i don't think the governemnt shouls control my weight. It is perceived as being a left issue currently because obama has been trying to tax sugary foods ie sodas, candy, etc. with a sin tax. Much like liqour and cigarettes. I think it is bull and persons weight should be a personal issue. I am currently trying to gain weight for football and i eat thousands of calories a day but i'm still skinny. You really can't judge the issue without looking at things like metabolism and such. True, fast food doesn't help but there are other factors to be included into the equation.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    I don't think this can be solved and you should just stop trying. Healthy lifestyle is promoted enough as it is, I really can't think of a European checking out how many calories a certain hamburger has, an inquiry would certainly get you some funny looks. What more can you do, beats me. Some will eat that crap, Darwin at work.

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    Member Centurion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Amen, it is personal so why try to alter that which is. You can try to count your calories and all that (beep) but it isn't going to change the way the lord made you

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    Amen, it is personal so why try to alter that which is. You can try to count your calories and all that (beep) but it isn't going to change the way the lord made you
    What I mean is that Americans are already much more obsessed with healthy lifestyle than we are, nobody here knows how much calories a big mac has, nobody cares. It's crazy how many Americans are seriously obese, something went wrong somewhere. Don't ask me where and when no idea.

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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    I think there is something to the fast food argument. And the misconception there is that, yes we know how many calories something has but we don't care. The whole problem stems from our on the go lifestyles its not as relaxed as Europe. For example, historically a European gets around 30 more minutes to eat lunch than the average American. This is without factoring in things like siestas in Spain. The whole problem can be connected to rapid industrialization, a catapulting of our world dominance over the British empire in the 50's and even the HIGHWAY system.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    You hardly see any fat people in New York, all tight like a drum. Can't be just American culture.

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    Member Centurion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Aha there you go. New york is similar to europe in that it is highly urbanized. Most people walk everywhere. In the vast majority of the rest of america people drive and drive and drive and drive.... well you get the picture. for example, it takes around thirty minutes to get anywhere from where i live. and there are millions of americans who live that same way. On tuesdays and thursdays my schedule is so packed that i can ONLY eat fast food. i dont have enough time to go home.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Unless it's because of logistics(ie. the cabin crew won't fit in the plane....), I really can't see why on earth a persons looks should determine their job. Especially not jobs like cabin crew, where looks are completely irrelevant.
    I wasn't talking about looks, but about prohibiting the morbidly obese. Extra weight means extra costs for a plane, and significantly higher difficulty moving around a plane. In short, because of their weight they are less able to perform their duties.

    Qualifications should determine whether a person gets the job or not. Not looks, heritage, wealth, sex, race or religion. Period.
    For certain jobs employers can discriminate on looks because of what's called 'customer bias' - in that customers don't want to see ugly people, so if you hire them they won't patronize your business. Mostly applies to places like Hooters.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    Aha there you go. New york is similar to europe in that it is highly urbanized. Most people walk everywhere. In the vast majority of the rest of america people drive and drive and drive and drive.... well you get the picture. for example, it takes around thirty minutes to get anywhere from where i live. and there are millions of americans who live that same way. On tuesdays and thursdays my schedule is so packed that i can ONLY eat fast food. i dont have enough time to go home.
    That make sense, my clogs are my main method of transportation, and ze bike. In the NY metro you are really walking the whole distance anyway it's like a pitstop.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    For certain jobs employers can discriminate on looks because of what's called 'customer bias' - in that customers don't want to see ugly people, so if you hire them they won't patronize your business. Mostly applies to places like Hooters.
    .....Which is just plain sexist, and there's no way that should ever be allowed.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    And now fragony you can see the beauty.... and the inner evil of living in such a large country. what once made us tough outdoors men, has now turned us into lards (not saying fat people aren't tough).

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    And now fragony you can see the beauty.... and the inner evil of living in such a large country. what once made us tough outdoors men, has now turned us into lards (not saying fat people aren't tough).
    Oh I like America, ownage by proxy I guess. Like comming there anyhow, nice place.

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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Well the Netherlands are nice and i find the people there to be more centrist politically than the rest of Europe.

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    .....Which is just plain sexist, and there's no way that should ever be allowed.
    Do you know what "Hooters" is?



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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    .....Which is just plain sexist, and there's no way that should ever be allowed.
    So, employers shouldn't be allowed to hire the people who will help their business the most?

    And btw, this is the Hooters I'm talking of; http://www.hooters.com/home.aspx Probably not exactly work safe.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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